Woman To Be Caned For Being Raped By 8 Men

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Re: Woman To Be Caned For Being Raped By 8 Men

One of the two has to be true. Either icon is correct. Or shamraz. The latter has provided specific examples. While icon simply states no not true. For an outsider it would appear shamraz has icon beat. By more than a nose.

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Re: Woman To Be Caned For Being Raped By 8 Men

Lets be a little honest !

You posted the Hudood Ordinance, I mentioned it to you that the law does not mention anywhere that failure to produce 4 victims leads to jailing the victim. TALK ABOUT THE LAW NOT A NEWS PAPER ARTICLE.

So here is Hudood Ordinance again, word by word.

The Offence of Zina (Enforcement Of Hudood) Ordinance, 1979.
*
10.** Zina or zina-bil-jabr liable to tazir.**
*[TABLE]

                  *(1)*

                  * Subject to the provisions of section 7, **whoever commits zina or zina-bil-jabr which is not liable to hadd, or for which proof in either of the forms mentioned in section 8 is not available and the punishment of qazf liable to hadd has not been awarded to the complainant, or for which hadd may not be enforced under this Ordinance, shall be liable to tazir.                      ***

               
               
                  
               
               
                  *(2)*

                  ***Whoever commits zina liable to tazir shall be                         punished with rigorous imprisonment for a term which may extend                         to ten years and with whipping numbering thirty                         stripes, and shall also be liable to fine.                                                                        ***

               
               
                  
               
               
                  *(3)*
                  *Whoever commits zina-bil-jabr liable to                         tazir shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which                         [SUP] [14](http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/legislation/zia_po_1979/ord7_1979.html#14)[/SUP][shall not be less than four years nor more than][SUP] [14](http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/legislation/zia_po_1979/ord7_1979.html#14)[/SUP]                         twenty-five years and shall also be awarded the punishment of                         whipping numbering thirty stripes.                      *

[TABLE]

*[SUP] 15/SUP *
* When zina-bil-jabr liable to tazir is committed by two or more persons in furtherance of common intention of all each of such persons shall be punished with death.

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Re: Woman To Be Caned For Being Raped By 8 Men

I think it will be more suitable to state ur argument about discussion, rather than being a happy clappy.

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Re: Woman To Be Caned For Being Raped By 8 Men

Lets be a little honest !

You posted the Hudood Ordinance, I mentioned it to you that the law does not mention anywhere that failure to produce 4 victims leads to jailing the victim. TALK ABOUT THE LAW NOT A NEWS PAPER ARTICLE.

So here is Hudood Ordinance again, word by word.

The Offence of Zina (Enforcement Of Hudood) Ordinance, 1979.
*
10.** Zina or zina-bil-jabr liable to tazir.**
*[TABLE]

(1)

  • Subject to the provisions of section 7, **whoever commits zina or zina-bil-jabr which is not liable to hadd, or for which proof in either of the forms mentioned in section 8 is not available and the punishment of qazf liable to hadd has not been awarded to the complainant, or for which hadd may not be enforced under this Ordinance, shall be liable to tazir. ***

(2)
***Whoever commits zina liable to tazir shall be punished with rigorous imprisonment for a term which may extend to ten years and with whipping numbering thirty stripes, and shall also be liable to fine. ***

(3)
*Whoever commits zina-bil-jabr liable to tazir shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which [SUP] 14[/SUP][shall not be less than four years nor more than][SUP] 14[/SUP] twenty-five years and shall also be awarded the punishment of whipping numbering thirty stripes. *

[TABLE]

*[SUP] 15/SUP *

  • When zina-bil-jabr liable to tazir is committed by two or more persons in furtherance of common intention of all each of such persons shall be punished with death.

The Ordinance CLEARLY states that 4 victims are required for giving punishment of “hadd”, if they are not available, then perpetrator can still be punished under “tazir” for upto 10 years imprisonment and 30 lashes.

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Re: Woman To Be Caned For Being Raped By 8 Men

What is a happy clappy. When two people have diametrically opposite views, am I not allowed to weigh in based on the arguments presented?

Happy?

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Re: Woman To Be Caned For Being Raped By 8 Men

Southie, don’t take my post the wrong way but you do know these kind of posts are the reason some people take objection with your posts?

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Re: Woman To Be Caned For Being Raped By 8 Men

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Re: Woman To Be Caned For Being Raped By 8 Men

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Re: Woman To Be Caned For Being Raped By 8 Men

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Re: Woman To Be Caned For Being Raped By 8 Men

Can we get the title of this thread changed. it is wrong and misleading.

The poor victim will NOT be canned for being raped.
This seems a cultural problem and not some thing related to islam.

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Re: Woman To Be Caned For Being Raped By 8 Men

Oho Southie you mistook my post the wrong way :smack: I don’t think I questioned your intentions anywhere. I applaud your sincerity in standing up for what you believe is right and like you yourself say; I have done the same in the past.

I have had healthy debates with everyone this thread from time to time, be it in in PA or Life1. I was just saying how sometimes even good intentioned messages can be construed as being offensive.

I apologise if you think I was questioning your moral stance on this topic, but I don’t think I was.

Anyway, on the topic, personally till people actually learn what religion is there is no point having religion involved in state issues especially when the justice system and its subjects have no real understanding of what it is they’re applying.

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Re: Woman To Be Caned For Being Raped By 8 Men

Sorry about that Shak. I misunderstood your post.

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Re: Woman To Be Caned For Being Raped By 8 Men

perhaps the thread is created to mislead!

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Re: Woman To Be Caned For Being Raped By 8 Men

A supporting document where clarification is given that a woman is NOT punished under hudood ordiance if she fails to produce 4 witnesses.

OBJECTION:-
In huddod ordinance it is not clear what to do when a woman complains about zina-bil-jabr and NGOs are stating that when they can’t bring four witness, they are punished under Qazf (false accusation of Zina.)

ANSWER:-
First of all, you should know that the Hudood Ordinance is concerned with only three things: (a) Definition of the crimes; (b) Evidence required for crimes; and (c) Punishment for the crimes. The issue of how the case is to be investigated, or whether women are to be put in jail, or how the FIR is to be dislodged falls outside the scope of the Hudood Ordinance.
So, at the first place, it is the Code of Criminal Procedure (Act V of 1898) and Police Major Act which deals with the issue of how to deal a complaint of Zina-bil-Jabr.
Secondly, under the Hudood Ordinance, a woman who complains of Zina-bil-Jabr, even if she can’t produce any evidence, she is not a criminal. Section 6, sub-section (1) of the Offence of Zina (Enforcement of Hudood) Ordinance, 1979 reads:

“A person **IS said to commit zina-bil-jabr…”

Contrast this with Section 4 of the same Ordinance:

“A man and woman **ARE said to commit Zina…”

So, at the first place, the woman is not a criminal, but, let me describe the whole process. A woman who complains of rape, her explanation is taken as the First Information Report (FIR) and the police investigates the issue. Usually, the person who was accused is arrested and investigation is done; medical is also done. The case is heard in a court of Magistrate and during the hearing, the woman can describe the whole story; if she feels shy, she can take two female persons for moral support. She is also asked if the one arrested is the same person who raped her; if she says “Yes” then the lawyers start questioning the accused.
Under the Hudood Ordinance, there are two types of punishments: (a) Hadd; and (b) Tazir. If there are four male Muslim adult sane pious persons who witnessed the act of penetration and they testify in the court, then the accused if he is a Muhsan shall be stoned to death and if he is not a Muhsan, he will be awarded punishment of 100 stripes alongwith death penalty, if the court deems fit. [It’s impossible that the court wouldn’t deem it fit; after all, four people saw him!] If there are four witnesses not available, but, the accused confesses the crime himself and does not resile from his confession, he will be liable to the aforesaid punishment.
If the above conditions of evidence are not met, but, the court is satisfied that the crime stands proved on other forms of evidence (like DNA test, medical evidence, etc.), then Tazir can be awarded to the accused. This is mentioned clearly in Section 10 of the Hudood Ordinance and example of cases where this happened are Kalimullah Case, Abdul Rehman Case of Karachi, etc.
The tazir punishments are as follows:
(a) Gang rape: punishment of death to everyone
(b) Rape by one person: 25 years imprisonment, whipping numbering 30 stripes, fine
(c) Kidnapping: Life imprisonment alongwith 30 stripes
… and there are punishments for other sexual crimes too.
So, by now, you can see that a woman is not expected to produce four witnesses and the criminal can be punished even if there is no witness, but, the crime stands proved by medical examination, etc.
The last issue is that if a case of rape is filed and heard, but, there is not enough evidence available to prove the crime, then what will happen? The case will simply end without punishing anyone. But, it must be noted that if such a case ends without the charge being proved, there are two possibilities:-
(a) The allegation of rape was actually a lie; or
(b) The allegation may or may not be true, but, there is not enough evidence available to prove it or disprove it either; in such a case, there has been “loss of evidence.”
NOTE HERE THAT THE OFFENCE OF QAZF (ENFORCEMENT OF HUDOOD) ORDINANCE, 1979 ONLY GIVES WOMEN, NOT MEN, THE RIGHT TO FILE A COMPLAINT OF QAZF. THEREFORE, IF A WOMAN COMPLAINS RAPE BUT CANNOT PROVE IT, SHE CANNOT BE PUNISHED, EVEN IF THE ACCUSED WANTS TO PUNISH HER**
**