Women leading Friday mixed gender gathering prayer... Some "Rooh Parwar" highlights..

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Re: Women leading Friday mixed gender gathering prayer… Some “Rooh Parwar” highlights..

I dont think so… Koran is open to interpretation. If her interpretation is one in which women have the right to lead prayers then by all means.. We need more women to speak up and take back back their religion from the clutches of men.. After all, why shouldnt a women have the right to say the prayers? Why would god be so sexist?

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Re: Women leading Friday mixed gender gathering prayer… Some “Rooh Parwar” highlights..

Somebody like Hazrat Aisha (r) who is responsible for a sizable chunk of Hadeeth and of course LED men in to battke in the batlle of Camel (Jang-e-Jabal)…

Or, Umm Warraqa? A custodian of the Quran in Holy Prophet days who was permitted to lead prayers in her house by no one else but the Holy Prophet…Any thoughts ppl??:slight_smile:

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Re: Women leading Friday mixed gender gathering prayer... Some "Rooh Parwar" highlights..

fartguru faizan medina sabzi mandi ki definition islam dayna band karo.....scholars know much more then u...

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Re: Women leading Friday mixed gender gathering prayer… Some “Rooh Parwar” highlights..

Helloooooo…good to hear from u buddy…what happened last time, couldnt take the pressure thats why u ran off? Bhagoray. Now you are back for more of that bad medicine? What r u some kind of masochists? You like leather and whips dont u gayjee? u naughty naughty gayjee. One thing is for sure, You are such Jaali Guy, your snide remarks only expose your lack of knowledge and more so your lack of ettiquette.

Like last time gayjee…here is a little something for u, an english proverb which fits your badboodaar antics…

“Higher the monkey climbs, more he exposes his …” :wink:

So keep it up gay no.1 Look the crowd is goin wild for you, they all are singin

“Hey, hey look at the monkeee”

So stop this monkying around dude, you’r takin all the attention away from us boring, serious type ppl…:rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: Women leading Friday mixed gender gathering prayer... Some "Rooh Parwar" highlights..

beta fartguru....i dont mind u kid....mummy dadday walay mazak say koi faraq nahi parta...by the way,sabzi mandi ko tum logon nay "lay" kar kharab kardiya;)........by the way,whts new innovation coming from barelei or sabzi mandi faizan bidah haha

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:smiley:
mummy dadday?? what was that? Gayjee u seem a wee bit confused:confused: maybe u got bamboozled elsewhere also…we know u like it that way…:whistling

Folks (excluding my buddy gayjee) please do not mind this, our friend (Gaygee) here has some bad habits so he likes to “hog” the attention. Please ignore him and stay focused on the serious material presented above…:slight_smile:

Here is a couplet from that famous sufi poet Bulley Shah:

" The Brahmins frighten their patrons into false belief that their ancestors are in pain
The remedy too they prescribe And thus the Puja began"

We all love u buddy (gayjee) not to worry and stay afloat, u know what else floats rite? :wink:

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but didn’t you say you don’t believe in a a God. so why the hell care about Islam, when you are an athiest yourself ?

Me Back
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[quote=“PyariCgudia”]
Here we have Mukhtaran Mai’s rapists getting off the hook by the Pakistani justice system, and here we are making a 7 page thread about a woman leading a prayer and some lady’s hair showing while she reads namaz.

But God forbid some lady with some alternative interpretations of the religion stand up in front of others.

I respect your opinion but are you saying that this is NOT an important issue??? Its just a shock to me that how easily some people can say we have more imortant things going on in this world to even discuss what is happening to our religion, the foundation of our being???

As for that lady Dr. Amina… if this is her interpretation of Islam she needs to keep it to herself!!!

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Re: Women leading Friday mixed gender gathering prayer… Some “Rooh Parwar” highlights..

Ok look. The Quran does not SPECIFY the exact details of Salat. We learn all this from the teachings of Prophet Muhammad (saw) as in the Hadiths.

NOT A SINGLE ONE of the hadiths state that there is a women leading prayers before the presence of other males. It also states that the women should stand in the back while reading namaaz in a group with males/females mixed.

Simple reasons as to why a woman can/should not be an Imam:

  • Women have their periods. The whole community does not have to be aware of this, and if they notice that a women is not able to lead namaaz, they will know.
  • Women should not be bending down before men. I understand that it is in the middle of namaaz, but this can serve as a distraction for the men.
  • A woman is not supposed to raise her voice loud enough for men to hear it (i.e. singing). This means that women are not supposed to do the Azaan.

Look, I know I haven’t cited any of this stuff, but I will explain more as soon as I get a chance. (and as soon as I find a Hadith or some form of support stating that women may not lead prayers.) As for right now, I leave you with my word that I have personally learned this information from Hadiths that I have read.

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Taken from Chapter 20 of “Endless Bliss Fourth Fascicle” : Namaaz in Jamat.

It is written in the marginal notes of the explanation of Nur-ul-izah: “Being an imam requires fulfilling six conditions.” The namaz is not performed behind an imam who is known not to have one of these conditions:

1 - To be a Muslim. He who disbelieves the fact that Abu Bakr Siddiq and 'Umar Faruq were Khalifas or who does not believe in the Miraj or the torment in the grave cannot be an imam unless he has an explanation.

2 - To be at the age of puberty.

3 - To be discreet. A drunk or senile person cannot be an imam.

4 - To be a man. A woman cannot be an imam for men.

5 - To be able to recite at least the Fatiha-i Sharifa and one more ayat correctly. A person who has not memorized one ayat or who cannot recite with tajwid the ayats he has memorized or who recites the ayats melodiously cannot be an imam. 6 - To be without an excuse. A person who has an excuse cannot be the imam for those who do not have an excuse. Excuses are: continuous bleeding at some part of the body, wind-breaking or urination, repeated pronunciation of the letters “te” and “fe”, lisping, that is, pronouncing the letter “sin” as “se” (a letter which is pronounced with “th” sound) and the letter “ra” as “ghayn” (that is, voiced velar fricative instead of post-alveolar frictionless continuant), being without an ablution or being smeared with najasat in excess of one dirham, and being with bare awrat parts. A person who has an eye sore becomes a person with an excuse if he cannot control his tears. Any liquid coming out of the ears, navel, nose, nipples because of some pain is an excuse if it issues continuously. The same is the case with blood, filth, yellow liquid produced by the above-named parts or by a cut or sore even without pain. Those who share the same excuses can be the imam for each other, and a person who has one excuse can be the imam for a person who has two. In the Shafi’i and Maliki Madhhab, a person who has an excuse can be the imam for those who do not have an excuse. [A person who makes a masah on the ointment of a wound or on a bandage, or who has crowned or filled his teeth and therefore imitates the Shafi’i or Maliki Madhhab, is not considered to have an excuse]

There’s your proof. Approved and all. :k:

China Grill
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Hi there, thanks for coming back on this issue…

PLease make a note to yourself, this is not part of the Quranic text. As you have noted above: "It is written in the marginal notes ". These explanations and many more like these are the personal opnions (Fikahi) of the individual writing the Tafaseer. Iam not saying that it is a figment of their imagination, all Iam saying is that it is not the word of Allah or the Prophet. These explanations or footnotes are derived from various sources researched by the writer, then again determined by his schooling or literature being used.

As said before: Is there any evidence in words of the Holy Quran which categorically states that women cannot lead prayers? There is none, thank god for that, cause if that was the case then our Holy Prophet would have been guilty (:naooz: ) of allowing Umm Warraqa to lead prayers at her house in Medina. There is no dispute with any school of thought on this issue, it is well accepted fact, though the reasoning/explanations/excuses can differ.

Once again, this issue has been blown out of proportion cause it violates our traditional teachings, not the Quranic edicts. :slight_smile:

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oh yes tht is faizan bidah opinion....haha

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:bukbuk:
Gayjee, I know u r feelin left out, but seriously u need to back off a little, cause ur embarrassing yourself. Dude, try salvaging whatever (if any) self-respect u may have left, cause ur mindless one liners have exposed your lack of knowledge, tolerance and ettiquettes. If u insist on being the court jester, by all means, ga..then again here is a little somethin forya: “Virtue is its own reward”

Stay in touch and try somethin new next time, seriously its getting to b a “drag”..u sud know better (Drag Queen)…:wink:

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Like I said before, the Quran DOES NOT state specific guidlines for namaaz. It states only the basics, such as why we pray, whom we are praying to, how often we pray, what happens if we dont, etc. If you have decided to only go by what the Quran states and not by the interpretations of the Hadiths of Prophet Muhammad (saw), then you might as well just do everything your own way. The Quran itself does not fully explain how to do namaaz. Does this mean that we will pray in the simplest manner or make up our own way of praying just because the Quran itself did not explain it?

So, what I’m basically trying to say is that these are interpretations of the Hadiths that we are also to use as guidelines.

Also, like I said, Islam in the Prophet’s (pbuh) time is what we should be following by. None of the women ever led the namaaz with men praying behind them in any of the accounts. That tells us something.

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Phatima1, this is common knowledge which you have stated. Ofcourse being Muslims we seek guidance after the Quran from Ahadith and if further guidance is needed then we depend upon the Mujhtahideen.

Our dialogue started with your statement (Pls note, purpose is only to put things in context, nuthin else) :

Originally Posted by phatima1
DUDE ARE U KIDDING ME?!?! SHE’S MAKING A MOCKERY OF THE QURAN!!!:smack:

Its safe to assume now that there is no such Quranic injunction, thus there is no issue of making a mockery of the Quran. Similarly there is no authentic source of Hadeeth which categorically states that women cannot lead prayers.

Please, refer to my post where I have given the example of Umm Warraqa and Hazrat Aisha (r).

Umm Warraqa, was a Ansari women who was authorized by the Prophet to lead prayers in her house in Medina. Since the Muazzin was a man, it is assumed that he prayed behind her.

Hazrat Aisha (r) story is well known how she led in the battle of Camel. Point, when she can lead Ashra Mubashra into battle and they followed her why assume that women cannot lead in prayers?

CJ wanted to be PM & agencies to supply info on other judges
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Because praying before God is not a matter of life and death, while fighting in battle is. You’d be amazed at how quickly a person’s mind can be altered when they are looking or hearing a woman.

An Imam is someone who must be in contact with the entire Muslims community at all times. They must be able to read namaaz most of the time (unless they are sick), and there are many other things about being an Imam that I obviously don’t know.
A women is not able to be an Imam because she has her monthly periods, thus she is to refrain from even coming into the hurram. Also, when a women is pregnant, she will not be able to fully carry out the job as an Imam.

And yea, ok you proved me wrong. I should not have written “She’s making a mockery of the Quran”. I should have written “She’s making a mockery of Islam”. How’s that sound :slight_smile:

P.S. Maybe I’m not the best person to be able to fully support my side of the story. I’m just an average kid in highschool. I really don’t know nearly as much about Islam as there is to know. :bummer:

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Highschool??? Yet you did a terrific job of defending your views, hats off Phatima1.
:slight_smile:
Highlighting your Quran comments was to put things in reference to context, only. Idea being that sometimes things are said in the heat of moment, which sud not be said. Its always better if you realize your mistake which corrects any imsperceptions.

Since you take so much interest in your religion which is a very good thing, I would suggest reading more on Islamic history, keep an open mind and always ask questions. One final thing, there are many misperceptions about the status of women in Islam which are the product of male scholars adding their personal biases of their times and conditions.

Hadeeth: Women asked the Prophet why they cannot participate in Jihad and taste Shahadat, his answer was that they have their Jihad during delivery of children.

Prophet never had a problem with women having periods, he used to spend time with his wives and would find peace and solace in their presence and from there would go and lead prayers.

Please do not take my posts as a criticism of your views, but just someone who wants ppl to listen and question before passing judgement. Thks:)

Why doesn't anybody answe my threads?
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^^ Nah, I'm not taking it as a criticism at all. :). As a matter of fact, I enjoy arguments like this :). First one to find significant proof from a reliable source, wins! :D..haha i'm such a nerd!

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^^ May the best person win..best of luck:)

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^^Bring it on :devil: I got all the time in the world :hehe: LoL!