Where exactly in the quran does it say u allowed to hit ur wife?
Re: WIfe beating
Even IF it doesn't say that you're 'allowed to hit your wife'. I can assure you that it doesn't anywhere say that you're NOT allowed to hit your wife. So really we're back to square one, just as with most things of a religious nature.
But as an issue on a moral and humane level, for a person to 'beat' his wife under any circumstance should be loathed upon. In my view a person who would do such a thing (no matter what the circumstance) would be a thug.
Dialogue is ALWAYS the solution.
Re: WIfe beating
Here is what I wrote on this subject;
s wife beating against the quran?
Before I answer this question, here is the verse that raises the issue of wife beating;
004.034YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
004.035 YUSUFALI: If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation: For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.
004.128 YUSUFALI: If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
There are a few things that I need to clarify before the answer makes any sense. As explained elsewhere already.
Please note first that islam is a way of life based on principles of freedom of thought and expression therefore it is anti oppression and suppression. It is based on social justice therefore anti injustice. It is based on fairness therefore anti unfairness. It is based on peace therefore anti disturbance and instability or terrorism or chaos. It is based on principle of cooperation between human being hence anti noncooperation. It is based on principle of progess therefore anti stagnation or regression. It is based on principle of prosperity therefore anti poverty. It is based on principle of knowledge therefore anti illiteracy and ignorance.
IT IS BASED ON PRINCIPLE OF HUMANITY AND BROTHERHOOD therefore it is anti slavery and exploitation, use or abuse.
Islam teaches human beings to live for each other not against each other as a good family. As for verses above, arabic wording is same in the verses 34 and 128 in surah 4 showing clearly the quran has been mistranslated. It may be taken as desertion or dislike ie no longer in love with each other etc etc. This may be guidance towards finding out the exact position where man and wife stand regarding each other ie do they still weant ot be together or want ot go their separate ways.
1)Islam is founded on principles of social justice and fair play.
2)Islamic laws are for benefit of humanity and are there to protect people from themselves and others eg suicide is as unlawful as killing anyone else. The quran is clear that allah only made such things and actions unlawful as could prove more harmful than good. The quran also clear as to lawful is all that which has more benefits than harm. It is because things or actions are not free of their good or bad side effects or nock on effects.
3)Islam does not allow people to take laws in their own hands because that will destroy law and order in the society.
4)When laws and order is an issue then we are talking about safety of individuals and society as well as justice, crime detection rate, true conviction rate, false accusation rate, false conviction rate, standard of evidence, support for victims etc etc. We need to ensure that criminals do not walking away free and that falsely accused do not suffer injustice as far as it is humanly possible. One can see how difficult this balancing act really is.
Over all the idea is to keep crime rate as low as possible so that society can live with it, because crime free state is not possible. Not only because of difficulty in formation of laws because laws need to be well thought out but also in implementation of those laws and their enforcement etc. In other words human error and neglect is impossible to rule out at various stages of the process.
Coming to the concerned verses, by now it should be very clear that the verses of the quran are mistranslated and misinterpreted because the people involved in their translations etc may not have full grasp of how things work in real world. The quran is clear that no one has any authority over anyone else other than what is needed for organisational purposes. Islamic concept of government is not about controlling people but to organise people to help them live peacefully with help of each other and the society.
The other point to remember is that all orders in the quran are based on reasons ie situations and circumstances as they suit time and place or occasions. Therefore responsibility some times is with men and some times with women ie whoever suits the situation or circumstances best. In other words applications of laws change with change of situations. So men are given authority under some situations and women under other situations ie best person for the job. If a woman is better able to do a job then she is to do it and if man is better at it then man has to do it. No matter what one or the other must do it otherwise the job will remain undone.
The next point is meanings of the words used in the quran. For example, word daraba has many different meanings eg beat, hit, strike, multiply, separate, leave, let go, push away, trial, test, similar etc etc.
The next thing we need to look at is context of the verses in the quran eg look at verses like 4/6,19 etc. In the quran we are told that marriage is not a child’s play rather people who want to get married must be grown up both biologically as well as psychologically and be in full agreement ie they must be compatible. Now if marriage was a sensible well thought out step to begin with then it is unlikely that it will end up in disrepute and divorce. However if marriage does fall through due to unforeseen situations and circumstances then people have two chances for divorce and getting back together again. However, if they fail the third time then divorce is final ie the couple can no longer marry each other again except that after the marriage if the woman becomes divorced again under normal situation and circumstances then the first man can marry her again if that is what she also wants.
Now let us look at these verses. It is told that first step is mutual talk between husband and wife. If it works the situation is sorted so that is the end of the matter. If first step fails then next step is to sleep on separate beds ie give the anger time to die down. If it works then again the problem is solved and no further action is needed. However if the second step fails then it is time for the third step.
The question is what is third step? According to most translators and the interpreters of the quran it is for husband to start beating up the wife till she submits and if she does then that is the end of problem. How sad that scholars made this serious accusation against the quran? It is because in the next verse we are told that people from both families must get involved to help them get back together again. This point, with commandment for not taking law into one’s own hand and the law that one must be just and fair etc make it very clear that the quran is not ordering man to beat up his wife. It is just giving another suggestion and after that telling families and relatives of the parties to get involved in getting them back together again.
The quran is telling man and wife to make their separation public as a third step ie send the wife back to her parents or relatives etc. This step can also help man and wife get back together again because people will start talking about them. When this separation becomes known to others, may be others will want to marry these people so if these two want to get back then they must or they could lose the chance if man or wife marries some one else. The relative also become concerned so they get involved as a forth and final say. If this solves the problem fine otherwise legal steps become necessary towards reconciliation, or separation or divorce.
Beat is wrong also that if a wife is really not happy with her man then she will do what she wants to do behind his back. So this advice is only for a wife who is not this kind of wife but a god loving wife who herself know wrong and right and just for some reason made a mistake. A one of mistake.
The other thing to remeber is that women have similar rights against men as well. It is balance of power that man and wife keep each other in check in the name of god and humanity. This is not about one side beating the hell out of the other. You will not have the family atmosphere that way. This works like government and opposition but for the good of the family and country or humanity.
As we can see the translations are based on the way the society at the time used to deal with situations like this rather than understanding and following the quran ie people already had a culture in which quran was revealed so it takes time for things to change for the better. The wife beating, the child abuse, the force marriage, the stoning to death etc etc are part of societies that had or have master slave mentality. The idea is to keep powerless and weak people frighten and terrorised by the people in authority. Even today authoritarian governments use the very same idea of law ie they form laws to break and control their people and the result is backward countries, tribes and families that results in human suffering at a massive scale.
So people who attack islam, attack it because they know if people understood islam it is not a good news for them because islam opposes master slave relationships between people. It is also possible that the quran has been deliberately mistranslated so that it suits the paymasters of such so called religious scholars. It is a way of keeping people side tracked from the objectivity by keeping them ignorant of the real objective of the quran so that people fight over aimless things and remain divided so that they could enslave them one by one. Because once one is put on the wrong path and told it is the right path then it takes much more effort to get back to the right path and so even very sincere people remain ignorant of the purpose of the message.
Re: WIfe beating
Nice Info :k:
Re: WIfe beating
Peace All
What has been written by Mughal1 is not to be considered the consensus view on this matter. Although much of it is accurate, but where it counts it is a distortion and apologetic made to be palatable to a modern audience. We don't need to be this way Al-Qur'an takes care of itself.
Context is important always:
The verse talks about a wife who guards her husbands things of right ordained by Allah (SWT). This guarding refers to his property and her own chastity. So if she gives his money, property away to someone without his knowledge or allows men to enter his house or for her to be cheating on him in his absence in any way, and he suspects her, what is he supposed to do?
a) Remind her of his rights
b) On proof, sleep away from her
c) If it continues, say an argument breaks out or it becomes more blatant then (hit to symbolically represent that stage) The hitting is in hadith restricted to something of small size, once without leaving a mark. It is supposed to be the fear of being hit rather than the hitting that is advocated.
At each point like Mughal1 stated the options are to look for signs of the situation resolving itself.
If however before doing any of these things and you fear that even sleeping separately or warning verbally may actually worsen the situation not mend it then none of these things are done, but to start arbitration and marriage counselling. After hitting once then the next course of action will be divorce hence domestic violence is being curtailed in the Qur'an. If a man is taken to the extent of hitting then he cannot continue in that state to force obedience or loyalty from his wife. Once that symbolic hitting occurs then he will need to consider the break up, which he probably does not want to consider, hence will prevent himself from going to that extent.
My problem with Mughal1's version is that it is totally blind to the hitting word. He jumps to the next ayat and if people do that with Al-Qur'an because they are unable to reason with it then this is what causes problems, and people will make fun of us being selective with out scriptures. The word for hit is there we need to deal with it not avoid it.
NOTE: The conditions for all this are only for disloyalty and ill-conduct with property and her chastity in his absence. There are many things arguments break out for but the majority of them do not fall in this category so would be completely not applicable.
Re: WIfe beating
I disagree with people translating or interpreting "daraba" as beating or hitting without leaving any mark. I'm a woman and I know if I get any beats from my husband or anyone else it would only worsen the situation, so beating or hitting cannot be an option.
Re: WIfe beating
A cheating wife is committing fornication and is an adulteress and Quran has specified in sura 24 Verse The fornicator/adulterer and the fornicatress/adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.
Now we come to verse 33 of sura 4(An-nisa) which prescribes so called wife beating .
If we look verse 32 before and verse 34 after it looks like the context here relates to the wife who give away material possessions of their husband without their permission. This is dishonesty and a kind of thievery on the part of those wives. Quran has very harsh punishment for thieves (up to cutting hands) . But looks like Quran recognizes intimate relationship between a husband and wife and treats this mater as a civil matter not a criminal matter and also a husband will be the only judge of if a women has plundered the wealth and property of her husband therefore Quran has prescribed some gentle ways of dealing with this issue. Sleep in a separate bed , admonish them and give a chance to them to repent and allows forgiveness on the part of husband only for repeat and arrogant offending wives Quran allows beating of wives. Verse 34 tells us that if there is a difference of opinion between husband and wife on as to what actually happened , for example the situation is like " he said and she said " and there are no witnesses then Quran has prescribed the process of arbitration on this matter.
Now someone might come with the argument as to what will happen to a husband who plunders the wealth of his wife ? Right ?
In this case verse 34 might apply and if a wife does not agree and is bent on punishing a husband and the crime has been proven then I guess he will be treated as a thief and punished accordingly. Allah knows the best.
These are all my opinions and they might has some flaws of logic , but this can provide some thought points to those who want to start a fresh on this very controversial subject.
Following is the translation of meaning of Quran form Sura 4 and verses 32,34,35 dealing with this matter.
And unto each We have appointed heirs of that which parents and near kindred leave; and as for those with whom your right hands have made a covenant, give them their due. Lo! Allah is ever Witness over all things. (33) Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great. (34) And if ye fear a breach between them twain (the man and wife), appoint an arbiter from his folk and an arbiter from her folk. If they desire amendment Allah will make them of one mind. Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Aware.
Re: WIfe beating
Salaam dear psyah, thank you for sharing your thoughts. You are saying that I ignored word DARABA but I thought that I made it clear as to what it may mean in the context of the verses stated. I stated the meanings of the word in dictionary to show that word daraba does have other meanings as well beside beating. I also brought in wider context in which if the verse is interpreted will make better sense. Particulalrly if we look at 4.158 where in sane word is should for husband as is used for the wife.
The context may well be that husband and wife are no longer much interested in each and to find out this may be a process to see if they still love each other and need each other not. This becomes obvious once man and wife separate.
I very strongly believe that word beat here is out of context for the reasons explained, it is not for making people happy who think it is uncivilised, islam is islam and islam is whatever makes beter sense. It is not about pleasing one mindset or the other. Islam is about whatever is appropriate and right. So if the interpretation goes in favour of those who think things this way, why would there be anything wrong with that?
Of course my word is not final, it is just an opinion that I am sharing the way it makes sense to me. So discussions only helps us to try and see what makes better sense.
So please continue sharing your thoughts because may end up with yet beter ideas.
regards and all the best.
Re: WIfe beating
Salaam dear psyah, thank you for sharing your thoughts. You are saying that I ignored word DARABA but I thought that I made it clear as to what it may mean in the context of the verses stated. I stated the meanings of the word in dictionary to show that word daraba does have other meanings as well beside beating. I also brought in wider context in which if the verse is interpreted will make better sense. Particulalrly if we look at 4.128 where in sane word is should for husband as is used for the wife.
The context may well be that husband and wife are no longer much interested in each and to find out this may be a process to see if they still love each other and need each other or not. This becomes obvious once man and wife separate.
I very strongly believe that word beat here is out of context for the reasons explained, it is not for making people happy who think it is uncivilised, islam is islam and islam is whatever makes beter sense. It is not about pleasing one mindset or the other. Islam is about whatever is appropriate and right. So if the interpretation goes in favour of those who think things this way, why would there be anything wrong with that?
Of course my word is not final, it is just an opinion that I am sharing the way it makes sense to me. So discussions only helps us to try and see what makes better sense.
So please continue sharing your thoughts because may end up with yet beter ideas.
regards and all the best.
Re: WIfe beating
Peace Mughal1
There is a benefit in providing a long essay to the issue but there are sometimes better methods in being straightforward and clear on certain issues.
I agree there are many interpretations of the word "daraba" - few of which actually make sense in the verse above.
We need to address the term and it's meaning not just the context around it. I provided that in my post, you only provided a list of possible meanings (without reference) and then you said that the third stage actually means a public separation.
This is the important part of your post. You need to provide evidence that this is the case. Show where this meaning of separation has been used from the root DRB?
I've looked in dictionaries and could not find this meaning, others are there and in fact even "trial" is there. It could be that sending a wife to her parents would be a trial if that is your intent.
I'm not really in disagreement with you on the broader topic i.e. that this verse is actually about preventing violence, but the word is there and it should be dealt with honestly.
Re: WIfe beating
Interesting points are at 17min, 19min and 24min. These explain that the verse stops and curtails domestic violence, hit - has the condition to be done out of rahma not in anger and is supposed to be a tap - (i.e. a gesture/ signal for the limit being breached).