WHY????

Society Religion & Philosophy
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MUSLIMS USED TO RULE THE WORLD, THE CONQUERED MOST OF THE WORLD UPTO SPAIN!(MUGHAL EMPIRE)!WHAT WENT WRONG?

MUSLIMS WERE(AND STILL ARE)REALLY NICE PEOPLE AND THEY TRUSTED THE WHITE PEOPLE AND LET THEM INTO SPAIN!THE WHITE PEOPLE SAID THAT THEY WANT TO BE LIKE MUSLIMS(BE MUSLIMS) BUT THEY REALLY WANTED TO KNOW WHY THEY STRONG!WHY COULDN’T THEY BE DEFEATED?

THEY USED TO WIN EVERY BATTLE UNTIL WHITE PEOPLE WENT THERE AND BETRAYED THEY TRUST ONCE THEY FOUND OUT THAT THE SECRET BEHIND THE MUSLIMS WAS FAITH IN ALLAH AND THEY WERE NOT MUSLIMS BY NAME BUT ALSO PRACTISING MUSLIMS!HOW DID THEY OVERCOME THIS?

SO THE WHITE PEOPLE START SENDING ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, LADIES AND PRETENDING ‘MUSLIMS’ WHO DID NOT MUCH FAITH AND WERE NOT PRACTISING!SLOWLY THE MUSLIM FAITH WAS GOING DOWN(STILL IS TODAY)AND INSTEAD OF PRACTISING THEY WERE BUSY DOING OTHER STUFF!ONCE THIS HAD BEEN DONE THE WHITE PEOPLE WENT AND FOUGHT THEM AND TOOK OVER SPAIN!

THATS HOW WE LOST BUT JUST LOOK HOW DID ONE PERSON MANAGE TO CONTROL THOUSANDS OF SOLDIERS AND HOW DID THEY COME ABOUT IT? IT WAS JUST THE IDEA OF ONE MAN WHO STUDIED AND WROTE BOOKS AND SPREADING HIS IDEAS AND ALSO SPREADED THE MESSAGE OF ISLAM!WHY CAN’T NO ONE TODAY THAT TODAY?

(DON’T THINK THERE AND ITS IMPOSSIBLE! BECAUSE WHEN I GAVE THIS LECTUR YESTERDAY PEOPLE THERE WERE SAYING THE SAME THING BUT ONCE I ASKED THEM ABOUT THEY IDEAS-THEY ALL CAME OUT WITH SOME REALLY GOOD ONES AND I SAID TO THEM WHY DON’T YOU WRITE THEM DOWN OR WRITE A BOOK OR PUBLISH IT ON THE WEB! THEY SAID THAT THEY WEREN’T LEADERS! SO THEY NEED A LEADER!WHO’S EDUCATED AS FAR AS POSSIBLE FOR HIM/HER!)

WE CAN BUT WE NEED TO HAVE FAITH AND GET RID OF OUR BAD HABITS AND WE NEED TO GET TOGETHER AND SOLVE IT!LOOK AT UK TODAY?

ONE OF THE BEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD?RICHEST?PEOPLE ARE WELL OFF AND JUST LOOK 50 YEARS BACK WHEN PEOPLE WERE KILLING PEOPLE FOR A LOAF OF BREAD?SO A GROUP OF PEOPLE SAT DOWN AND CAME UP WITH A SOLUTION!ISN’T THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING?FOR OUR COUNTRIES THAT ARE IN POVERTY?

PEOPLE SAY THE POOR ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO DO THIS AND THE RICH JUST SIT AND WATCH AND DO THE DEEDS THAT ARE ALSO THE SIGNS OF JUDGEMENT DAY(YOU’VE PROBALY NOTICED THEM-LYING,ACCEPTING BRIBES,BACK BITING,RELATIONSHIPS BEFORE MARRIAGE,HOURS/DAYS/WEEKS/MONTHS AND YEARS FLYING BY,NOT PRAYING, BROTHER FIGHTING A BROTHER,‘MUSLIMS’ GOING TO MOSQUE ON SPECIAL OCCASIONS ONLY LIKE EID…ETC)

OUR GOVERMENTS ARE CORRUPT AND MORE MONEY IS GOING WEAPONS AND OTHER UNUSEFUL THINGS RATHER THAN BEING SPEND IN THE WAY OF ISLAM! MONEY ISN’T A BAD THING TO HAVE, ONE OF OUR HADITHS WAS A BILLIONAIRE BUT HE SPENT IT IN THE WAY OF ISLAM BY BUILDING MOSQUES, HELPING THE POOR ETC.

BUT THESE DAYS MONEY ISN’T BEING SPENT IN THE WAY OF ISLAM! LOOK AT SAUDI ARABIA, ITS NOT ONE OF THE RICHEST BUT THE RICHEST COUNTY IN THE WORLD!PLUS OIL,DIAMONDS,GOLD STILL IN THE MOUNTIONS!WHEN DID YOU LAST HEAR OF THEM GIVING IT TO THE POOR? AND THEY STILL RUSHED FORWARD GIVE IT TO THE VICTIMS OF TWIN TOWERS?

THE QUESTION IS WHY AREN’T WE POWERFUL AS WE USED TO BE?WHY ARE SO MANY MUSLIMS POOR?TRYING TO GET INTO ENGLAND?WHERE PEOPLE WERE BEING KILLED FOR A LOAF OF BREAD 50 YEARS AGO?WHY ARE WE NOT WORSHIPING ALLAH?WHY ARE WE FAILING THE TEST OF LIFE?WHY CAN OTHER RELIGION THINK THEY CAN DO ANYTHING MUSLIMS?WHY AREN’T WE RAISING VOICES?IN THE PAST A MUSLIM GIRL WAS IN TRUBLE IN THE SMALLEST CORNER OF THE WORLD, EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM IN THIS WORLD USED TO GET UPTO GO HELP A SINGLE GIRL!WHY ISN’T THAT BEING DONE TODAY WHEN THOUSANDS OF MUSLIM GIRLS AND BOYS ARE BEING WOUNDED,KIDNAPPED,KILLED ETC?WHY CAN’T WE ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS?WHEN WE HAVE GOT DEGREES AND A LEVELS IN SEVERAL SUBJECTS!AND IN THE PAST OUR ANCESTORS COULD ANSWER QUESTIONS MUCH DIFFICULT THIS WITHOUT DEGREES?IS IT BECAUSE THEY SAT IN MOSQUE AND STUDIED THE QURAN AND LIFES OF OTHER LEADING FIGURES IN ISLAM?

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YOUR COMMENTS,IDEAS AND ANSWERS TO THE TOPIC ARE WELCOME! SORRY THE TOPIC WENT A LITTLE BIT TOO LONG, I GOT CARRIED AWAY WITH THE ANGER!SORRY IF IT OFFENDED ANYONE!AND DON'T THINK AM NEW TO THIS BOARD, I'VE BEEN HERE FOR NEARLY 2 YEARS!

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Please do not disturb me.“I” want to make money so “I” and “my” family can live a happy “life”, “I” am not bothered much about what others are going thru, “I” myself have had enough and “I” have got a lots to do for “my” family.

PS: Please, don’t type using ALL UPPER CASE because that is considered as “shouting”. Thanks

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

[This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited April 08, 2002).]

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Assalaam u 'Alaikum

Yaar, you are right, but please do not use the term "White People" .

Millions of Muslims are White.

** Many tribes native to CAUCASIA are Muslims - eg: Chechens, Ingush, Azeri, Dagestani, Karachay, Cherkess, Kabardin, Balkar, Meshketian Turks, Ajars, Abazin, Abkhaz, Adyg etc etc etc - These all are WHITE MUSLIMS and are NATIVES OF CAUCASIA. **

Many of the Muslims of Caucasia migrated to Turkey and Shaam because of the Russian occupation.

Also, what do you say about these ** White Muslims - Bosnians, Albanians, Tatars (Russian occupation), Chuvash (Russian occupation), Pomars (cant' rembr the exact name, but they are in Bulgaria) ** - and there are many more ** WHITE MUSLIM ** minorities in European nations - like *Poland, Greece, Romania etc. * Many of them have been brutally persecuted for a long time now, that's a different story.

And what about the ** Turks of Turkey and Uzbekistan? **

** Even SWITZERLAND was RULED by the MUSLIMS for 150 YEARS, and when the Pope had to pass through it, He would have to PAY JIZYA (poll tax for non-Muslims)!!!! **

Rmbr the Hadeeth of our Holy Prophet (S) - (not the exact words) - ** No Arab is superior to a non-Arab, and no Non-Arab is superior to an Arab; No White is superior to a Black, and no Black is superior to a White EXCEPT by Taqwa (piety, fear of Allah). ** If I remember correctly, Our Holy Prophet (S) said these words in his ** LAST KHUTABAH (Sermon). **

Yes, you can use the words like Crusaders, Christians etc etc, but please do not use White People.

** The "Brown" Chrisitians of Indonesia raped Muslim women INSIDE the MOSQUES ON the PAGES of the QUR'AN. **

Muslims are being persecuted by the ** "Black" Christians in Mozambique, Tanzania, and elsewhere. **

** Mongoloid Christians ** are persecuting the Muslims in Philippines.

So, I agree with much of what you said, but please do not use the term "White People".

Atleast, one Muslim Turkish sister visits this messageboard, don't you think such kind of language would hurt a fellow Muslim sister?

Thanks, and
Wassalaam u 'Alaikum

[This message has been edited by Indian_Muslim (edited April 08, 2002).]

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Funny you didn't mention all the Christians being persecuted by Muslims all over the world. How come?

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[quote]
Originally posted by Faraz Mir:
Funny you didn't mention all the Christians being persecuted by Muslims all over the world. How come?
[/quote]

Why? Want to compare numbers?

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Not really, I was just wondering about Indian Muslism selective memory.

Here’s something intersting: http://www.persecution.org/concern/2000/09/p3.html

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[quote]
Originally posted by Faraz Mir:
** Not really, I was just wondering about Indian Muslism selective memory.
**
[/quote]

it usually becomes selective because of the number in the two cases....
what u r talking about is very small in magnitude of what ismentioned above....

but please do realize that whoever does such an act of gang rape as mentioned in the article is subject to punishment both in Islamic Law and in the Pakistani Law....
had the case been reported, i assure u that proper action wud have been taken, and who knows the culprits might have even been punished but the site u mentioned was 'selective' and forgot to mention it....

"Our Lord! forgive us our sins and anything we may have done that transgressed our duty; establish our feet firmly and help us against those that resist faith." **Quran(3:147)

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**

Wal Asr. Inal Insaana lafil Khusr.

Erm, Europeans you mean? Or lets say Christians.

They had the whole Europe’s support.

If that is your reasoning, then its pretty accurate. The putting non-practicing muslims as leaders is still a nice weapon.

Because today we dedicate our lives to earning money. Our parents ask us, what about your future? Not realising, it is God who makes our future. We go and kill ourselves in suicide bombs, not realising that instead of killing ourselves, we can dedicate our lives to teach others about the atrocities being commited on us. And also, we dont like to study. We propagate what we learn in school. Out mentalities are the mentalities of our parents and teachers. But Islam teaches us to think of our own accord and not follow our parents/grandparents blindly (Albeit, respecting our parents and teachers totally). How would Prophet Ibrahim have thought about Allah if he blindly followed his parents? And second, we are not patient. We do nothing all our lives, and then once we see or read a news article, or someone mentions that muslims need to do something, we get this adrenaline rush and for the whole day/week/month talk about Islam and we should be better, but then it stops. We want to change the world in one day, with one action, with one post, with one lecture. We never read the Quran with its meaning adn ponder over it, because if we do, we will realise we dont have to do much. Just follow the rules and you WILL be the leader. Unfortunately, no one does follow rules.

The leaders we have are good motivaters, but not good planners. Thats what I think.

Its never too late. And dudes, its us who can do anything, not elders.

Oh, you forgot, “Saying proudly that Islam is the best religion in gatherings.” That statement seems so kill me when I hear it from even myself. I dont deserve to be called a Muslim.

And uncorrupt person will not accept leadership anyway. The true leader will never try to prove himself the best in a “campaign”.

Actually they do. They did give the loans of many poor countries. BUT. Saudi people give a lot of donation, the thing is that this money is never channled into the right path.

Wal Asr. Inal Insaana Lafil Khusr.

Well, ask them if they are happy, since richness is not a criteria for comparision.

And in USA too. Because the countries they live in do not offer security. But at the same time this massive brain drain will not do any good for the people they leave behind.

Because we are worshipping Money. People, Money comes with God’s will. You know how California has become so rich. They started those colonies with God in mind. The plan was to dedicated the western plains of America for God’s worship. Hundereds of Churches were constructed. And Churches attracted people. Good people. And I am sure, thats why Allah gave that place lots of money. Now, the people who went for God got Money. They did not want it. Thats how it should be. And thats how it is.

Because the leaders are their pawns.

We are. Unfortunately, they are indiviualistic voices, and voices on forums, and emails. Sit on couch and blabber voices (like me).

If I go to help someone, who will help me? Who will pay my bills?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I dont know, but I do know that I am not gonna go and let anyone go and start a group. A group called “Lashkare XYZ” or “XYZ Jamaat” or “XYZ Foundation” and think about fixing Muslims problems. No No. We all gotta come together and do it. No groups/factions etc. Just Muslims. People who beleive in one God and do good deeds. And change the world. Not in a night, but maybe a generation or two. We should expect to see the fruits of change not in our life, but in our grandchildren’s lives, and in our Hereafters. Ameen.

**

[This message has been edited by AltavistaBaby (edited April 09, 2002).]

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Dear Murtaza,

As Changez_like has kindly pointed out, please refrain from typing in upper-case letters, as it is considered to be shouting and often sounds rude.

Sentinel.

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sorry people but since i hadn't been on for ages, i didn't know there were knew rules!as far as the term 'white people' goes, i knew it was wrong and thats why i apologised afterwards but the words such as crusaders at gone out of my mind!sory agian for people who were offended either by my writting stlye or something else!

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First Muslims never ruled the world granted they had a pretty big empire at one time but to say they ruled the world is stretching it a bit the never controlled China,Japan,the far east or vast parts of Russia or alot of Europe or most of Africa.You were so nice as to let the "white people" in as you say into Spain, sorry to disappoint you but the "white people"were already there and living long before Islam showed up.Im not trying to belittle the Muslim empire because it was one of the most powerful of all time but to say it ruled the world is factually wrong thats all.

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[quote]
Originally posted by just2much:
First Muslims never ruled the world granted they had a pretty big empire at one time but to say they ruled the world is stretching it a bit the never controlled China,Japan,the far east or vast parts of Russia or alot of Europe or most of Africa.
[/quote]

Check with your own "Western" Historians:

Muslims ruled Western China.

Muslims ruled ** European Russia for 400 years **. (I may be a little wrong with the years, but they atleast ruled significant parts of European Russia - I'm adding this because, as a Muslim, I don't want to spread misinformation)

Muslims ruled Scicily (Scicily was actually becoming Arab !!! (not only Muslim, but Arab) ), southern Italy, a lot of Eastern Europe, southern France.

Did I say a ** lot of Eastern Europe ??? **

And Muslims ruled many areas of Africa. The word Mozambique is from the name of the governor it had "Musa bin Bique" (or something).

Again check with your ** Western Historians ** before you accuse us of making up facts.

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America lead the world in industry foremost as a result of WWII. This event and the cold war that followed created two societies that were unparelled in world history. Industrialization made possible the incredible thing that was the Great Society, in all it's forms. The 20th century very much was an American one. It did not become this to supress the muslim world. Bin Ladin himself does not really criticize the US until Israel went beyond certains lines with our support, during the era that was tri-polar. That is US, USSR, PRC as drivers of geopolitics, now very much changed. The economic divide of theory is now altered. This is your chance. Because of this America is not as opposed by other states in as many facets. The Muslim world ought to be aware of the difference and make positive moves towards a better version of their state of affairs. Be strong, but be just. Keep the anchors you have but navigate to a point of calmer more bountiful waters.

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All we do is talk talk talk, argue argue argue and debate debate debate. You really wana know why? It is the love for this dunya more than the akhira and it is the lack of fear of Allah.

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[quote]
Originally posted by Indian_Muslim:
** Check with your own "Western" Historians:

Muslims ruled Western China.

Muslims ruled ** European Russia for 400 years **. (I may be a little wrong with the years, but they atleast ruled significant parts of European Russia - I'm adding this because, as a Muslim, I don't want to spread misinformation)

Muslims ruled Scicily (Scicily was actually becoming Arab !!! (not only Muslim, but Arab) ), southern Italy, a lot of Eastern Europe, southern France.

Did I say a ** lot of Eastern Europe ??? **

And Muslims ruled many areas of Africa. The word Mozambique is from the name of the governor it had "Musa bin Bique" (or something).

Again check with your ** Western Historians ** before you accuse us of making up facts.

**
[/quote]

Controling bits and pieces of regions such as southern france western china european russia and parts of africa is alot different then ruling the world the muslims had a very big and powerful empire once no denying that and im not trying but to say it ruled the world is wrong because it never controled 100% of the world or even came close to that number no empire ever has and no empire ever will control the world thats all im saying.

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Muslims conquered the land. But they miserably failed to conquer the hearts of the people they won against.

That is why Islam got de-throned, be is Spain or Swiss or India.

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Oh I’m sorry.. Yes, Muslims didn’t rule the entire world. (I kind overlooked the “entire world” thing - and I thought you were denying the other areas that they ruled over).

Apologies

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Kumarakn.

i would argue your statement..

when muhammad bin qasim came to sindh.. he was taken in with open arms by the people.. for he emancipated them from the brutal rule of the princes etc in sindh/ baluchistan and Southern Punjab.

I see that as muslims winning the hearts of the people they ruled there..

Then there is the fact that when the Mongols invaded muslim lands and sacked baghdad dethroning the muslim government.. it was them.. they animists.. who converted to Islam.. to create the Ottoman empire 200 years later. and ottoman Khilafah 300 years later.

It is solid proof that it was islam winning the hearts of the people as well..

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murtaza..

there is rise and fall of civilisations and countries...

every civilisation that has come.. has gone through its ups and downs..

most of the time the reason was that they did not keep up with the changes around them.. thought themselves to be indestructible.. and pais the price

the small muslim state did that to the persian and byzantime empire.. thereby creating the muslim empire.. in the similar vein.. the muslim empire was cut up by smaller countries in time.. and finally broken up by the new empires.. of the west..

The only way for the muslims to reassert themselves in the current times is not through ruling land.. but through economic means..