why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

Mostly in line with ImranJaff, and finding the Quadiani stuff quite illogical and childish (You do not believe what I believe so you are a kafir. This is a plauge with us: Intolerance)

Quran is the only "sahifa" that is in Verbatim, cause Allah has promised that. This implies rest is subject to review.

Hadith were verbally narrated generation to generation for 200 years before they were written down. In the process so many were rejected as weak. Well the truth is, when people exchange words and carry it to others They get changed: either in interpretation or the exact words. Further, the personal opinion, cultural factors, practices and others usually get mixed-up, knowingly or unknowingly. That is why so many were rejected in the first place. So there is still every possibility that so-called weak one exist in Bukhari. Period.

Consequestly, everything should be open to debate except Quran. It is not the question of rejecting Hadith. It is the case of only ejecting those that are illogical, do not comply with nature, bearing the color of culture at that time , having the tint of persornal opinion, and so forth.

Some people place so much importance on every hadith that they surpass the importance of Quran that is a complete code of life, as Allah has declared. These are the very people who declares so much stuff as Haram. Unfortunately, Haram this and Haram that. Only a few thing are declared as Haram only by Allah, in Quran. Is not it? How one can have the courage to add to that list??

Thus we should not label people who question hadiths as Quadiani nor we assume the bu**sh*t of the best way of making muslims weak is make them part with hadith.

22

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

If you reject all ahadees then I have to say this;
zaat de kirlee tey shehteer nu jhuphay

23

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

It is a case of weak comprehension. Read again ... and carefully.

24

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

where did u read this hadith???

dont just twist any hadith and put it like this…
u really expect anyone to believe that Umar (ra) wud say such a thing???
have u even read the hadith which u r pointing at???

its not even close to the meaning that u imply here…

maybe u’ve been reading the wrong books…

25

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

classification of hadith is very different from rejection of hadith…
i assume u r intelligent enuff to realize that…

26

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

This waqaya called Qurtaas*.And has been narrated by Hazaraat Abdullah Bin Abbas And this waqaya is only Narrated by Him.Jaab ke wahaan Kasaraat se sahaba Majood thai Lakin is ke Bawajood kisi Sahaba Bajaz Hazarat Abdullah Bin Abbas ke kisi se koi Alfaz Maanqool nahi.In ke Age is Waqt 13 or 14 years thi Aur Tajooob yea hai woh Khud wahaan Moojood nahi thai.YEa App(Muhammad pbuh)ke intaqaal se koi 3 din pahlay ka waqaya hai.App ko Dard ke Shidaat thi.App nay farmaya ke Qalaam aur Dawaat laooo Main app ko aisi chiz Likh kar day daita hoo jis k baad tum Log Gumrah nahi hoo gaye Is per Hazaraat Umar Bin Khitab(RATA)nay Logo Ko Mukhatib kar ke kaha Muhammad(pbuh)ko dard ke Shidaat hai aur Umair Bin khitab nay yea kaha*
Haasbuna Kitabul Allah(Hamhare Liye ALlah ke kitab kafi hai)Whaan janad Hazarin Moojood thai in hoonay kaha ke Muhammad (pbuh)(MAaz Allah MAaz Allah) dard ke Shidaat se Bahki Bahki Baatain kar rahi hai.
**Yea *waqaya Qurtas* 1400 years se zarai Bahas jis ke buniyaad Firqa Warana Ikhitilaaf hai Yea riwayaat Bukhari main Moojood hai.IS ke sahaat Bhut Mashkook hai Bhut Ullema nay is per Tanqeeed ke hai.
Is waqaya ke Mashqooq Hoonay ke dalil yea bhi hai ke yea Waqaya Thursday ka bataya jata hai.Muhammad(pbuh)is ke baad 4 days Aur Hayaat rahi.App ke Inqaal Monday ko hooa tha aur app ke Halaat is Dooraan kafi Bahtar hoo gaye thi.Agar app ko kuch Tahrir Karana hoota tu app ke pass 4 days ke Moohlaat moojood thi.Lakin is ke Mutaliq ko Lafaz Mazkoor nahi ke App nay kuch Likhwaya hoo yea is waqaye ke Yaad dhani karaye hoo. is ke barak in dino app nay Bhut se hidayaat Irshaad farmaye.
Lakin is ke Umar bin Khitab Nay yea Kaha Hasbuna Kitabul Allah tu Kuch Khalaat nahi.Kion yea haqeeqaat hai Aur Quran ka dawa hai Ke humhare liye Allah ke Kitab kafi hai.Aur Hazaraat Umar bin Kitab ke HAd e Khilafaat is ke zinda Shadaat hai
HAsbuna kitab ul ALlah Kitny sadaqaat per Pabni hai.Quran kia kah raha hai bare main
(6:116) Allah’s laws based on truth and justice have been set forth in this Book in a complete form. None has the authority to make any change in these laws (18/27). This is because this Book has been sent down by Allah who hears and knows everything

(16:89) O Rasool as a witness against all of them (2/143, 4/41). Your evidence shall be that you had conveyed to them Our message which is contained in this Book revealed to you which clarifies everything and is a source of guidance, Rahmat and glad tidings to those who submit to it.

(07:3) O Jama’at-ul-Momineen follow only that which has been revealed to you by your Rabb and do not follow another ally. This course of life is clear but people generally do not follow it absolutely

(10:19) O Rasool! the ultimate object of your mission is to eliminate the differences amongst human beings and make them one Ummah as they were at the beginning of human history. They created differences and were split. Had We wanted We could have forced them to form one united Ummah but this would have deprived them of the freedom of will and choice. We sent them Our guidance, by following which they could return to being a united Ummah

**(5:48 ) O Rasool, likewise We have sent you a Book based on truth. It validates and subsumes the true teachings of the earlier Books. You should judge between them according to what Allah has revealed and do not follow their desires which make you deviate from the truth. You might ask yourself when Allah’s guidance sent to all the Anbia was the same (and differences were created subsequently by their followers) why did Allah not compel the latter to follow His Laws? The answer is that doing so would have been against Allah’s Plan according to which freedom of the will has been given to human beings. Moral responsibility for all actions derives from this freedom, moreover this gives them the greatest incentive to do good deeds, so, O Jama’at-ul-Momineen, be expeditious in doing good deeds, the result of which will come about according to Allah’s Law of Mukaf’at. When the Divine Order is established the differences and variations created by the followers of the earlier Anbia will become manifest. **

27

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

and what does classification of hadeeth as weak mean?
what does considering some hadeeth so weak that they were not included in the compilations mean, I am sure you know the counts of hadeeth simply tossed out by both bokhari and muslim because they were simply too ridiculuous to be included. so they were ‘classified’ as bogus..and rejected. I think that you may be intellgient enough to realize that

Now niether of these two gentlemen were god to the best if my knowledge and thus prone to mistakes even with the best of their intentions, and could have completeky false hadeeth there, or hadeeth that are just stated incorrectly.

Thus someone questioning a hadeeth because it does not seem to make sense is just as much of a 'hadeeth-denier" as these two gentlemen. Hadeeth is not the word of God it was never under the protection of God and stuff did get added, subtratced and twisted.. I assume much of it was caught, but not all.

There are still hadeeth in bokhari and muslim that make you wonder if someone like the propet could have said the things that are attributed to him. Dont take my word for it, pick up the compilation and read for yourself.

There is an element of doubt in there, and if tehre are hadeeth that do not further clarify some clear instruction in the quran, then one is not obligated to take them as divine revelation.

28

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

here's the rub.. i was watching Tahir-ul-Qadri on TV a couple of weeks ago and he was going on about how the 'Sahih' hadiths aren't just the ones found in Bukhari's book.. according to him Bukhari whetted many many more than just the ones that he had time and space to compile in book form.. so we may be looking at hundreds if not thousands more of those ridiculous stories classified as Sahih by Bukhari sahib..

God knows what absurdities reside in those!!

If even a single 'Sahih' turns out to be just a pack of lies, his whole work should be discarded.. but the intellectual dishonesty of today's muslim 'scholars' is that they continue upholding his other work! and they have the gall to call it a science?

29

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

Those people went OUT in search for TRUTH unlike some anti-sunnah folks who encourage people to follow your heart.

Of course, they were human as well which leaves room for mistakes and error. Anti-Sunnah folks should pay some respect to efforts of these individuals instead of preaching 19th century anti-islamic imperial heresy.

30

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

The fitnah of hadiths rose much later in Islam.. due to increasing Persian influence and intrigues.. it's silly to assume today that challenging them is some fad from the 19th century, when in fact hadiths were the 'bidah' not the questioning of it's necessity.

I recall the example given in a book of Shafi's writings. He clearly appears to be addressing the audience with a 'new' idea of taking the Prophetic Sunnah as a source of law.. now Shafi came after 193 years of Prophet's death.. and he did have staunch opponents to his 'radical' idea..

how times change.. the divergent hadith believers won and the staunch supporters of Qur'an-only as guidance shrank in number and influence.

31

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

sorry it is not a qurstion of follow your heart but to assess the hadeeth. Its sad that scholars seem to be unable or unwilling to do it and thus have left ppl hanging.

But please go and read saheeh muslim and saheh bokhari, and tell me you find all of the hadeeth logical. Some seem way outlandish and can in no way be coming from someone like the prophet.

I am not anti-sunnah, and I pay respect to these gentlemen except I note that they were human and had limitations on what they could do and it is evident even in their work where they were unable to ascertain that a hadeeth was infact valid yet they felt wriong tossing it so they included it in as a weak hadeeth.

surely not all hadeeth that are weak, are infact weak, some are pure made ups tuff and some may be 100% real, same goes for hadeeth that are considered good..many could be bogus, and of the hadeeth that were tossed out by the thousands, there is a possibility that there are some authentic ones that were tossed out.

The idea is to investigate, and if you cant find anything on it then do what you think is best in light of what quran says, and not automatically consider it a law and claim it is part and parcel of religion

32

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

well said Fraudz. I don't understand why would anyone label you as munkir-e-hadees but these guys do consider people who think like you do as such. These people do not realize that by following all the conjecture without measuring it up agianst the perfect pedestal - the Quran, they are indeed the ones who are becoming munkir-e-Qur'aan - a much bigger sin.

33

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

Actually, the fitnas of 19th century that REQUIRED disowning of Hadith *and **Sunnah **(especially Sunni books) *in order to further their anti-islamic imperial motives.

Take for example, who are the people today encouraging and supporting Anti-Sunnah/hadith movements?

  • Qadiyaani: For apparent reason, its easy for them to twist and turn the meaning of verses of Quran and not direct wordings of the prophet through various nattrations that clarify the fact that prophet Mohammad is the last prophet and anybody after him who claims to be a prophet is nothing but a liar and fabricator. Also, it is easy to deny hadiths by saying, "oh they were written 200 years after the death of the prophet, thus they hold no meaning to us." Qadiyaniyaat is a 19th century ideology, supported and encouraged by the imperial British Government, support that continues to this day.

  • Pervaiziat: The father of hadith/sunnah rejectors... a 19th heretic.

  • Shia: Shia fallacies pretty much crumble in light of sahi hadith books. If it weren't for them, the villains of Karbala and other lies that shia books tell us would never be exposed including some other facts about family of the prophet.

When you deny Sunnah or even hadiths, you are pretty much denying the very details that we know about Prophet's life. What other source do we have that we can use to know about the daily life of the prophet Mohammad? Quran?

If God wanted us to follow just the Quran, why make a human go through suffering all his life and set example after example so people who see him and those after them can follow him? Had God sent down an angel *with Quran and asked us follow "*QURAN" then people who deny sunnah today would be denying Quran because it was an *angel *that brought it down.

If Quran is a dish then Sunnah/hadith is the recipe/the way to cook it.

Knowing that they hadith books were compiled by Human beings who went far and beyond in search for truth. Of course, they were not safe from making mistakes and they may have made some in their collection and compilation.

I assume the crux of "way of the prophet" rejector's argument would be that there are some hadiths that contradict the quran, I would like to see them? Anything that contradicts Quran, is of course, rejected.

Also, do tell me how did prophet lived his daily life (reactions, dislikes, etc.)? Matters such as: Political affairs, warfare, friends, family, personal issues, dealings with his wives, preaching, etc.

[quote]
I recall the example given in a book of Shafi's writings.
[/quote]

Really? Which book? Volume #? Page #?

34

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

I am niether qadyani or perwezi or whatever, just an avg muslim, who as seen enough meaningless rhetoric on hadeeth, and seeing entire groups of people placing more focus and attention on some minor details of hadeeth and sunnah than the faraiz.

we fight about naats and celebrating prophets bday, or stuff like waseela and god knows what. ooncha pajama, length of darrhi, is a big item of focus.

Now one would think that in nations and areas where ppl are debating about this stuff they are probably following the basics laid out in quran.. but look around and you will see that masajid are empty, laws are not being obeyed, haqooq al ibaad ransacked in all possible ways, rishwat a common place, cheating a standard.

yet...sunnat and hadeeth is critical...thats what occupies our energies. what ws meant for guidance, reference and historical account is where the spin doctors spin to get their power and masses follow.

hadeeth and sunnah needs to serve as a guide, but needs interpretation for today's circumstances. that is for the ones that are correct, those that are doubtful are still a whole diff topic.

hadeeth is not word of god, bokhari/muslim compilations are nto quran, and one has to be careful and vigilant in making sure they are not taking some misinterpreted sentences, some malicisouly fanricated statements, some added-to or deleted-from statements, as equivalent to the word of god and the basis of a religion.

35

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

Frauds, I agree. The anti-sunnah/hadith movement is spearheaded by those groups and some of us are forced to follow their agendas.

They say "follow quran."

One is forced to ask, HOW?

Two possible answers:

  1. Like the Prophet did...
  2. According to your own personal understanding of it...

Majority of the *Sunnah *rejectors seem to cling on to the 2nd answer...

As I said, anything in hadith books that contradicts Quran is rejected, no questions asked.

36

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

its not just option 1 and 2, option 1 is not always clear. within option 1 you say well how much of what is there is right or makes sense and you evaluate it.

This being a taboo subject and scholars not willing to address it in many cases, what else is one left with but one's own best understanding and effort.

so anything in hadeeth books that contradicts quran is rejected, great
but stuff in hadeeth that adds to what quran is saying is not automatically correct.

37

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

Hadees dont contradict the Quran but its just the anti-Hahees people excuse to not follow hadees. Any hadees they dont want to follow they say its against the Quran. Sometime it might look that a certain hadees contradcits the Quran but actually it doesnt. Its the work of mujtahids to reconsile the both.

Perfect Date
38

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

shows your ignorance... Qadiyaani's uphold hadith.. without it, they can't prove their 'maslak'.. so they are just as misguided as the sunnis..

[quote]
- Pervaiziat: The father of hadith/sunnah rejectors... a 19th heretic.
[/quote]

he came too late in the game.. the inventions of hadiths were challenged much earlier.. and he's a 'heretic' as judged by whom? the same mullahcracy he fought against? He didn't get the whole picture but at least he had a clue.. pretty advanced for his time I must admit..

[quote]
- Shia: Shia fallacies pretty much crumble in light of sahi hadith books. If it weren't for them, the villains of Karbala and other lies that shia books tell us would never be exposed including some other facts about family of the prophet.
[/quote]

again.. Shia's are just as misguided as the Sunnis.. no difference.. they too pick and choose from the Sahihs what pleases them and reject the rest..

[quote]
When you deny Sunnah or even hadiths, you are pretty much denying the very details that we know about Prophet's life. What other source do we have that we can use to know about the daily life of the prophet Mohammad? Quran?
[/quote]

we don't need to know the Prophet's life more than what we have in the Qur'an..

[quote]
If God wanted us to follow just the Quran, why make a human go through suffering all his life and set example after example so people who see him and those after them can follow him?
[/quote]

if God wanted people to 'follow' (as in blindly copy the acts of his prophets) why bother sending down huge books and attempting to preserve them?

[quote]
Also, do tell me how did prophet lived his daily life (reactions, dislikes, etc.)? Matters such as: Political affairs, warfare, friends, family, personal issues, dealings with his wives, preaching, etc.
[/quote]

doesn't matter.. he was bound by his environment, circumstances and time.. we live in ours.. it's not 7th century Arabia anymore.. Islam is a universal religion.. the code is right there in the Qur'an.. the Prophet followed it in his own time according to his own circumstances.. we are supposed to live in our own time.. the PRIMARY reason for the decline of Muslims civilization is this blind reliance on hadith for jurisprudence and elevating it above the Qur'an trying to impose it as a solution to modern issues.

[quote]
Really? Which book? Volume #? Page #?
[/quote]

don't remember.. I think it was form an English translation of Ar-Risalah Al-Jami'a

39

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

Well Khanbabax and Salve of Allah all The Time Do busy to Save Their Prophets(i m talking About Imams)bhai wht Authentication will u provide us tht All the Imam books is Save And there is nothing changed in Last 1000 years.U know Ur authenticated Imam book (Bokhari Kutub) had been completed after his death.how could u compare all this collection with Quran.Quran is The word of God And Allah is protecting the quran.Because we will not hve further Anbiya.u r the most unbeliver of Quran.Guys do research on history then compare Alla saha sita Books with quran.

40

Re: why people have started rejecting ahadees these days

No need to debate with Pervezi kafirs.

East & West ka Milap in Twilight;-)