I saw a black muslim brother hitting on a girl in a subway the other day, then he put his feet up on the pole dug up a quran from his book bag and started to read. I didnt see him perform any rituals that I was told to perform, like washing my hands or kissing it etc..
I transliterated quran for my PDA and I wear my PDA on my belt, maybe I should start wearing the PDA on my head so it is in a high place.
The rituals that you are talking mamo are by pakis only, I was toldthat Arabs / wahabis dont follow the same care as we indian muslims do.
yes verizon, we already know you have the quran on PDA, we heard you the first time.
An thank God im not an Arab,..or a wahabi for that matter. :- D
Aside from that, wudhu is required for touching the script is it not? The rest are not rituals, (theres no fatwa on it), they are a sign of respect. An am pretty sure arabs dont let the Quran anywhere near the loo, or leave it lying on the floor. :halo:
If you wanted to CREATE something awful to blame on Americans, a smart Muslim would create something guaranteed to be a horrible and visceral response from every Muslim. Is that correct? Is anybody dismissing the fact that these could be false accusations aimed at discrediting the American Military? Sure seems to be an effective tactic if one chose to LIE on the theory that a LIE as part of an overall Jihad is acceptable. Sort of like killing Iraqis is acceptable as part of Jihad. Nobody even entertains this possibiliity, that evil Muslims are trying to lie and dupe you?
Some of my compatriots might be “miffed” by the riots; however, I am more or less indifferent to them. As I said, if Afghans want to riot and pillage their own Mosques and burn their Qurans, and blame Americans for it, so be it.
I’m not “indifferent” to the abuse of the Koran. I’m simply putting that wrong into perspective. The Quran is sacred to you. The Torah is sacred to the Jews. The Bible is sacred to the Christians. I think I’m pretty balanced in my views on this one. I said that I wouldn’t string up a bunch of Palestinians for using pages of the Bible as toilet paper either.
Sacred books, don’t breath or bleed. They are not living things. If one gets destroyed, you can print another one tomorrow. Sorry. I don’t see the sacred books as being as sacred or more sacred than human life. I believe that if Allah, Jesus or God was faced with a choice of seeing the Torah/Quran/Bible destroyed or seeing a human life taken, he or she would opt to save the life not the book. Further, I really don’t believe that Allah/Jesus/God would waste a lot of time pondering which was more precious.
If you find that disrespectful to Islam, what can I say. I won’t apologize for my viewpoint.
The physical aspect of the Koran seems to be treated like the Golden Calf that got Moses all PO'ed. More attention to the words inside the book rather than the book itself and we might be better off.
utd: Thats prolly cuz it is the word of God, hence its the words inside that we revere. what else do you think we respect the Quran for, its decorated covers?
Balanced in a lopsided way methinks. Am sure most practising christians or muslims would not take the palestinian actions lightly. I for one wouldn’t. Its not just the actions is it, its more the ugly sentiments behind it.
I agree, which is why i said we shouldnt be comparing two either. Two wrongs dunn make a right. if you remember, you brought up the Imam vs Quran argument yourself.
The only thing i was objecting to was the initial reason you gave for undermining the soldiers actions, and not showing any outrage on the abuse of the Quran, merely due to ‘some’ muslims acting as lynch mob and then going on to accuse all of us to condoning murder and and suicide bombers and what not. it was totally unnessarily and uncalled for.
If your stance has now changed to you being indifferent because you dont hold the religious books as sacred, then thats fine, i dont have a problem. However, it doesnt take much to understand how others might feel when something sacred to them has been violated. IMO, being ‘indifferent’ to intolerance is not really something we should be proud of.
^ Ma: You’re reading someone else’s posts not mine. I never minimized the flushing of the Quran (if it happened) ** BECAUSE ** Muslims acted like a lynch mob. I minimized it because, IMO, it’s…well…minimal … when compared to all the other great evils in the world. Depriving the soldier who did it (if he did it) of a fruit cup seems like a balanced punishment to me. It’s not my disrespect for the Quran. I’d have the same attitude and think the same punishment fit if it were the Bible or the Torah.
You write: “it doesnt take much to understand how others might feel when something sacred to them has been violated.” You’re right. And that you and Faisal might be mad and angry and post those feelings on a site like GS is entirely reasonable and appropriate and I understand that. But it’s way beyond my understanding how this incident/non-incident got people around the world (and even here) so hot and bothered and led to riots, burning and killing.
As to some Christians not taking Palestinians wiping themselves with the pages of the Bible the same way as me, you’re probably right about that too. Even though no one rioted in the Vatican and churches weren’t burned and desecrated by the protesters, I’m sure some held much stronger … uh … hatred for the perpetrators than I do. It’s about time someone around here finally recognized that I just might not be some christian fundo in my beliefs.
In one of his essays, Eqbal Ahmed (late) had this to say:
" The vast majority of people live in structurally archaic socieities, but they are organically linked with the modern, industrial, often metropolitan world. They are the men and women whom Germaine Tillon has vividly described as 'living on the frontiers of two worlds--in the middle of the ford--hunted by the past, fevered with dreams of the future. But it is with their hands empty and their bellies hollow that they are waiting between their phantoms and their fevers. One of Aime Cesaire's poems provides the appropriate profile of this third world majority:
My Name: Offended
My Middle Name: Humiliated
My Status: Rebel
My Age: The stone age
My Race: the Fallen Race
The degree of discontent is quite unparralled. The world is experienced as being both unjust and disorderly. Yet, surprisingly, the environment in the third world today is far from hopeless; it produces anger more often than despair. "
Since US is the sole power exercizing restraint and enforcing rule of law as it deems fit, it is going to be the target of criticism and excuse for all ills.
“When thousands in Afghanistan are concerned about a report in a magazine that does not reach them, written in a language they do not speak, leading them to protest in a manner unprecedented among other Islamic nations that do speak English, the matter is worth pursuing further: it tells us more about the dangers of propaganda and its exploitation by opposition groups than it does about spontaneous popular sentiments.” http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/20/opinion/20friedman.html
"Yet, surprisingly, the environment in the third world today is far from hopeless; it produces anger more often than despair."
Actually that is not true..most of the third world is worried about jobs and education rather than whether someone allegedly shoved the kuran in the toilet.
For the same reason Muslims are seen as violent intolerant terrorists. And because the issues would be the other way around had this been a non muslim non desi , mostly american forum
