why the whole Arab world always failed to over-throw dictatorship?

Qadafi is ruling Libya for last 35 years. President Asad ruled Syria for almost 28 years and now his son runs it. Saudi Arabia is under a kingdom dictatorship for almost 80 years and still there are no signs of its downfall. Iraq was ruled by Saddam for almost 30 years and if he was not over-thrown by Americans, he would still be enjoying an easy ride. Jordan is under a kingdom rule for over 60 years. And the list simple goes on and on….

On the other hand, in the mean time, brave Pakistanis overthrew Military Dictator Ayub Khan in late 60s after sacrificing tons of life. Bengalis in East Pakistan decided to protest against the political injustices caused by dictators and corrupt politicians of West Pakistan and finally after losing many lives got their own country. When Shah Iran decided to act as dictator, a historical movement led by Khomeini overthrew him and his regime. Moreover, in Indonesia we observed a historic movement to get rid of the dictatorship in which literally millions of people sacrificed their lives and the list goes on and on…….

Therefore, the questions I have:

What is wrong with Arab people? Are they too lazy or laid-back or simply too courage less?

I am curious to know why has the world never observed a legitimate movement in any of the Arab countries for the revival of the democracy?

Do you guys think that this political stagnancy will remain the same in Arab countries or are there any signs for a new relationship between religion and politics in Arab world?

or may be that is how they like to be ruled…by force, by power, by dictatorship, by terror, by horror…

In essence, Arabs always blamed Israel, the United States, and their own colonial past for their woes. However, it is time for them to start looking closer to home for the causes.

You said it all in your post. THey blame it on others while the problem lies somewhere else...very close to them.
I would also like to see Arab nations becoming democratic but to impose and force them to tranform their systems over night would not do any good either.

more later...

Re: why the whole Arab world always failed to over-throw dictatorship?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by phoenixdesi: *

Therefore, the questions I have:

What is wrong with Arab people? Are they too lazy or laid-back or simply too courage less?

or may be that is how they like to be ruled....by force, by power, by dictatorship, by terror, by horror.......

[/QUOTE]

I don't think they lack courage, i think it's more likely they see a conflict with democracy and their very literal and stagnant version of Islam. The insistence on following 7th century scholars kills any movements towards progress IMO.

I know exactly where this thread will end up!

If you're a Pakistani then it should be not difficult for you to apprehend why almost all Arab countries are being ruled by dictators. Arabs, like Pakistanis, believe in Messihas who come down from the sky to extricate them from all of their miseries and problems or to rescue them from evil Kafirs. Saddam, Kaddafi or Asad they all were brutal dictators but enjoyed sympathy of the bulk of their people. Just take a look at Pakistan, how a clown has been ruling this country for more than five years and despite of his destructive politics >>if one can call it politics at all<< he is revered by the most Pakistanis.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by shawaiz: *
If you're a Pakistani then it should be not difficult for you to apprehend why almost all Arab countries are being ruled by dictators. Arabs, like Pakistanis, believe in Messihas who come down from the sky to extricate them from all of their miseries and problems or to rescue them from evil Kafirs. Saddam, Kaddafi or Asad they all were brutal dictators but enjoyed sympathy of the bulk of their people. Just take a look at Pakistan, how a clown has been ruling this country for more than five years and despite of his destructive politics >>if one can call it politics at all<< he is revered by the most Pakistanis.
[/QUOTE]

i guess you have a point but as i mentioned in my post earlier, most of the non-arab muslim countries have shown some kind of resistance against the fascist system i.e. pakistan, iran, indonesia etc. I agree that we pakistanis also believe in "Messihas" who come down from the sky to extricate them from all of their miseries but still after 5, 10 or 15 years, we stand up and force the dictator either to leave ( ayub khan) or to bring some kind of democratic set-up (no matter how fake that system would be.)

On the other hand, in arab countries for decades, we have a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control and extreme pride in country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed at all. And yet, we have not seen one successful revolution by arab people in any of these countries....

Do you think it is so easy to overthrow blood thirsty dictatorships do you know how many times people try to kill dictators like Mubarak and Ghaddafi, you don't hear on the news but daily people are trying to rid themselves of these puppets and stooges,ghaddafi does'nt even trust male guards any more and employs a loyal bunch of female guards instead.

Military coups and change in leaderships are not easy tasks and take very careful planning and execution.

I will not just blame the Arabs on this issue, the issue is much broader and skin deep in nature and it starts from our homes. May be I am totally off the mark, but this is what I feel. Countries with muslim majority populations, or the so called muslim countries have been developing into them some kind of a "Coup Culture" and "Dictaor-Tolrance" in the last few decades. This might be older, but I think recently the acceptance of this transgression/Zulm has become a norm. The tolerance to Zulm/JaBar has turned us even more hypocritical and irresponsive in nature.

Mind you that I am not talking about any form of government, or any particular type of monarchy, democracy, khilafah or even Emirates. The point is under any circumstances the urge to resist the JaBar/Zalim is no more there. Being a muslim I think that accepting Zulm/injustice is a bigger sin than being a transgressor. In any form of government the utter disrespect of laws and changing the laws to benefit your self is one level of zulam/ injustice that we tolerate every day. My friend here sited examples from the arab world, and then some from non arab muslim world as well, but the examples are of removing leaderships. In my eyes, leadership is the tip of the iceberg. The iceberg its self is us as a society and muslims as ummah. I am talking about standing out against injustice on very personal and local level. We don’t see that going on in muslim countries. As I said, the tolerance to this zulm has developed a hypocritical response. For example, the suicide missions in Iraq, had we used the same tactics against Saddam in 70’s there would have not been a Saddam. On the other hand our parents and grand parents first allowed a person to change laws so that he can benefit his rule, Justice Nisar and General Ayub did the same. We accepted that Zulm, and we never resisted. Hence giving a signal to the leadership that in both cases that Zulm and injustice is ok.

Let me give you a current example of blatant injustice and our acceptance. There is this lawyer in Karachi who filed a case against the to-be Prime Minister of Pakistan, that he is ineligible for Prime Ministership. The lawyer’s house was raided by the police telling the family that some thief’s have been seen entering his house. The lawyer was taken to the police station for questioning, and has not been seen for the last there weeks. None of the family members have heard anything from the police. He is a father of three children’s and is missing since that night. So where does the buck stops?*

I think when we allow smaller injustices/Zulms go unnoticed in our houses it creates a very bad precedent for the society. We are facing this dilemma right now; I see the leadership as the tip of Injustice in muslim countries.

  • The story has been widely reported in major Pakistani newspapers.

mini me agree with your signature very much

Nationalism has destroyed the concept of being just

Nationalism is ugly sister of racism!

ak, no matter where someone might live, if they are for freedom, justice, and liberty then they are Americans at heart. :flower1:

^ missing the point completely

The point is regarding nationalism and how stupid of an idea it is, nationalism holds similar ideals as racism and needs to be rejected totally!

If nationalism can be equated to racism, then so can religion because many have the belief that their religion is superior to others and practice discrimination or prejudice based on religion.

I think someone needs to study their definition of 'racism' a bit more closely. The word is being tossed around quite carelessly.

Here is the dictionary definition:

rac·ism Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

Faisal, the term racism has been used quite frequently on this board by those who claim discrimination because of religion, including in this article you just posted last week.

race Pronunciation Key (râs)
n.
A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution

Why tyrants rule Arabs

the article provides a few reasons
why and how the arab world has transformed from the most literate part of the world to an opperesed society
an interesting read

Why tyrants rule Arabs

For 60 years, the West has propped up Arab despots, creating poverty and illiteracy where education once thrived

GWYNNE DYER

It was just a random statistic, but a telling one: Only 300 books were translated into Arabic last year. That is about one foreign title per million Arabs. For comparison’s sake, Greece translated 1,500 foreign-language books, or about 150 titles per million Greeks. Why is the Arab world so far behind, not only in this but in practically all the arts and sciences?

The first-order answer is poverty and lack of education: Almost half of Arabic-speaking women are illiterate.

But the Arab world used to be the most literate part of the planet; what went wrong? Tyranny and economic failure, obviously. But why is tyranny such a problem in the Arab world? That brings us to the nub of the matter.

In a speech in November, 2003, President George W. Bush revisited his familiar refrain about how the West has to remake the Arab world in its own image in order to stop the terrorism: “Sixty years of Western nations excusing and accommodating the lack of freedom in the Middle East did nothing to make us safe … because in the long run, stability cannot be purchased at the expense of liberty” — as if the Arab world had wilfully chosen to be ruled by these corrupt and incompetent tyrannies.

But the West didn’t just “excuse and accommodate” these regimes. It created them, in order to protect its own interests — and it spent the latter half of the 20th century keeping them in power for the same reason.

It was Britain that carved the kingdom of Jordan out of the old Ottoman province of Syria after World War I and put the Hashemite ruling family on the throne that it still occupies.

France similarly carved Lebanon out of Syria in order to create a loyal Christian-majority state that controlled most of the Syrian coastline — and when time and a higher Muslim birth rate eventually led to a revolt against the Maronite Christian stranglehold on power in Lebanon in 1958, U.S. troops were sent in to restore it. The Lebanese civil war of 1975-'90, tangled though it was, was basically a continuation of that struggle.

Britain also imposed a Hashemite monarchy on Iraq after 1918, and deliberately perpetuated the political monopoly of the Sunni minority that it had inherited from Turkish rule.

When the Iraqi monarchy was finally overthrown in 1958 and the Baath party won the struggle that followed, the CIA gave the Iraqi Baathists the names of all the senior members of the Iraqi Communist party (then the main political vehicle of the Shias) so they could be liquidated.

It was Britain that turned the traditional sheikhdoms in the Gulf into separate little sovereign states and absolute monarchies, carving Kuwait out of Iraq in the process. Saudi Arabia, however, was a joint Anglo-U.S. project.

The British Foreign Office welcomed the Egyptian generals’ overthrow of King Farouk and the destruction of the country’s old nationalist political parties, failing to foresee that Gamal Abdul Nasser would eventually take over the Suez Canal. When he did, the foreign office conspired with France and Israel to attack Egypt in a failed attempt to overthrow him.

Once Nasser died and was succeeded by generals more willing to play along with the West — Anwar Sadat, and now Hosni Mubarak — Egypt became Washington’s favourite Arab state. To help these thinly disguised dictators to hang on to power, Egypt has ranked among the top three recipients of U.S. foreign aid almost every year for the past quarter-century. And so it goes.

Britain welcomed the coup by Col. Moammar Gadhafi in Libya in 1969, mistakenly seeing him as a malleable young man who could serve the West’s purposes.

The United States and France both supported the old dictator Habib Bourguiba in Tunisia, and still back his successor Ben Ali today. They always backed the Moroccan monarchy no matter how repressive it became, and they both gave unquestioning support to the Algerian generals who cancelled the elections of 1991. They did not ever waver in their support through the savage insurgency unleashed by the suppression of the elections that killed an estimated 120,000 Algerians over the next 10 years.

“Excuse and accommodate”? The West created the modern Middle East, from its rotten regimes down to its ridiculous borders, and it did so with contemptuous disregard for the wishes of the local people.

It is indeed a problem that most Arab governments are corrupt autocracies that breed hatred and despair in their own people, which then fuels terrorism against the West, but it was the West that created the problem — and invading Iraq won’t solve it.

If the U.S. really wants to foster Arab democracy, it might try making all that aid to Egypt conditional on prompt democratic reforms. But I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Source

Correct me if I am wrong, but judaism, in general, is a religion and a race at the same time. Right or wrong? Muslims don’t consider themselves as a single race. Not that I am aware of.

Re: why the whole Arab world always failed to over-throw dictatorship?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by phoenixdesi: *
On the other hand, in the mean time, brave Pakistanis overthrew Military Dictator Ayub Khan in late 60s after sacrificing tons of life.

[/QUOTE]

Errr... Ayub Khan was overthrown? Which bubble did you emerge from?

Ayub Khan simply handed over the reigns of power to another army general in the face of his own unpopularity - rule passing from one army dictator to another does in no way qualify as an overthrow!

The fact is that the countries that you named have generally had less brutal dictatorships than those in the arab world. In none of those countries, have you had, say, a dictator llike President Hafez Asad of Syria, who was willing to unleash his army and airforce and turn an entire Arab town (Hama) into smoking rubble for its political opposition to him. In a few days. he killed 25,000 of its people at least during his assault.

The only possibly similar example in any way is Yahya Khan's administrations actions in East Pakistan, and even there, the situation was reasonably stabilised (admittedly by the hard end of the boot of the Pakistan Army) until Indian troops crossed the border to avoid the traitorous insurgency being defeated. The Bengali traitors didn't get their own country - they had one handed to them on a plate by India

Opposition movements in the Arab world have never had similar support. The nearest example is when Palestinian refugees in Jordan tried to overthrow King Hussain, and Syria invaded Jordan in support of the rebels. But Israeli military pressure soon forced Syria to withdraw, and the Palestinians were crushed.

Dictators in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia and just about every single one of the Muslim countries that eventually transitioned to democracy ruled with what was, compared to Arab dictators, velvet lined gloves. It was always much, much easier in those nations for political opposition to organise under dictatorships than it is in the Arab world.

Iran itself is a special case, because the role of Ayatollahs in society enabled organized religious opposition to thrive in Iran even with religious leadership being in exile. The leaders of the rebellion did not even need to be in the country in order to inspire complete devotion, as people's religious beliefs did that role anyway.

//Why tyrants rule Arabs

For 60 years, the West has propped up Arab despots, creating poverty and illiteracy where education once thrived
//

I dont understand this...
You blame the West for everything. How did it come to the sorry state. Is there nothing that the ordinary Arab can do.

because they are gutless wonders. simple as that. They can't grapple with the fact that while the world has evolved they are still stuck in the 7th century. How could a perfect system ordained by GOD fall apart? THe jews, christians, kafir must have done it. SUch thinking re-inforces the biases against other faiths and people and inability to change their lives brings about hate and jealousy, which results in terrorism.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MiniMe: *
I will not just blame the Arabs on this issue, the issue is much broader and skin deep in nature and it starts from our homes. May be I am totally off the mark, but this is what I feel. Countries with muslim majority populations, or the so called muslim countries have been developing into them some kind of a "Coup Culture" and "Dictaor-Tolrance" in the last few decades. This might be older, but I think recently the acceptance of this transgression/Zulm has become a norm. The tolerance to Zulm/JaBar has turned us even more hypocritical and irresponsive in nature.

Mind you that I am not talking about any form of government, or any particular type of monarchy, democracy, khilafah or even Emirates. The point is under any circumstances the urge to resist the JaBar/Zalim is no more there. Being a muslim I think that accepting Zulm/injustice is a bigger sin than being a transgressor. In any form of government the utter disrespect of laws and changing the laws to benefit your self is one level of zulam/ injustice that we tolerate every day. My friend here sited examples from the arab world, and then some from non arab muslim world as well, but the examples are of removing leaderships. In my eyes, leadership is the tip of the iceberg. The iceberg its self is us as a society and muslims as ummah. I am talking about standing out against injustice on very personal and local level. We don’t see that going on in muslim countries. As I said, the tolerance to this zulm has developed a hypocritical response. For example, the suicide missions in Iraq, had we used the same tactics against Saddam in 70’s there would have not been a Saddam. On the other hand our parents and grand parents first allowed a person to change laws so that he can benefit his rule, Justice Nisar and General Ayub did the same. We accepted that Zulm, and we never resisted. Hence giving a signal to the leadership that in both cases that Zulm and injustice is ok.

Let me give you a current example of blatant injustice and our acceptance. There is this lawyer in Karachi who filed a case against the to-be Prime Minister of Pakistan, that he is ineligible for Prime Ministership. The lawyer’s house was raided by the police telling the family that some thief’s have been seen entering his house. The lawyer was taken to the police station for questioning, and has not been seen for the last there weeks. None of the family members have heard anything from the police. He is a father of three children’s and is missing since that night. So where does the buck stops?*

I think when we allow smaller injustices/Zulms go unnoticed in our houses it creates a very bad precedent for the society. We are facing this dilemma right now; I see the leadership as the tip of Injustice in muslim countries.

  • The story has been widely reported in major Pakistani newspapers. [/QUOTE]

A very nice post again as well as deep philosophical perspective of aforementioned problem too.......but it means that the people in non-arab countries posses a lesser "threshold" against the distatorship in comparison to the arab countries.....however the question still remains there that why is that? one of the guppies suggested in his post that it was because the dictatorship in arab countries was much more brutal than non-arab countries i.e pak, bangladdesh, indonesia, iran....I am not sure how valid that reasoning is but it may be one of the reasons...I do know one thing for sure that the dictatorship in indonesia was very very brutal and millions of poople lose thier lives in that movement....

Now that i re-visit this problem again, i realize that most of the arab countries are doing pretty well from economic stand-point where as most of the non-arab countries that i mentioned in my earlier post for the sake of comparison were pretty poor .....So one may suggest that so far you are satisfying people basisc needs they careles about the system....just a thought....