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Originally posted by Chaltahai:
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Allah has created everyone beautiful :~) He didnt give any right to any of his Clay men/women to judge who is better among them :~). His creation is stunning looking :~). What may not please one doesnt mean he/she has the right to pass judgements on others.
We are His creations there has to be a reason HE made few WOmen and few MEN like that.
yaha sab kuch nahee chalta hai :~)
well i would like to say dat these are biggest stupid and they are representing pakistani galz and pakistani galz are not after indian culture they have their own identity mashAllah
Coconut, sorry for not replying earlier, i just came across the post today. And sorry for my really long reply!
How did you come to this point that girls retain more of it than boys?
I'm talking on the average. I came to this conclusion because this is what I see and this is what others see as well. Also, its a cultural norm - its expected of girls to retain traditional values (some good, some silly), and boys are the ones left off the hook for everything. I realize I'm generalizing, but hey - some stereotypes have some ounce of truth in them. I DO HOPE that I'm wrong.
Does that relate here? I fail to see the connection.
In terms of male awara gardi - the point is - why aren't women allowed to do it, if men are? Is this Islamic and according to ATA's statements? I said this because ATA is highly concerned with the deteriorated morality of women. My point is that BOTH men and women are doing immoral things in society today, so the brunt shouldn't be born by women alone for deviating from Islamic or good values. ATA finds it convenient to criticize women, but what hushing up and criticizing his own sex?
Hmm...this is how I look at it, if my sister, mother or wife go out its better to accompany them sometimes. A few reasons apply here, I don't trust the men out there as much as I trust the ladies of the house. Because men are physically overpowering and even if you alone were to go out, lets suppose a guy made a pass on you. What would you do? talk back at most or just ignore and move on, remembe that he can attack. Now most desi women aren't equipped to fight except a few. And I think its safe to say that you wouldn't be able to handle yourself if some guy got frisky. While on the other hand a male with you at the time, you would most likely not be susceptable to a verbal/phsyical attack by these flesh hungry prowlers.
You're correct, I believe. But why not try to change this? I mean, is wearing a burqa going to solve these kind of problems like magic? No. But certain men who complain and whine about women not wearing burqas and staying at home anymore seem to think so. You asked me to put forth solutions. Why not teach men how to respect women? A lot of this disrespect towards women stems from home and the way we're brought up. You see it yourself here - if a Pakistani woman wears a bindhi (even if its for the fun of fashion and nothing more) then its looked down upon! She's not worshipping hindu gods is she, by wearing a bindi or a sari? Why not educate the muslim population about art? I think that would eradicate a lot of complaints about women and fashion right there.
I don't have a problem with the western clothing but I certainly wouldn't like it if someone were looking at me up and down in tight clothes. We can both agree that it makes you feel violated when someone looks at you up and down. Is it better to wear something modest rather than jeans that are so tight you have to lie down to wear them? You could aruge that its not your fault men can't control their gaze, but neither is it men's fault that women expose themselves voluntarily.
I never said that women should wear immodest clothes and be respected at the same time. ATA's statements show that he thinks western clothing is wrong. If he meant something else, then he can clarify himself. But I took it to mean all types of western clothing - modest and vulgar. But in my statements, I was talking about modest western clothes - so here, I agree with you.
Yeah, no one has to wear burqa's or hijab or anything for that matter. Its a choice, a way of life women take on themselves. Those who do I respect them, but in my perspective I'd say atleast be decent enough to cover the curves. Don't get me wrong here I don't like it when guys wear skin tight shirts buffing their chests out with pants stuck up their crack like a stick on speedo. After all covering oneself is a sign of modesty and shame and surely deserves respect. Is it not?
My statements were not contradictory to this at all. I never said one shouldn't dress modestly. I just said that the disappearance of burqa and hijaabs aren't that big of a deal in Pakistan, and aren't due to the influence of India, since they were being given up before the advent of Indian cable.
neither do i, but would u consider wearing a loose jean and shirt? ofcourse its ur preference if u want to wear something to turn heads or something to keep only for your hubby's eyes
I said jeans and shirt - I didn't specify what type of jeans and shirt. I agree with you - its better to wear loose clothing that hide the curves, etc.
So shouldn't your inner beauty reflect your outer appearance? I don't want to attack you personally and ask you if you do it or not. So keep in mind all the questions i'm askin' are in general and in no way are directed solely towards you rather its for those who act in your voice and favor.
dont worry - i dont take these things personally. My view is that fashion is all about taking your inner beauty and putting it out on the open in terms of clothes and make-up. However, sometimes this inner beauty isn't shown as the sharmeeli type of dulhan donning a duppatta. Sometimes this beauty is a strong and intelligent woman dressed in a business suit. Sometimes this beauty is that of a creative individual wearing a loud and bright pink shirt and white bandana. And in this case of Resham, sometimes this beauty is of the ruggerd hindu village woman. Of course, some may say, why is a muslim country concentrating on the beauty of a hindu and not a pious muslim? Because Fashion is an art, and art transgresses all types of religions and cultures and ethnicities to unite everyone by showing "hey that person is different indeed, and lets celebrate the difference instead of hating each other because of this difference". This is what the posted picture is about in my interpretation. And it upsets me that people here are criticizing the pak fashion industry of adopting hindu culture, becuz they've missed the point entirely!
muslim men in your eyes are overprotective,overbearing, insecure, egotistical, maniacal, manipulative, morons all who are built whether who it is, its the same package from what i gather when talk down men.
Not at all, but I do see this as the promoted image of the proper Muslim Man. Hey, ATA gave me this image, not you.
Seems like you've given up on men.
Not at all. My father is an ideal man to me - I'm sure that others like him exist. Besides, we have many dashing and wonderfuls on this forum too.
You fight for women rights, I don't see you as being wrong there but what I do see wrong is you badgering men instead of preaching equality. Preaching hatred, igniting fire? Is that really a way to bring down the wall of chauvinism? Put it this way, no one wants to listen to someone about their own mistakes. What is needed are solutions, I haven't heard one from your standpoint of feminism. I hear you, believe me I do but your just fighting fire with fire. Not necessarily a good way to resolve volatile situations such as this. Questoin is how can you improve it?
I put forward the suggestion that we should learn what art is and learn to respect it if not appreciate it. If you look at the picture posted from an artistic point of view, you'll see an entirely different message there. A peaceful one too.
And I have suggested that men ought to learn to stop thinking that a woman who doesnt wear a hijaab or burqa is not necessarily a bad woman. I'm in no position to judge Resham as a person, since I dont know her. But I certainly dont find it Islamic to say that if she posed for a picture in which she wears a bindhi and sari, that she is necessarily evil and unIslamic. She may have qualities in her persona that make her Islamic or not Islamic, and that I can't judge her for thru this picture alone.
As for fighting fire with fire, in real life (not in art), women should learn to dress modestly, but more importantly learn self-control to prevent themselves from falling prey to their base desires, and also should learn to be strong and KNOW that they are no less than men. This, I SEE women doing. I also see some men contributing by learning self-control and learning to respect women as humans equal in intellect and emotions. But I also see a lot of men treating women as a group of people that must wear burqas all the time. And this is plain wrong. They've misunderstood the gender issue in Islam completely by making claims, such as that which I attacked in my original post.