Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

And how Indians contributed in its radicalization right from the beginning. A very interesting article, a MUST READ in my view. Even though its written by an Indian (I believe), its an eye-opener for many indians.

The topic is slightly misleading though. Why is Pakistan such a mess? Because India’s founding fathers set it up to fail.

Why Is Pakistan Such a Mess? Blame India.

After a year in office, Modi’s gestures of conciliation toward Islamabad have gone nowhere. That’s because India’s founding fathers set Pakistan up to fail.

*=left]BY NISID HAJARI
*=left]MAY 26, 2015

https://foreignpolicymag.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/453339730pakistancrop.jpg?w=960&h=460&crop=1

Of all the hopes raised by Narendra Modi’s election as prime minister of India one year ago, perhaps the grandest was ending the toxic, decades-long rivalry with Pakistan. Inviting his counterpart Nawaz Sharif to the swearing-in — remarkably, a first since their nations were born out of the British Raj in 1947 — was a bold and welcome gesture. Yet within months of Modi’s inauguration, Indian and Pakistani forces exchanged some of the most intense shelling in years along their de facto border in Kashmir. Incipient peace talks foundered. And in April, a Pakistani court freed on bailZaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, operational commander of the militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LT) and the alleged mastermind of the 2008 Mumbai terrorist attacks, infuriating many in India.

Most Indians believe Pakistan’s generals have little interest in peace, and they’re not entirely wrong. For decades now, hyping the threat from across the border has won the army disproportionate resources and influence in Pakistan. It’s also fueled the military’s most dangerous and destabilizing policies — from its covert support of the Taliban and anti-India militants such as LT, to the rapid buildup of its nuclear arsenal. One can understand why Modi might see no point in engaging until presented with a less intractable interlocutor across the border.

But however exaggerated Pakistan’s fears may be now, Indian leaders bear great responsibility for creating them in the first place. Their resistance to the very idea of Pakistan made the 1947 partition of the subcontinent far bitterer than it needed to be. Within hours of independence, huge sectarian massacres had broken out on both sides of the border; anywhere from 200,000 to a million people would ultimately lose their lives in the slaughter. Pakistan reeled under a tidal wave of refugees, its economy and its government paralyzed and half-formed. Out of that crucible emerged a not-unreasonable conviction that larger, more powerful India hoped to strangle the infant Pakistan in its cradle — an anxiety that Pakistan, as the perpetually weaker party, has never entirely been able to shake.

Then as now, Indian leaders swore that they sought only brotherhood and amity between their two nations, and that Muslims in both should live free of fear. They responded to charges of warmongering by invoking their fealty to Mohandas K. Gandhi — the “saint of truth and nonviolence,” in the words of India’s first prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru. In fact, Nehru, and Gandhi himself — the sainted “Mahatma,” or “great soul” — helped breed the fears that still haunt Pakistan today.

**There’s little question, for instance, that Gandhi’s leadership of the Indian nationalist movement in the 1930s and 1940s contributed to Muslim alienation and the desire for an independent homeland. **He introduced religion into a freedom movement that had until then been the province of secular lawyers and intellectuals, couching his appeals to India’s masses in largely Hindu terms. (“His Hindu nationalism spoils everything,” Russian writer Leo Tolstoy wrote of Gandhi’s early years as a rabble-rouser.) Even as Gandhi’s Indian National Congress party claimed to speak for all citizens, its membership remained more than 90 percent Hindu.

Muslims, who formed a little under a quarter of the 400 million citizens of pre-independence India, could judge from Congress’s electoral victories in the 1930s what life would look like if the party took over from the British: Hindus would control Parliament and the bureaucracy, the courts and the schools; they’d favor their co-religionists with jobs, contracts, and political favors. The louder Gandhi and Nehru derided the idea of creating a separate state for Muslims, the more necessary one seemed.

**
Ironically, Gandhi may have done the most damage at what is normally considered his moment of triumph — the waning months of British rule.** When the first pre-Partition riots between Hindus and Muslims broke out in Calcutta in August 1946, exactly one year before independence, he endorsed the idea that thugs loyal to Mohammad Ali Jinnah, leader of the Muslim League, the country’s dominant Muslim party, had deliberately provoked the killings. The truth is hardly so clear-cut: It appears more likely that both sides geared up for violence during scheduled pro-Pakistan demonstrations, and initial clashes quickly spiraled out of control.

Two months later, after lurid reports emerged of a massacre of Hindus in the remote district of Noakhali in far eastern Bengal, Gandhi fueled Hindu hysteria rather than tamping it down. Nearing 80 by then, his political ideas outdated and his instincts dulled by years of adulation, he remained the most influential figure in the country. His evening prayer addresses were quoted and heeded widely. While some Congress figures presented over-hyped casualty counts for the massacre — party chief J.B. Kripalani estimated a death toll in the millions, though the final tally ended up less than 200 — Gandhi focused on wildly exaggerated claims that marauders had raped tens of thousands of Hindu women. Controversially, he advised the latter to “suffocate themselves or … bite their tongues to end their lives” rather than allow themselves to be raped.

Within weeks, local Congress politicians in the nearby state of Bihar were leading ugly rallies calling for Hindus to avenge the women of Noakhali. According to New York Times reporter George Jones, in their foaming outrage “it became rather difficult to differentiate” between the vicious sectarianism of Congress and radical Hindu groups like the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), whose cadres had begun drilling with weapons to prevent the Partition of India.

Huge mobs formed in Bihar — where Hindus outnumbered Muslims 7 to 1 — and spread across the monsoon-soaked countryside.

Huge mobs formed in Bihar — where Hindus outnumbered Muslims 7 to 1 — and spread across the monsoon-soaked countryside. In a fortnight of killing, they slaughtered more than 7,000 Muslims. The pogroms virtually eliminated any hope of compromise between Congress and the League.Equally troubling was the moral cover the Mahatma granted his longtime followers Nehru and “Sardar” Vallabhbhai Patel — a Gujarati strongman much admired by Modi, who also hails from Gujarat and who served as the state’s chief minister for over a decade. Echoing Gandhi’s injunction against pushing anyone into Pakistan against their wishes, Nehru and Patel insisted that the huge provinces of Punjab and Bengal be split into Muslim and non-Muslim halves, with the latter areas remaining with India.

Jinnah rightly argued that such a division would cause chaos. Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs were inextricably mixed in the Punjab, with the latter in particular spread across both sides of the proposed border. Sikh leaders vowed not to allow their community to be split in half. They helped set off the chain of Partition riots in August 1947 by targeting and trying to drive out Muslims from India’s half of the province, in part to make room for their Sikh brethren relocating from the other side.

Jinnah also correctly predicted that a too-weak Pakistan, stripped of the great port and industrial center of Calcutta, would be deeply insecure. Fixated on building up its own military capabilities and undermining India’s, it would be a source of endless instability in the region. Yet Nehru and Patel wanted it to be even weaker. They contested every last phone and fighter jet in the division of colonial assets and gloated that Jinnah’s rump state would soon beg to reunite with India.
Worse, Congress leaders threatened to derail the handover if they weren’t given power almost immediately. The pressure explains why Britain’s last viceroy, Lord Louis Mountbatten, rushed forward the date of the British withdrawal by 10 months, leaving Pakistan little more than 10 weeks to get established. (Excoriated ever since, the British seemed vaguely to believe they might keep governing Pakistan until the state had gotten on its feet.) Nehru and Patel cared little for Jinnah’s difficulties. “No one asked Pakistan to secede,” Patel growled when pressed by Mountbatten to show more flexibility.

Yes, once the Partition riots broke out, Gandhi and Nehru strove valiantly to rein in the killings, physically risking their own lives to chastise angry mobs of Hindus and Sikhs. Yet to many Pakistanis, these individual efforts counted for little. Gandhi and Nehru couldn’t stop underlings from sabotaging consignments of weapons and military stores being transferred to Pakistan. They didn’t prevent Patel from shipping out trainloads of Muslims from Delhi and elsewhere, which raised fears that India meant to overwhelm its neighbor with refugees. They didn’t silence Kripalani and other Congress leaders, who warned Hindus living in Pakistan to emigrate and thus drained Jinnah’s new nation of many of its clerks, bankers, doctors and traders.

Nor did the Indian leaders show much compunction about using force when it suited them. After Pakistan accepted the accession of Junagadh, a tiny kingdom on the Arabian Sea with a Muslim ruler but almost entirely Hindu population, Congress tried to spark a revolt within the territory — led by Samaldas Gandhi, a nephew of the Mahatma’s; eventually, Indian tanks decided the issue. When Pakistan attempted in October 1947 to launch a parallel uprising in Kashmir — a much bigger, richer state with a Hindu king and Muslim-majority population — Indian troops again swooped in to seize control.

The pacifist Gandhi, who had earlier tried to persuade Kashmir’s maharajah to accede to India, heartily approved of the lightning intervention: “Any encroachment on our land should … be defended by violence, if not by nonviolence,” he told Patel. After Gandhi’s assassination in January 1948, Nehru continued to cite the Mahatma’s blessings to reject any suggestion of backing down in Kashmir.

Gandhi’s motivations may have been pure. Yet he and his political heirs never fully appreciated how the massive power imbalance between India and Pakistan lent a darker hue to their actions. To this day, Indian leaders appear more concerned with staking out the moral high ground on Kashmir and responding to every provocation along the border than with addressing Pakistan’s quite-valid strategic insecurities.

This serves no one except radicals on both sides. With rabid 24-hour satellite channels seizing upon every cross-border attack or perceived diplomatic affront, jingoism is on the rise. Indian strategists talk loosely of strikingacross the border in the event of another Mumbai-style terrorist attack; Pakistani officials speak with disturbing ease of responding with tactical nuclear weapons. From their safe havens in Pakistan meanwhile, the Taliban have launched one of the bloodiest spring offensives in years in Afghanistan, even as U.S. forces prepare to draw down there. If he truly hopes to break the deadlock on the subcontinent, Modi needs to do something even Gandhi could not: give Pakistan, a nation born out of paranoia about Hindu dominance, less to fear.

Why Is Pakistan Such a Mess? Blame India. | Foreign Policy

Re: Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

i dont get it. at best, this clown can argue that hindus and muslims left pakistan and india respectively in panic when they could have stayed put. pakistan chose to not be secular, not nehru or gandhi. this is what scared sikh and hindu minorities out of pakistan into india over a few years post-partition, while muslims still live in india despite periodic killings and riots and discrimination because at least on paper they have rights. hindu pakistanis didnt even have a legal way to register marriages until like last week. its like saying, what - you hindus are still here?

also, the article not so sneakily implies draining pakistan of hindus and sikhs is what made pakistan a mess. really.. you think this is the reason?

Re: Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

Either you didnt read it completely or you read it in a rush. I think he has clearly said that 1930s and 40s, Gandhi pushed the independence movement towards Hinduism rather than keeping it secular. Leaving no choice for Quaid-e-Azam to start talking about seperate place for Muslims.
Your point about legal marriage for Hindus is valid but hey, In Pakistan 3000 Hindus arent burnt alive either nor the person who gives such orders later becomes its PM :slight_smile:

An I dont see where article implies about draining Pak of Hindus and Sikhs? It does say about how brutally hindus and sikhs slaughtered Muslims before and after partition

Re: Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

but those are reasons why jinnah and the muslim league wanted pakistan in the first place, not reasons why pakistan became scared of india or why pakistan is a mess or whatever the guy is claiming. (gandhi didnt push for hinduism, he used hindu mythology as well as quranic quotes and mullahs like abul kalam azad to reach the uneducated masses, pushed for the khilafat movement etc, which gave the landlords party the panic excuse that “hindus” were taking over - but that is another discussion).

in pakistan, you would be hard-pressed to find 3000 people who agree to being hindus, forget burning them alive. even your celebs like danish kaneria has to be all “mashallah jazakallah” at his post match interviews.

as for hindus and sikhs killing muslims, i’m sure there was plenty of that going around in punjab. do you think muslims were saints? the 1946 riots were initiated by the muslim league’s misguided call for direct action day - which was taken by a bunch of muslim goons as kill hindus day in bengal. and that lead to the muslim massacres of bihar. none of this is news, or even relevant to why pakistan is a mess.

the only bit in there which seems to be about post-partition is about the movement of hindus and muslims by kripalani’s fear mongering and patel’s shipping muslims to lahore, which is what i mentioned before.

Re: Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

Sorry to be blunt but that’s most idiotic thing i have heard all week. I have met Indian Hindus who just get used to words like “Inshallah” and say this without even knowing. I have heard many Indian Hindu celebrities using these terms (Sure they are not forced by Indian muslims) as well mainly because of few Muslim celebrities around them using these words. In Pakistan’s case Kaneria didn’t have to use these to please Muslims but mainly because 98% people around him used them on daily basis.

Re: Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

right, and he just happens to have a muslim name because 98% of people around him are muslims. the guy is conditioned to be camoflaged as a muslim in pakistani society - right from his name to the way he speaks.

Re: Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

I think since india nuclearised in the 70s first, we pakistanis aren’t exactly powerful enemies! just babies! if you can’t nuclearise and have friends or conquer other countries that see in the eye!

Re: Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

How convenient of you to completely ignore how there are so many Hindu ‘Urdu speaking’ Bollywood celebrities who proudly throw words like MashAllah/InshAllah left right, and centre. Do they also do this out of fear of beef eating Pakistani Muslims, or it’s just a self assuring figure of speech most Asians have naturally picked up? Your point about minoirty discrimantion is well and corrected, but clutching on such idiotically desperate straw man arguments invalidates whatever sense you are making. Has Danish Kaneria stopped wearing those red Hindu wrist bands and chains? Has he never made Hindu prayer signs on the field?Has he never been filmed by Pakistan media holding grand poojas before an important series? How moorish and manipulating of you to judge his religious freedom by his apperance. How Hindu is he supposed to look and sound?

Muslim woman denied flat in Mumbai - The Times of India

Indians have all kinds of excuses to downplay incidents like above by pointing fingers at the neighbour that never claimed to be secular or even a functioning democarcy! Just read the utterly vile anti Islam and Muslims comments of Hindu extremists under that article. You’d never find such unaplogetically racist and violent filth uttered against Hindu Pakistanis under any of Pakistan’s online publications. Never. I know Indian trolls on internet love to use so called ‘on paper’ rights to push all kinds of discrimination, communal violence, hatred and bigotry in their country under the carpet, and dilute the seriousness and severity of the dangers Muslims face in the so called ‘secular’ country.

Re: Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

Pakistan’s problem is that it never had true democarcy and less fortunate members of the soceity always bore the burnt for it - whether its the minority members and working class population to extreme poverty stricken groups.

Look at KPK, after a such a long time revolutionary Local Government polls are taking place and see how many minoirity members are given tickets by all parties. For all the slack Jamat e Islami gets, it has fielded 57 minority candidates from Peshawar alone. More than any other party. Imagine if we didn’t have such self imposed blocked on LG polls, so many minority candidates would’ve been promoted to national level who would’ve made a fair contributions to highlight issues concering their communities anf fight for their very local needs to national recognitions. If parties like PPP and PMLN can stop blocking Local Government reforms to protect their family and friends from losing influence to bunch of newbies, Pakistani democarcy would not only gain strenghth but finally give opportunities to less unfortuante members of the society to get a true political represenattion.

Secularism and communal harmony is so much more than cosmetic changes to constitution. The point remains the same, despite all flaws in Pakistan system, Muslim to non Muslim violence and descrimination is significantly low. Maybe its the Pakistani Hindus who have issues living in predominantly Muslim societies, hence prefer migrating to India to live in Hindu neighbourhoods. Just like Indian Muslims were less inclined to move out of India as long as Muslim neighbourhoods weren’t completely lost as result of partition.

Re: Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

By the way, Muslims still live in India because the Muslim population of India alone is the total size of Pakistan! And at one point in time (and for a long time), there were more Muslims in India than in Pakistan! So yes, it is never too easy to drive such a large population out of your country no matter how many communal riots, violence and discrimination you initiate and perpetuate. The number is just far too big.

All this crying about Pakistani Hindus running away from their Muslim neighbours to re-unite with their Hindu communities in India. I wonder exactly how many millions and millions of Indian Muslims were needed to leave India post 1953 to make any sort of dent on the size of the Muslim population in India. A very poor argument all together. Reduce the size of Indian Muslim population to the size of minorities in Pakistan and then we’ll which country they choose to live in.

Re: Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

Um…no I think we’ve to revisit history a lil.

Quaid never wanted to have Pakistan at first place. Remember he was in Congress, didnt even join Muslim League. But as this article has explained that in 30s and 40s how muslims in India were alienated and pushed to the wall by talking about Hinduism is what triggered Quaid to part his ways with congress as well and join the movement.

Secondly , I’m shocking surprised to read that you cant find 3000 hindus in Pakistan? Wut r u talking about? There are tens of thousands of hindus in rural Sindh only. And many many I know luv Pakistan. And that argument about danesh kaneria is as bad as many indians saying that Pakistan tortured Mohammad Yousuf (then Yousuf yuhana) to convert to islam. LOL.

About 1946, I dont know anything about it but on wut scale was it as compared to bihar or post-partition riots?? Remember the historians werent radical muslims to only write about these barbaric massacres and not mention 1946.

Re: Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

Great read on history, just a quick question though, was KPK part of Afghanistan before??? If so how did pakistan come to acquire the land? and what about balochistan?

Re: Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

Um.. I dont think so. I think its been with Pakistan since inception

Re: Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

So was KPK part of India as well?

Re: Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

You raised an interesting question about KPK and this is what I found from wiki pages. It actually added up to my knowledge as well:

Re: Why was Pakistan needed at first place??

ask your abdur rahman khan (not the abdur rehman who made the grand mosque of Cordoba, a jewel in Spain) when he signed those borders and afghanistan affirmed those borders in 1919 when it got the right to run its own foreign policy aside from British India.

As for the NWFP plebiscite, you have to be fair. Who in india pakistan scenario actually ran a plebiscite where independence or status quo was the option? You can say Hyderabad Daccan but what happened to them ?

PS Why would princely states be allowed to vote when it doesn’t concern them? It is like saying that the khan of qalat was sovereign over quetta when it came under british balochistan. People need to research the dynamics of india at partition. The only reason that the princely states were allowed was so that the rulers can do their bhangra naach in a limited area and then show up to british darbar like a good servant when the empire needed them !