Why worship?

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Hi everyone, this is my first post on this website. I don’t mean to offend anyone with my post, I am only posting here what I think and I would love to hear everyone else’s opinion so I can obtain a better understanding of islam and well religion in general. What I have written below is part of what goes on in my crazy little brain. I don’t mean to impose my opinions on anyone else but merely share my opinion with the hope that I can get some good constructive advice.

So I’ll jump directly into the topic.

I was born and raised in a muslim family but I’m not religious, my parents are religious and we have numerous debates/arguments. I am not an atheist nor am I an agnostic. An atheist by definition is someone who doesn’t believe in god, an agnostic is someone claims the existence or non-existence is unknowable. I believe in god.

My reason for believing in god is the existence of the universe, I believe there is a higher power who must have created it, Some people say the big bang, I believe the big bang was just a process. I believe we are god’s creation.

However, I don’t believe why we have to bow to him. I don’t understand why we have to pray/submit to him 5 times a day. Yes I understand he created us and without him we would be useless but that doesn’t mean I have to bow to him. I do believe we should try to communicate with him the same way we communicate with anyone we love. However I don’t understand why this form of communication/prayer should be so structured.

I love him the same way I love my parents, but I don’t bow to my parents. People say we should pray to God 5 times a day to thank him for all what he has given. Why does praying have to be so formal? As I mentioned earlier I believe in God and I love him so why can’t I, literally, just close my eyes each day and update him with what I did that day, for instance one day I close my eyes and say “hey god whats up? I know you are all omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient so you pretty much know that I got a job today, and but I would still like to inform you and I would really like to thank you for all your help because without you it would not have been possible, anyways gtg now, have fun listening to 6 billion prayers, bye” and now I open my eyes.

Why can’t that count for prayer? Why do we have to repeat the same words over and over again 5 times a day.
I don’t mean to be blasphemous but if I were like god, I would probably get bored of 1.5 billion muslims constantly saying and reciting the exact same words over and over again to me like 5 times a day and sometimes even more. I would probably get really annoyed if someone constantly bowed to me, I would probably tell him/her please go spend 2 hours at habitat for humanity or engineers without border rather than praying 20 rakah repeating the same stuff over and over again.

Just because God is stronger, more powerful, all-knowing, all-forgiving doesn’t mean we need to bow to him. If I have the ability to help someone, I believe it is my duty and obligation to help them, I am not doing anyone a favor, and the person I helped doesn’t need to bow to me in return.

Why does religion have to be so black and white? If you don’t pray in this way, 5 times a day, you are considered “kafir” no matter how much good you try to do. God almost sounds like a reallllllly nice dictator. I don’t believe that, thats what religion makes God seem like.

And also I hate this concept of blessings. People nowadays do good to collect blessings not because they really want to do good. It almost sounds like profit.

To summarize what I believe in a nutshell:
I believe in god, I believe we should communicate with him not bow to him, I believe we should love him and remember him.
However I don’t believe that we need to express our love in a very structured way since god is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient.

Can someone please explain to me the concept of worshipping and bowing to God?

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Re: Why worship?

Worshipping is not limited to salat/namaz/formal prayers. It has far greater meaning.

Namaz/salat is an obligatory command of God as exemplified and taught by the Prophet of Islam. One of the hadith highlights its spiritual benefit where it states that just like purity of a person who takes 5 baths a day in a river for purification is guaranteed, a true worshippers soul will be purified the same way through prayers. Not only its a regular reminder of Lord but it also keeps one in check for if a person even a minor sin then it becomes a challenge to stand in presence of God without feeling of impurity and guilt. From social perspective too uniformity in the way we pray plays a central role in forming a platform of brotherhood and a community with rituals around Hajj being a good example.

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Re: Why worship?

Okay I still don't understand why salat is obligatory but I really like the concept of doing wudu frequently during a day to keep oneself clean.

I don't need to pray to remind me I have sinned. When I sin I know I have sinned and I feel guilty and I deserve to be punished for it, as simple as that. However that being said, I need to ensure I don't repeat my mistakes again.

One needs to have a strong commitment to moral and ethical principles. (which is more evident in the west than any muslim nation on this planet)

There are a lot of other ways to form a community - culture, language, nationality...

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Re: Why worship?

Peace zamary,

I'll try to explain as per my best understanding and I hope many other members will also give you best explanation to help you out. Well I won't going to answer that all you wrote in post #1. I'll start step by step with one thing so that you, me and other can understand in better sense although we all are 'Talib-e-Ilam'.

You said why one needs to pray 5 times a days? Well first of all what differentiate us (muslims) from others that is Prayer. That is why 'Prayer' is the first Pillar of Islam. Almighty Allah ordered us to pray five times a day on daily basis but He didn't forced us to do so neither in Qur'an or any hadith 'Prayers' is ordred forcible way. Remember 'order' is something that you 'obey' or 'disobey' and it is only related to you, obeying or disobeying won't going to harm anyone not even the one true deity. Praying five time a day is purely for your own benefit, lets say like saving good deed in your fixed account but if u don't than there will be no saving end of the life.

In other words if you study harder in school than none will benefit from it except you. You'll get a title before your name i.e. Engr. Dr. Prof etc., b'coz of your hardworking but if you don't study harder than none will be in loss except you neither you'll get any title (title means the reward in the lifeafter). You'll face problem same as those illertrate who face in every single daily life routine works.

Lastly one who understand the reason why praying five times a day won't ask why to bow. :)

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Re: Why worship?

why dont you just take it as blind faith?
If you claim to love Him then he has commanded worship. Not because he needs it. Because he commands it.
That would be enough

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Re: Why worship?

Praying means remembrance, why wouldn't you love to remember your Beloved?

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Re: Why worship?

"I love him the same way I love my parents, but I don't bow to my parents. People say we should pray to God 5 times a day to thank him for all what he has given. Why does praying have to be so formal? As I mentioned earlier I believe in God and I love him so why can't I, literally, just close my eyes each day and update him with what I did that day, for instance one day I close my eyes and say "hey god whats up? I know you are all omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient so you pretty much know that I got a job today, and but I would still like to inform you and I would really like to thank you for all your help because without you it would not have been possible, anyways gtg now, have fun listening to 6 billion prayers, bye" and now I open my eyes"

The way you mention remembering God as if He was your buddy.
You obviously been watching to many films where the kid gets down on his knees before bedtime and "talks" to god suchly.

Btw how old are you? and where are you from?

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Re: Why worship?

I'm more interested in knowing what school zamaray went to?

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Re: Why worship?

Peace zmaray

If you can accept that a blind man can see nothing, a seeing man can see as far as space allows, and there are spaces beyond what the eye can see ... then you will also accept that there is intellect, intuition and wisdom ... Each stage becoming harder to "grasp" ...

It is impossible to rationalise the "reason" for praying "5 times a day" in the way that we were told ... But perhaps you might be able to consider it like medicine ... If the doctor gives you medicine to take 15 ml ... 3 times a day ... you may rationalise that if you drink more medicine say 25 ml ... 4 times a day it would be more effective ... If there is trust regarding the prescription of doctors for their knowledge ... then why is there no trust in the prescription of Allah (SWT) for His Knowledge?

You cannot always apply your reasoning skills, sometimes they don't work to the extents they need to go ... Perhaps Allah (SWT) wants to see how much you trust Him ... do you trust Him enough to follow His advice or do you trust your own intellect that has been given you both to serve you but also to test you?

It may be that the prayer size and timing has a unique spiritual affect that we are "blind" to ... But the key is about trust ... I call it the iterative process ... Place some trust and follow, do this for some time and you will begin to notice the real benefit on praying on time in a structured way ... Perhaps these times are when we are most likely to sin without knowing - so if we prayed in those times we would be saved from those sins? Our body has a regular heart beat ... What would happen if we had irregular heart beats? That would be a disease of the heart ... right?

The days and nights the seasons and stars all serve a great purpose when they are organised ... Organised prayer brings people to masjid together - it serves social ends too ... Organised timings for prayer can help schedule manage the daily affairs in your life ... Perhaps Allah (SWT) is telling us that "it is good to be structured and organised" - If I went for a job interview and said I want to come to work when I want to and leave when I want to and I love to work there - they will show me the door ... Why don't we question them as well? Resume's and applications buzz word is organised - not disorganised ...

My counter-question to you is - if your life benefits in pattern and routine and you require this from others - then why do you not cast this higher standard with The One to Whom you pray .... ??? Would you forsake a better thing and replace it with something worse for the One you love?

If you truly want to know the "reason" for structured prayer I can't tell you it ... you have to try it out and experience it.

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Re: Why worship?

Dude, you are trying to use too much logic with religion. That will get you nowhere. If you continue to rationally question faith, you'll find it harder and harder to believe all the stories, promises and threats that are part of most organized religions.

Besides the less likely case of you actually refuting and rejecting faith (millions do, but billions arent able to), either you will end up in not literally believing it but culturally following it for the sake of compliance with your society, or you will make up or absorb circular logic and modified theories/stories for it to somehow fit with your intelligence.

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Re: Why worship?

Peace zmaray

Do you have any further questions on what I have written in post #9 ?

I have a question for you ... Have you ever questioned why you do what you want? ... My point being that there is probably greater cause to question our own intentions and actions because we have lower insight on potential consequences, whereas Allah (SWT)Who Knows all things ... And Loves us ... W should have less doubt regarding Him and question Him less ...especially if we conclude that we could not possibly know things like He Knows things.