Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
Wow that's pretty cool. Never thought of stuff like that. And those of you who condemn such imams, shame on you. Women are better. Deal with it.
'Why then are just two witnesses required to convict for murder and four for adultery?'
As for this question, the number of witnesses has nothing to do with the severity of the crime. As you know, the punishment for both are equal. Capital punishment. So, most likely, the severity is the same, or similar if not totally equal. Whether that means you get thrashed in hell 20 more times for adultery than murder, I don't know.
The reason for the differences in number of witnesses is simple. People are quick to jump on each other and accuse each other of adultery. So if you limit the number of witnesses to 1 or 2, its easier for someone to incriminate a person they dislike of adultery. Its harder to do it if the requirement is 4 witnesses, and most good legal trials will be able to figure out if the 4 banded together to make up some story about someone. 4 witnesses coming forth and saying they witnessed full out adultery is going to be rare and probably questionable. Prevents innocent people from getting in trouble for no reason. Murder is a different story. You WANT to get ahold of the murderer and execute them before they hurt other people. What has an adulterous person done? They've hurt their family and their sin is more personal. They're not out and posing danger to people en masse, like a murderer on the loose. So, a private sin is more likely to be delt with privately.
IMHO, that's the reasoning I've heard and read about, and its what makes sense to me. You don't want to buy it, you don't have to.
Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
Dear Brother Salam,
Its pretty good that you seem to be intelligent then a person you claim to follow him (Imam Abu Hanifa).
Imam Abu Hanifa Say:Abu Hanifa used to say: had it not been for these two years, I would have been damned.
But you have doubt in Imam Jaffar Sadiq(as) knowledge, where knowledge is in his heridity from Imam Ali (as). If you have more doubt , please read Ahle Sunnat Writer Book: Hundred Great Muslims, where Imam Jaffar is declared teacher of Imam Abu Hanifa. You people does not know about the direct decendents of Holy prophet Mohammad (PBUH). but you people know all about about Dammed YAZID (Cursed to be on him). Shame on you ..First go and see who is the prophet family in Holy Quran then compare some one him...
The Imam of Scholars and Knowledge
Imam As-Sadiq was the teacher of that stage, whom all scholars of the various sects used to learn from. One of his students was Abu Hanifa, the Imam of the Hanafi sect, who spent two years in the Imam's school.
Abu Hanifa used to say: had it not been for these two years, I would have been damned. For although Abu Hanifa did not become a Jaafari, he learned the various religious sciences in these two years. Abu Hanifa also reports that he was asked by Abu Jaa'far Al-Mansour, the Abassid Khalifate of that age, to paper forty complicated questions to Jaafar bin Muhammad for he has charmed the people. Faced by these questions, the Imam used to say: We say this and the people of Medina say that and that group says that, until he went through all the different opinions.
Thus Abu Hanifa concluded:
He is the most knowledgeable person, since the most knowledgeable is the one who know best the peoples' differences:
A historian of that era says that I entered the Mosque and saw 900 Sheiks each saying: "Jaafar bin Muhammad As-Sadiq told me" .He was the teacher of that age, the teacher of those who agreed with him and those who don't for they all used to go back to him, and it is said that those who narrated his traditions exceeded four thousand scholars.
ALLAH AP SAB HAMI WA NASIR HO.
'Why then are just two witnesses required to convict for murder and four for adultery?'
As for this question, the number of witnesses has nothing to do with the severity of the crime. As you know, the punishment for both are equal. Capital punishment. So, most likely, the severity is the same, or similar if not totally equal. Whether that means you get thrashed in hell 20 more times for adultery than murder, I don't know.
The reason for the differences in number of witnesses is simple. People are quick to jump on each other and accuse each other of adultery. So if you limit the number of witnesses to 1 or 2, its easier for someone to incriminate a person they dislike of adultery. Its harder to do it if the requirement is 4 witnesses, and most good legal trials will be able to figure out if the 4 banded together to make up some story about someone. 4 witnesses coming forth and saying they witnessed full out adultery is going to be rare and probably questionable. Prevents innocent people from getting in trouble for no reason. Murder is a different story. You WANT to get ahold of the murderer and execute them before they hurt other people. What has an adulterous person done? They've hurt their family and their sin is more personal. They're not out and posing danger to people en masse, like a murderer on the loose. So, a private sin is more likely to be delt with privately.
IMHO, that's the reasoning I've heard and read about, and its what makes sense to me. You don't want to buy it, you don't have to.
Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
Could please explain to the members that what kind of scale you have to declared lie, all what i said???
come forward. better for you is read the islamic letrature… then blaim me if you got the above wrong.
I know how sincre are you, my thread of (Imam Ali (as) saying) is removed without any explaination, Which is clear sign of forum Admin Hypocracy..
Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) says:
Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
Let me know about one thing and explain it in next reply:
Malik (people who follow, Imam Malik) does not prefer the saying of "In the name of Allah the most Merciful and the most Compassionate" during the prayers, whereas Abu Hanifah considers it a "must". Others say that the prayers are not valid without them. Because prayers are a pillar of Islam, if accepted other deeds would be accepted; but if they were rejected. other deeds would be rejected. Therefore, Malikies prayers to be invalid. The Shiites say that during the ablution we must rub our feet with wet hands, whereas the Sunnis say that we must wash them. But when we read the Holy Qur'an we find "rub your hands and feet" which is clear about the rubbing. So how do you expect any sensible Muslim to accept this and reject the other without research and analysis?"
Come forward please.......all who claim that Imam Abu Hanifa was wise..
Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
AOA WRWB
What is the point of throwing mud on a Scholar of Islam who is now passed away?
And anyone who thinks they are following an Imam should correct their view and belief so that they believe that they are following an opinion of a pious scholar and nothing else.
The great scholars of islam and for that matter Abu Haneefa strived at their level best to understand the religion and when asked about matters they were very hesitant in making absolute statements. They always left the chance of them being in error open.
Imam Abu Hanifa was the same. In "Hayat Abu Hanifa" by Muhamad Abu Zuhra (a book quite sound in it is facts) states this more than once about Abu Hanifa (Allah Yarhamahu). Although I don't have the book infront of me but I distinctly remember the words in the earlier chapters "my rulings are my words and if you find some thing contradicting in them against the sunnah, then take the sunnah"
and in another case "throw my words against the wall"
more or less to the effect.
So why do we think that we have to prove that he followed who today's Shia think are Shia scholars?
Yes the scholars in one time, consulted and talked to each other.
Yes they might have agreed and disagreed.
Yes they might have opinion towards each others beliefs and aqeedah.
Why can't we learn from them in our own understanding and let them rest with sound character in their graves?
Tell me now? Don't dodge this now yourself.
We need healthy souls, minds, bodies and attitudes. There is enough to divide us and rid us of our faith in Allah SWT and the Prophet Muhammad SAW and the day of judgement already.
Why do this and create more injury?
Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
^ well I don’t agree with those who call them selves Salafi either. If you follow the Quran and The Sunnah then you are a muslim. What else? Although their aqeedah of Tawheed is much better than those follow sufism.
I believe in following the right thing. It doesn’t matter who’s mouth it comes from. So it Imam Abu Haneefa’s made the best judgement on something and it is in line with the sunnah and Quran then be it may. Where as if his opinion in some other case is not then whomever’s is the best one should be followed on an individual basis.
(and mind you I am talking about Abu Haneefa (Allah rehma be on him) not the scholars who think they can pass fatwa’s in his name)
Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
So what is wrong in following the Quran and Sunnah through the understanding of Imam Abu Hanifah? Remember it is very dangerous when following a ruling from different Imams, even if all of them derive it from the Quran and Sunnah, it is like following your desires. That is why scholars suggest to the Muslim reverts to follow one madhab and not create your own madhab.
Again, Sufism is just a science if you want to call it that. There is nothing wrong with it UNLESS you are reffering to the worshipping of graves and other bida.
Sufis are more close to Allah because they spend most of their time in zikr.
Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
A. This thread is about Abu Haneefa RA. Atleast appreciate the fact that I defended the dead scholars unlike those who chose to throw mud.
B. I believe I follow Abu haneefa and the scholars more becuase I follow what they taught not what some one says they think should be done.
if you want to talk about taqleed vs. non-Taqleed. Please open a new thread. I don't gaurantee I will comment in it as I have talked about this to death in real life infront of people not from behind the internet interface.
Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
I agree to antumulalona as just being a muslim though in government documents we have to enter sect as well which should be removed, we all are Muslims.
Healty mind you failed to understand my point, i said that this dialogue seems unauthentic and no one of us whom you consider to be an enemy of Hazrat Ali is an enemy, that is your thinking only. The point i was trying to put across that this dialgoue which you are presenting to show the wisdom of Hazrat Imam Jaffar is bogus, it does not suit his stature. To me it seems fabricated. NO doubt he was a direct descendant of Prophet and a very wise man and we so called sunnies respect all 12 imams.
Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
if any imam or anyone told u that Quran says that “rub your hands and feet” then he must have been referring to some other book not the Quran that Allah revealed upon Muhammad (saw)…
because in the real Quran there is no such verse which says “rub your hands and feet”…
the word used is “faghsiloo” which very well means “wash” and rubbing is used for tayammum (not when using water)…
Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
Allah says:
**
**"Wash your faces and your hands..., rub your heads and your feet..."
(Quran 5:6)
Allah, exalted did not repeat the verb for "feet", and joined "heads" and
"feet" together under one verb "Rub", using Waw of Atf. This is exactly
what he did for "faces" and "hands" that came under one verb "Wash".
Would you please let us know kindly why don't you accept the above verse
of Holy Quran?
DONT TURN UR FACE FROM QURAN . please THNIKKKKKKKKKKKK
ALLAH AP SAB KA HAMI WA NASIR HO
because in the real Quran there is no such verse which says "rub your hands and feet"....
the word used is "faghsiloo" which very well means "wash" and rubbing is used for tayammum (not when using water)....
Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
**005.006
YUSUFALI:** O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful.
**PICKTHAL: **O ye who believe! When ye rise up for prayer, wash you faces, and your hands up to the elbows, and lightly rub your heads and (wash) your feet up to the ankles. And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it. Allah would not place a burden on you, but He would purify you and would perfect His grace upon you, that ye may give thanks.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! when you rise up to prayer, wash your faces and your hands as far as the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you are under an obligation to perform a total ablution, then wash (yourselves) and if you are sick or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy, or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth and wipe your faces and your hands therewith, Allah does not desire to put on you any difficulty, but He wishes to purify you and that He may complete His favor on you, so that you may be grateful.
Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
It seems to me that Healty mind is right from the Translations used by Cricket Playa. The order for washing is separate and wiping or rubbing is separate.
Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
the order in the verse is to was all the parts except the head for which the oder is specifically mentioned as touching....
just because the oder of the washing is such that the head comes before the feet, some misunderstand it....
Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
mughal, i have still not been able to understand how this verse says washing of Feet and rubbing of Head in continuation without using different verbs. Can you elaborate?
[FONT=Traditional Arabic][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, Tahoma][size=2]005.006 يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِذَا قُمْتُمْ إِلَى الصَّلاةِ فَاغْسِلُوا وُجُوهَكُمْ وَأَيْدِيَكُمْ إِلَى الْمَرَافِقِ وَامْسَحُوا بِرُءُوسِكُمْ وَأَرْجُلَكُمْ إِلَى الْكَعْبَيْنِ وَإِنْ كُنْتُمْ جُنُبًا فَاطَّهَّرُوا وَإِنْ كُنْتُمْ مَرْضَى أَوْ عَلَى سَفَرٍ أَوْ جَاءَ أَحَدٌ مِنْكُمْ مِنَ الْغَائِطِ أَوْ لامَسْتُمُ النِّسَاءَ فَلَمْ تَجِدُوا مَاءً فَتَيَمَّمُوا صَعِيدًا طَيِّبًا فَامْسَحُوا بِوُجُوهِكُمْ وَأَيْدِيكُمْ مِنْهُ مَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيَجْعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ مِنْ حَرَجٍ وَلَكِنْ يُرِيدُ لِيُطَهِّرَكُمْ وَلِيُتِمَّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ[/size]005.006 Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha qumtum ila alssalati faighsiloo wujoohakum waaydiyakum ila almarafiqi waimsahoo biruoosikum waarjulakum ila alkaAAbayni wa-in kuntum junuban faittahharoo wa-in kuntum marda aw AAala safarin aw jaa ahadun minkum mina algha-iti aw lamastumu alnnisaa falam tajidoo maan fatayammamoo saAAeedan tayyiban faimsahoo biwujoohikum waaydeekum minhu ma yureedu Allahu liyajAAala AAalaykum min harajin walakin yureedu liyutahhirakum waliyutimma niAAmatahu AAalaykum laAAallakum tashkuroona****005.006 O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful.Al-Qur’an, 005.006 (Al-Maeda [The Table, The Table Spread])
Text Copied from DivineIslam’s Qur’an Viewer software v2.910In the Arabic only wamsihoo is used for head and feet but the translators have used in brackets washing. Am i missing something due to lack of Arabic knowledge? Surely there must be good enough reason for translating like this.
Re: Wisdom of Imaam Abu Hanifah (rahmatullah alayh)
Mughal where are you? I intend to know your answer before i consider that Imam Abu Hanifa was mistaken on this washing vs rubbing issue. I think he must have a plausible reason for his fatwa.
