Just re watched Dhoni’s Assault in the 5th ODI, and also from what I have seen of Akmal,
Is it valid to say that because the Keepers are behind the Sticks and are constantly watching the ball they have a very good judgement of the balls pitch, swing and bounce, and that eventually that makes them better batsman.
I just mentioned Dhoni and Akmal, but if you look around now and in the past, you will see many examples, Moin Khan, Gilchrist, Sangakara, etc etc its a long list.
Is it valid to say that because the Keepers are behind the Sticks and are constantly watching the ball they have a very good judgement of the balls pitch, swing and bounce, and that eventually that makes them better batsman.
I just mentioned Dhoni and Akmal, but if you look around now and in the past, you will see many examples, Moin Khan, Gilchrist, Sangakara, etc etc its a long list.
So what do you folks think
Interesting point indeed........but most of these explosive WK bastmen have surfaced in last 10 years or so......what about Wasim Bari of Pak who played over 80 test macthes and was never considered a good test batsman.......but I guess Bari could be an exception.....for most part, WKs are good batsmen...Farokh Engineer and Syed Kirmani of India, Jeff dujon, Bob Taylor, Ian Healy all were pretty reasonable batsmen, though, they were not that explosive.....
Often times, this is the reason coaches use to train top order batsmen to stand in slips all around the world so they be in touch with the pitch movement in every particular game and bat accordingly. Recently, when Marcus Trescothik scored 193 against Pakistan, he himself said it in a press statement that standing there for almost two days in the slips played a huge part in that innings.
In the past, most wicketkeepers didn't consider their batting a whole lot but nowadays, especially in one day cricket, when a wicket keeper batsman has became a neccessity, managements require them to perform with the bat also, not only because it'll be helpful but also because they are more capable of doing that due to their hand-eye coordination with the ball.
Great thread idea, and nice posts by fellow members as well!
I would definitely agree with the hypothesis that Wicket-Keeper batsmen have more or less been right on target with their batting capabilities coupled with magnificient hand-eye co-ordination, and the ability to read the pitch very well under almost any circumstances. Almost all wicket-keepers at this point in time around the world, along with their active participation in hundreds of matches throughout history possess a very knowledgable taste in the 'know-how' of the conditions of the surfaces, and an approximate idea of how the pitch plays out during the course of an innings.
Excellent point! This is precisely the reason as to why we witness almost all top-order batsmen being thrusted in the slip corridor (Farhat/Dravid/Ponting).
Excellent point! This is precisely the reason as to why we witness almost all top-order batsmen being thrusted in the slip corridor (Farhat/Dravid/Ponting).
i am not sure about farhat though...:)...i doubt if he has learnt anything in slip corridor.....
What a good idea Aejaz bhai,
I think wicket keeper batsmen have been developing since the last decade or so as a need of the ODI cricket rather than just being wicket keepers. Cricket now is demanding so much from everyplayer that teams can't afford to just have a wicket keeper who can just keep the wickets and not bat. Now, pretty much in all sides, wicket keepers are good batsmen as well. For example, Aus has Gilchrist and boy his bats flashes if you let him go at your balls. What about India's Dhoni and we saw in the series what he is capable of . Not to forget, Kamran Akmal. He came with 2 gem of centuries against England. So, my point being their hand eye co-ordination might help them keep good track of the ball but it's the demand of today's Cricket that wicket keeper are supposed to have dual functions.
I don't know about these guys but i can tell from my personal experience ...... i started Cricket in Germany (yes even here they play Cricket) some 6 years ago ...... since i played football before that (partly as goal keeper) i started as wicketkeeper ...... Problem i had to face was the low bounce on matting wickets so getting a bad bounce before the ball reached me behind the stumps was a normality ...... so i decided to stand up to the wicket ..... even to the socalled fastbowlers (i would medium fast) ...... that caused a bit of problem at the beginning but after a few weeks i realied i hit the ball while batting where i ever i liked ...... it was like my hands were going through the wicket-keeping routine while batting and i didn't need to do anything extraordinary ...... my footwork was worse than that of Sehwag but i did middle he ball
So yes to Aejaz Bhai's theory ...... keeping certainly has a positive effect to batting
Its true that standing behind the wickets gives one an idea of bounce and hence some help to bat, but a confounding factor behind this theory is that wicket keepers with better batting capabilities are selected in National squads preferentially over those who are not good batsmen. Hence you don't see wicket keepers who are not good batsmen.
Excellent Point, Out of 5 top keepers in the country, the one with best batting capabilities will be picked up. Hence automatically selection does it. I can surely think of many a keepers who can't bat well.
Interesting point but Ajaz bhai your logic should have made Shoaib Akhter the best batsman against fast bowling, Simon Jones the best batsman of swing bowling and Shane Warne the best bastman against the spin but unfortunately that is not the case! This may have played some part in polishing their batting skills but I guess its gifted in first place.
WK in old days were never used to be this good batsmen although they were doing the same thing (i.e. watching the ball they have a very good judgement of the balls pitch, swing and bounce…). I guess WKs have realized that their spot in the team is not solid unless they make their batting strong and they are paying more attention to it now.
I think u missed the point … a WK has to concentrate as much as a batsmen coz he has to think that the batsmen ma miss all 6 balls an over !!!
Different is the case if u r a fielder and i’ve not seen many bowlers (fast or Spin) who r in slips (Shane warne is mostly 2nd slip) … only the WK and Slip positition gives u an idea how to react to fast or spin bowling … so at some stage u develope a feeling for at as u’ve to as alert as the batsmen who is facing the music … coz any bal can be deflected to the slip cordon where u’ve follow the ball … i heard once Holding commentating that while u r WK, 1st Slip, 2nd Slip and even 3rd Slip u’ve to watch the ball … when u r fielding at gully, point or extra cover or any other position u’ve to follow the movement of the bat
I don’t know if u’ve ever been WK or in 1-3 slips position but if u’ve been u must admit that every time a bowler is about to deliver the ball u r in a sort of attention until the batsmen hits the ball or the WK collects or the balls is played to any other part of the ground than slips or WK … and that very moment of concentration which is repeated over and over again is helpful for batting … imagine a slip is here for say 25 overs but the keeper stands there for 50 overs …
But I think u r also right that growing competition is vital in this trend
Look like you missed the point Zero bhai. If concentrating from behind the wicket is the main reason of good WK batsmen these days (as Ajaz Bhai suggested), then why keepers were not this good batsmen in old days? What I am suggesting is that WK are paying more attention to their batting these days than in past and thats the main reason of having soo many good WK batsmen around these days.
very true.... Now a days you cant get place in any team unless you are a good batsman. It just doesnt give good balance to team. This is the reason many teams have played and are still playing sub-standard wicketkeepers when they dont have good wicket keeper who can bat. Examples are Sangakara & Dravid.
