Women For Sale in India

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I know it is more of a cliche for India but i remember when on honor related incident occurs it goes up to 100 posts

WOMEN FOR SALE

Fined, humiliated and sold to the highest bidder

By Deepak Tiwari/Khandwa

In the end it took just one voice to shatter the myth of a civilised society. When Gulab Bamaniya, a deputy ranger with the Madhya Pradesh forest department, complained to Khandwa District Magistrate Manu Shrivastava that his wife Devaki Bai, 30, had been sold to another man for Rs 5,000 at a tribal panchayat, no one believed him. However, the stunning revelation by Devaki herself, in front of an additional collector and the media, brought to light the prevailing medieval and barbaric practices of the Bhil tribe of Gowari village in Madhya Pradesh where women were auctioned in the presence of thousands during Panchganga, a panchayat held to hear matters of dispute within the community.

Peace after the storm : Basanta outside her parents’ home in Gowari village, Madhya Pradesh, after the police rescued her

The women were asked to lower their pallus and stand with stones on their heads; and a few men were tonsured and beaten with shoes as punishment by their community. The incident took place at a function where state Fisheries Minister Hiralal Silawat was present as chief guest.

On January 3, Vikram Mangtya More, 27, the sarpanch of Arood village, Naval Singh, 28, a teacher, and a village kotwar Lakhanlal Mala, 38, organised a panchayat called Bhil Samaj Sudhar Samiti (Bhil Community Reform Committee) in Gowari. “The declared objective was to reform the community by infusing new thoughts and getting rid of age-old customs through education. But the hidden plan was to cleanse their community by bringing back Bhil girls who had married into other castes,” said Vijay Shah, a tribal legislator from Harsud constituency of Khandwa district who headed the fact-finding committee sent by the leader of the opposition, Babulal Gaur, after the incident took place.

The Panchganga began with great fanfare. Minister Silawat was invited to address the gathering. He announced a Rs 2 lakh grant for the construction of a dharmsala for the community and even instructed the tahsildar of Pandhana to allot the necessary land. Even as the minister addressed the crowd, 20-year-old Basanta and Devaki were weeping, trying in vain to attract his attention, but their voices were drowned in the noise of the Panchganga.

Young Basanta, who was sold to Kharbarh of Paabai village for Rs 8,000, said, “When the minister was having food I was crying of hunger because the panchayat had starved me for 48 hours for not obeying their orders.”

Devaki and Basanta were among 20 other Bhil women who were forcibly brought to the Panchganga. Devaki had married Bamaniya, who is from the Barela tribe, 10 years ago when her first husband Jagdish of Pichodia village left her. They have a son who studies in the mission school in Pandhana, 20 km from Khandwa. Devaki’s fault according to the Panchganga: she had remarried outside her community.

The Bhil community, numbering about one million, practices endogamy (marrying within a tribe). They live mostly in Rajasthan, Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh and Maharashtra but the beauty of their women often attracts men of other castes, said advocate Ragvendra Parashar of Pandhana.

Bhil tribals from 52 villages gathered for the Panchganga and families who were reluctant to attend were issued an “order” akin to warrants and some panchayat members were sent to fetch the women, some of them forcibly. The women were brought to the Panchganga and their disputes settled. But the five most unfortunate-Savitri, Laxmi, Sushila, Devaki and Basanta-were presented before the crowd which bid to buy them.

Savitri and Laxmi were punished for marrying outside their caste. Since no one bid for them, they were slapped with a fine and made to stand for six hours with a huge stone on their heads.

Sushila’s husband Ragunath had deserted her five years ago, and she was sold to Raju Bhil of Nihalwadi village for Rs 7,000. Raju handed over only Rs 500 at first, but the organisers extracted the remaining amount later. Sushila, however, had no complaints-she had got a new lease of life.

Basanta was the worst sufferer. Her only sin: she did not want to go back to her husband Champalal Bhil whom she had married 11 months ago. After listening to her case (the same morning that minister Silawat attended the gathering) the Panchganga members fined her father Bhagwan Bhil Rs 10,000 for not sending her back to her husband. Poor Bhagwan mortgaged two acres of his land to raise the amount. He was then asked to leave the venue. That’s when Basanta was put on sale.

She was deprived of food while everybody feasted and was made to put her arms on the shoulders of her buyer and stood that way for hours.
BASANTA
SOLD FOR: Rs 8,000
BUYER: Kharbarh
SIN: Deserting husband

She stood ashamed in the midst of the crowd avoiding the lustful eyes and lewd smiles of the men. She told The Week later that her head was uncovered and her sari lowered suggestively by the Panchganga members. “I was made a Draupadi,” she said. “But this Draupadi was asked to stand on a sharp stone with a huge boulder on her head.” Basanta said the police was present when she was being auctioned.

“She was mentally tortured and her womanhood exposed in the worst manner before Bhil males so that the community could get maximum mileage out of it,” raged Shah.

Waharlal Barela, who lives adjacent to the panchayat venue, recalled: “We heard the bidding through the loudspeakers. The auctioneer was shouting, Paanch hazar… paanch hazar… paanch hazar ek… (5,000… 5000,… 5000 one…)'.” Waharlal being a Barela tribal was not allowed to enter the Panchganga arena.

Many people offered their bids but Kharbarh Bhil, 21, was the highest bidder. He bought Basanta for Rs 8,000. But she refused to go with him. She cried. She shouted. She tried to inform the minister, but failed. As punishment for not obeying the Panchganga decision, she was made to hold up one hand and stand on one leg. She was deprived food while everybody feasted. Then she was made to put her arms on the shoulders of her buyer and stood that way for hours before going on to the more rigorous chastisement of balancing a stone on her head.

Devaki too revolted against the decision but her buyer, Lakhan, of Barkhar village was adamant. When he pulled Devaki into his arms she turned violent. Her behaviour was severely condemned. The punishment meted out: standing the whole day with a huge stone on her head.

“The money collected as fine and sale of women was used for the feast and allied expenses of Panchganga,” said the tahsildar who was present at the function.

Collector Shrivastava, however, said that women were not sold or auctioned and that tribals have a practice of paying dopa, bride price. Though it comes under the dowry act and is a cognisable offence, he said, it happens in our society. “We were not informed of the Panchganga in advance. I learnt of it only when Bamaniya came to me. In fact, nobody knew this would happen,” said Shrivastava to The Week. “Devaki went to the Panchganga expecting that judges would fine her as is the custom of community panchayats.”

Burdened: Devaki stood a whole day with a huge stone on her head

DEVAKI
SOLD FOR: Rs 5,000
BUYER: Lakhan
SIN: Marrying an outsider

However, Shah did not agree. “Bride price is different; here girls were produced in front of a crowd and bidders were asked to come forward. It was an ultimate insult to womanhood, they were placed like objects on sale.” Shah felt that the minister’s presence implied a “silent approval” of the government for the barbaric act. He felt that since the minister praised such sammelans (congregation), and because it was election year, organisers went full throttle unleashing their brand of barbarism.
Shrivastava was quick to defend the minister. “He is a minister of this district and was invited by the organisers. Till the time he left nobody complained about the incident.”

Devaki was rescued from the clutches of Lakhan by the police and is in hiding with her husband who is on a one-month leave. Police also recovered Basanta from Kharbarh’s house and has charged him with rape. Basanta is back with her parents. A shocked Bhagwan, who reported the matter to the police after the panchayat was called off, said it was the first time in the history of the Bhil tribe that people were fined and women auctioned. Her mother Sagarbai said that they will marry her to some other man soon. Marrying and remarrying is a common practice among tribals.

According to Khandwa’s Superintendent of Police G. Akheto Sema, 22 people were arrested in three separate cases under section 366, 368, 149, 506, 342 & 498 of the IPC. The main accused are sarpanch Vikram More, Naval Singh, Pratap Bhil, Hari Bhil, Sitaram Bhil and Lakhan Bhil. They allegedly paid the ‘bride price’ of Rs 5,500 at the 'auction.

The Madhya Pradesh Women’s Commission too got into the act: chairperson Savita Inamdar directed the Khandwa collector and the superintendent of police to submit a detailed report on the incident.
Thanks to the timely complaint by Bamaniya, a repeat of the incident was averted. Bhil leaders had planned to organise a panchayat in Pandhana village where 30 Bhil girls are married to Muslims, four to scheduled castes and two to Kahchi Patels. They wanted to bring back the girls to the Bhil fold by, what else, but an auction.

Interview/Hiralal Silawat, fisheries
Contd in the post below :smooth:

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:smooth: :smooth:

minister, Madhya Pradesh
The media is wrong
When contacted on his cell phone, Fisheries Minister Hiralal Silawat, who is currently touring Khandwa district, replied to a few questions and then hung up abruptly. Excerpts:
Were you present at the Panchganga where women were auctioned?
The organisers had been requesting me for the past one month to inaugurate the Panchganga meeting. I told them I was unable to do so because of other engagements. But I was in Khandwa on January 5, so I went there.

What happened there?
What the media is writing is not correct.

What did you do there?
In my speech I appealed to the Bhil community to join the mainstream by obeying the law. I told them not to do anything by which they would take the law into their hands. I asked them to report disputes to the police.
You also gave some money to the Panchganga.

No, I did not give money but announced that I would give Rs 2 lakh from my area development fund to build a dharmsala for the Bhil Samaj Sudhar Samiti. Since the place is part of my constituency I was right in doing so.
Theirs is a clan spirit

Legend has it that the Bhils were great archers; they are even mentioned in the Ramayana and the Mahabharata. They served as warriors in the Rajput army and helped ward off the invading Marathas and Mughals. The most famous of the Bhils was Tantya Mama, a desi Robin Hood who fought the British. With such a rich heritage, it is hardly surprising that the Bhils are a proud and closed community.

Bitter humiliation: A man is beaten on his tonsured head as punishment

The feeling that their community-especially women-was being targeted by outsiders has heightened in recent years, according to Jai Nagada, a senior journalist in Khandwa. “When our land cannot be transferred to a man of another caste, how can we tolerate our women going to them?” the tribals ask. (The law stipulates that the land owned by a tribal cannot be bought by a non-tribal.)

When Naval Singh, a government school teacher in Kusumbia and secretary of the Bhil Samaj Sudhar Samiti, suggested bringing all the Bhil girls who were living with men of other castes back to the fold, the samiti welcomed the idea. (Singh’s wife had eloped recently.) District Collector Manu Shrivastava, however, says that this was not on the samiti’s original agenda; rather, it focused on positive things like prohibition and education for tribals. But, he says, as the reform movement is fundamentalist in nature, it probably approved of the ghar vapsi (back to the fold) programme.

Vikram Mangtya More, chief of the samiti and a village sarpanch, decided to hold a four-day Panchganga in Gowari village from January 3 to address the problems. Word-of-mouth messages were passed to 52 villages in Khandwa and Khargone districts. The Panchganga, where senior members of the community act as judges, has a festive atmosphere. Rice and dal were prepared for over 2,000 people every day. A policeman kept vigil outside the grounds to ensure that no outsider entered.

The Panchganga is a strict affair, where even judges found guilty of biased judgments are punished publicly. Punishments include being beaten with shoes, standing for hours on end with a huge stone on the head, tonsures, and fines. The money is used for the welfare of the community.

Hurt egos need a healing touch

By Madhu Kishwar

Most of us edu-cated elite tend to be extremely ill-informed about the customs, traditions and the contemporary life situation of the diverse people and communities in our own country. We are better informed about the happenings in New York, but remain oblivious of the life of people in our own backyards. With typical colonial mindset, we tend to treat the poor and uneducated in rural areas as a lesser species still outside the pale of civilisation. The impoverished and neglected sections of our population appear on our intellectual radars only when they are involved in conflicts or are victims of what appear as sensational and gruesome human rights violations.

At such a time, reporters make a rushed visit to the village or basti, get the police and official version, talk to a few ‘native informants’ and file a hastily written story, often based on poorly digested facts with a great deal of moral harangues thrown in for good effect, and forget about the whole business as yet another sensational story catches their eye.

Yes, women are sold every now and then in contemporary India. Sometimes, destitute mothers from hunger-infested villages sell off their children when they have nothing else left to sell or mortgage. But only those who belong to very impoverished families and broken down, margin-alised and despised communities are subjected to such humiliation. If we are not there to help them combat grinding poverty, what business have we to feel outraged when in times of acute distress they sell off their children or women of the family?

Often certain customary practices are either misunderstood or misrepresented by researchers and journalists who have less than superficial knowledge of the customs of our diverse communities. Till a few decades ago, it was a common tradition among many Hindu, Sikh and Muslim communities that the groom’s side made gift offerings to the bride’s family for the privilege of taking away a valued member of their family. However, because the British were used to the practice of dowry in their own culture, they misinterpreted the custom and called it ‘bride price’. This term is a pejorative one and implies ‘sale’ of a daughter. Many communities have switched over from the more benevolent ‘bride price’ to the less-favourable-for-women-tradition of dowry, thinking dowry giving is a mark of higher social status.

Women are sold every now and then in India. Sometimes, destitute mothers
sell off their children when they have nothing else to sell.

Due to poverty and cultural deprivation the practice has eroded and deteriorated in quality and content just as the custom of stridhan has come to be seen as ‘groom price’. The newspaper report about the ‘auction’ in MP indicates that the Bhil villagers could at best be accused of practising a distorted version of the tradition of the groom’s family making gift offerings to the bride’s family at the time of marriage rather than in ‘sale’ of women to the highest bidder.

The story underscores another sad reality. Marginalised communities find that only caste and community identity offers them a measure of security in a world where the state machinery has failed to provide even basic security. These groups cling to their community with far greater fervour than the wealthy and elite. The only way they can retain a measure of ethnic cohesiveness is to ensure that its members, especially women, do not marry outside the community. Women, here, are subjected to more rigid forms of control.

Whenever a community feels trampled upon by outsiders, as would be the case with Bhils and many similar marginalised scheduled caste, and schedule tribe communities, the confidence and self esteem of the men get shaken so thoroughly that they become tyrannical towards their own women. Men from such communities react with great fury against their women when they see them opt for sexual or marriage alliances with oppressive ‘outsiders’.

This doesn’t only happen in India. In a Hollywood film Ryan’s Daughter an Irish village punishes and humi-liates a woman of their community by publicly tonsuring her and driving her out of the village because she fell in love with an officer of the hated British Army positioned in that area. But the movie was not out to prove how ‘uncivilised’ and ‘cruel’ were the Irish people, it provided an empathetic glimpse of the fears and anxieties of a colonised people who feel threatened.

In our country, we tend to treat such events as mere law and order problems. The police has booked the Bhils under several sections of the Indian Criminal Procedure Code. Many will rot in jail for years and get further impoverished fighting long court cases. This will make an already marginalised group with a deep historical sense of being wronged, feel even more embittered.

While I do not endorse the actions of the Bhil panchayat, I would not recommend handing over such sensitive issues to the police. When a community, rightly or wrongly, sees its izzat at stake, when a community is distorting its own culture because it feels under attack by hostile ‘outsiders’ such situations need the intervention of sensitive social and political leaders capable of assuaging hurt egos, providing a healing touch as well as bringing about an honourable consensual settlement of the conflict.
(The writer is an activist and publisher.)

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these pancahayatas served a purpose and still do i suppose but man they need to be regulated like anything otherwise should be abolished.

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Repulsive. Makes my blood boil to read this type of stuff. I have noticed that panchayat practice has been given more khuli-choot during BJP time than before... yeh saab itney haad tak in jahilon key haat mei nahin tha. :(

Madhu Kishwar is good. I am surprised to see her still around. She is right, police will only complicate the matters more in communities where tradition is so deeply-rooted. Plus, police kaunsey acchey hain. She always has this positive note to her, which in reality is never the case. Ministers and political leaders can never be sensitized. They feed off the ignorant beliefs of the masses, and further inculcate them with hatred.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ana: *
Repulsive. Makes my blood boil to read this type of stuff. I have noticed that panchayat practice has been given more khuli-choot during BJP time than before... yeh saab itney haad tak in jahilon key haat mei nahin tha. :(

Madhu Kishwar is good. I am surprised to see her still around. She is right, police will only complicate the matters more in communities where tradition is so deeply-rooted. Plus, police kaunsey acchey hain. She always has this positive note to her, which in reality is never the case. Ministers and political leaders can never be sensitized. They feed off the ignorant beliefs of the masses, and further inculcate them with hatred.
[/QUOTE]

Ana :)

I know Madhu Kishwar publishes new letter MANSI & is an activist .How does she get her name KISHWAR ????I know its totally muslim female name unless its corrupted name of somthing else ???Do you know ABOUT her any more ?

What i get pissed about is the HOLLIER than thou attitude of India.Everything they point is outside particularly to their neighbour.Just b/c America is selfish not to call RSS VHP Shiv sena terrorist b/c they dont do against America ,thses Vhp RSS are no less than Jaise or Lashkar clans inKashmir !!!:rocket :

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The whole of South Asia has some serious problems in these outlying places. It's not a matter of India v Pakistan I'm afraid.

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Naqshabandi, there was a time when she used to write for the Illustrated Weekly of India, when Pritish Nandy was editor and still a decent chap. Uptil the Roop Kanwar case I was involved with activism, after which slacked off, so I know a lil bit about her work. She was once the high priestess of Indian feminism and yes, she is the editor of Manushi, based in New Delhi. About her name, I believe she changed her name to reflect that her fight was not on religious dividing lines but for one and all, tho I am not entirely sure, it has been a long time.

Anyway, India, as well as I have seen in Pakistan as well, you will find people with hindu as well as Muslim names, it does not make them any less human my dear. A christian by the name of Abdul Lateef living in Gulshan-e-Iqbal, does not translate into a masjid-goer just like Raja Patel from Gujrat could easily be a Muslim.

I think you have the holier-than-thou attitude incorrect. It goes both ways, across borders. However yes, you are right that the policeman of the world, the US, does not concern itself with RSS and Shiv Sena much, because it does not see India as a threat to its national security. White Americans incorrectly perceive India to be just a Hindu paganistic nation, and they constantly try to entrench this view in their own people as well as whomever they can influence across the world. That's why India, though it has as many Muslims as Pakistan, in fact more just by sheer population size, is always thought of in the west as a nation of hindus. That's entirely false. It is true that it is majority hindu, but still it's a diverse land, home to hindus, muslims, sikhs, christians, and it has been able to maintain this diversity with relative ease, atleast until Hindutva has started to gain adherents.

In a way I'm glad the US has its nose out of India, because that country has enough of its own headaches to deal with without having to be host to an outsider. You should visit it sometime. It'll help dispel your notions atleast to a significant degree.

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Ana ,

I was just C U R I O U S & nothing else.Its llike i dont object to any of the situation you said.I am aware of Non muslims with ARABIC names in Pakistan & Mid east Tarq Aziz ,Soho Arafat …:k: :k:

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LOL. I am just on tenderhooks today. Chill.

Waisey u r right about the militant Hindu elements not figuring in international watchlists, but I don't really equate them with freedom fighters in Palestine of Kashmiri home grown fighters. The difference is that one group is completely religiously-motivated, but in my mind the Kashmir issue has by now been reduced to less of a struggle for religion and more of a fight for control of land and self-determination, ie. unadulterated politics. In that case, I feel Kashmiris have a valid issue but Hindu hate-mongers don't.

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Ana …

point taken about Chill

No i am not classifying by there causes or aim objectives by VIOLENCE .It is violence that America is labelling &BUT ONLY WHEN IT IS DIRECTED TOWARDS AMERICANS.:dixsi:

So the moral legitimacy of terrorism is less b/c if you label violence in general as terrorism what ever the nobel or ignobel the cause may be THEN RSS VHP in India with there threat against minority christian & Muslims is VERY MUCH TERRORIST organization it only is not labelled :confused :

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Obviously NB.

What is the value of one (white) American life to one life of any other race? That's a taken for granted statement ya.

Why would the US bother about an organization that is not a threat to Americans? Hence, no labelling for it. Whatever you or I say about RSS etc etc as being violent and thus terror-inducing groups, if the official sanction of the United States of America is not on that specific term "terrorist group" for that country, no one cares. Yes, the moral legitimacy is undoubtedly less in that case, when you look at it from an international level. Microscopically, people living in those regions know and feel fear, and they won't hesitate to call these organizations terrorists.

HOWEVER, this thread was about women's rights in rural areas. How did we get off on an RSS tangent? Regardless of what the ruling party is, or what terrorist groups are running around, women's welfare in India has always been given low priority and will continue in this way, even though India has numerous women politicians - many famous, a few infamous, so a good mix - who ought to be doing more to help alleviate the burdens of underpriviledged women. Social activism in India is so closely tied to political organizations that the good done by one group ends up being cancelled out by the activities of the other. It's a deplorable state of affairs. Bureaucracy alag.

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Ana

I think RSS or Whole Sanghi Parivar is relevent b/c with millions of miserable problems like the above what is the point of Hindutva.First india should give Roti Kapda Makan then we will talk about Hindutvs=a otherwise as Indian i ll chage you with SEDITION ANARCHIST & TRAITOR

UNPATRIOTIC doesnt mean Pakistani or muslim my defenition of Unpatriotic is any one HINDERING THE ACHIEVEMENT OF NEEDED GOAL OF MY COUNTRY .

Hindutva only has 30% of support .It is the Jig Saw of politics that these moron dumbA$$,& Dunce like Murli Manohar joker Advani Liar & Incompetent Atal Behari has usurp the power by Illegal means .

While 10 000 peole are dying onnthe streets of Delhi to Lucknow ,that is shame that cant be compensated by the might PURVASI functionthey helfd for NOT even INdian now indian origin Trinidian ,Fihjian or South African ..is that why govt is to CATER TO EXTRA TERRIRIAL NATIONAL ..THAT IS BENG TRAITOR UNPATRIOTIC & NON NATIONALISTC.:nook: :nook:

Rss Vhp ShivSena ,Bajrang Dal Bjp Jan Sangh Hindu Maha Sabha ,thses are ALL SAME do you realise that AND NONE OF THEM except Shiv Sena represent people .YET they go door to door garnishing vote for Bjop or Shiv Sena .ITS all illegal & unethical .

WE are not talking of the hypocrtical chargingof Muslim ascAnti National EXTRA TERRITORIAL OYALTY FOR HAVING religion which originated in Mecca …

What happen to the same extra teritorial point when they seek NRI who are extravterritorial .Why is that not Anti National NOn Bhartiye ???

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It is not anti-national non-bharti because those groups have money, contacts and the capability to invest in India. BJP has atleast 88% of backers in NRI, esp. the US crowd.. always has had, and looks like that will continue.

Roti Kapda Makan - which era r u living in? That was Indira Gandhi days. This is ABV days. Nowadays the only person making any sort of clamor for that slogan is the empress of snore-powers Sonia Gandhi, and even she's getting hoarse.

Yes, u r right, it should be the first and foremost priority of any nation to see to it that its people have the basic needs met on a daily basis. But fact is, the ruling classes are too busy with their power games to attend to these needs. If wishes were horses... And besides, even in Gandhi days, it was just an illusionary ideal. False claims by a failed party. In today's date give me a concrete solution, show me how it works. But no one has any good enuf solution. Modi had it, simple and clear cut. People saw results, Hindutva saw results.. and they're going to go with it. Ultra-right wing hindu factions have much less than 30% support I think.. something like 12% stable across states (but I'm not sure). The fact is, in strained economic times like today, religion is always attractive. Whatever works, goes. It's going to take them all to the rut but for the short-term they're happy. Yes, it's all disgustingly unpatriotic, but who is to tell them that?

Coming back to the original topic, Panchayati Raj was Rajiv Gandhi's gift to the nation. He brought it back to try and empower women in rural areas, and it lead to decline of state control over tribal affairs. It's plain wrong and has got to go.

14

Ana
I amin touch with latest deveopment & i visit india 1-2 yrs now 2-3 yrs

India has riches onlyin the hand of few .That has been indian society that probably made it the target of invasion & plunderer .

Look at those on the footpath ofCalcutta & thousands dying in a few day .When tens of thousands death is undiscussed & with blunt cionscience they call themselves 6000 yrs civilization is that what 6000yrs civilzation has to give 50 yrs after havinng indeppendence & home rule>???

Actually the 10% brahmin matter most then the khshtriya then sudra then the 400 million sudra .So all life isnt Equal is unwritten but well understood unwritten cinstitution :rocket:

15

wb azad munnay aka FYI aka Fatimah etc etc.

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NB, what u say is true. Yet 6,000 years of civilization is not the today, here and now. Our history, our heritage... it's all only given us grand ideas, not concrete solutions. Poverty is not just on the footpaths of Calcutta, but Bombay, Delhi, Chennai... everywhere. Like I said b4, caste system rules, and it's very sad indeed. :(

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by queer: *
wb azad munnay aka FYI aka Fatimah etc etc.
[/QUOTE]

Hahahaha Q! I knew that looked way too familiar.

18

how pakistan is different. if different it would have been such a dynamic
country for the past 1400 years after islam. you mean to say we are backwards by 1400 years? how about bangaldesh? you blame india
for its poverty?

19

Well according to everyone in India b/c P.M.aid"they(muslim) are trouble everywhere "

They are convert from the most lowest of lowest hindu sort of recjects of societies of Hindu Sudra untouchables Dalits ..right

Muslim hix is 1400 yrs as you say

But tell that dying under the the Neele Chatri Roof in 6000 yrs hinduism has not been able to change his condition how long more you expect to take

Atleast poor Bangladeshi knows he has just passed atmost or even less than 1400 yrs so if he dies poor is b/c he was born3/4 period too early to reap the islamic progress benefit …

But for your Hindu time is running out for that poor dying in cold :nono: