tit for tat
its about time george bush issue a similar fatwa against allowing any arabs, muslims and pakistanis from living in the USA. Let these muslims taste their own medicine for a change.
Re: tit for tat
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by daas: *
its about time george bush issue a similar fatwa against allowing any arabs, muslims and pakistanis from living in the USA. Let these muslims taste their own medicine for a change.
[/QUOTE]
For a change lets get the "idol worshippers" out of UAE and other such countries.
Re: Re: tit for tat
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by laeeqkhan: *
For a change lets get the "idol worshippers" out of UAE and other such countries.
[/QUOTE]
is there a hadith about this too or is the reason for this change that the idol-worshippers are beating the crap out of you hadith-worshippers in every job market ?
u guys dont want to live in your own motherland (Pakistan?) and the only place left on earth where you are still somewhat welcome are smelly armpits of arbia. And even there u are no match for the hordes of talented young men and women coming from idol-worshipping-land....so if u cannt compete with them on merits then why not get them out of the picture using religion....very smart
laeeqkhan, could you answer one question for me directly, with a yes or no answer?
Were the Jews of Khaibar still resident in Khaibar at the time of the death of Rasoolullah (saws) or not?
Re: Re: Re: tit for tat
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by daas: *
is there a hadith about this too or is the reason for this change that the idol-worshippers are beating the crap out of you hadith-worshippers in every job market ?
u guys dont want to live in your own motherland (Pakistan?) and the only place left on earth where you are still somewhat welcome are smelly armpits of arbia. And even there u are no match for the hordes of talented young men and women coming from idol-worshipping-land....so if u cannt compete with them on merits then why not get them out of the picture using religion....very smart
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How dare you? Muslims can discriminate against anyone based on religion, but the minute a "Kafir" discriminiates against Muslims, it's unjust and inhuman!
There are enough ahadith that Prophet’s (saw) very last instructions was to expel the non-Muslims from Arabian Peninsula.
The Prophet on his death-bed, gave three orders saying, "Expel the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, respect and give gifts to the foreign delegates as you have seen me dealing with them." I forgot the third (order)" (Ya'qub bin Muhammad said, "I asked Al-Mughira bin 'Abdur-Rahman about the Arabian Peninsula and he said, ** 'It comprises Mecca, Medina, Al-Yama-ma and Yemen"** Ya'qub added, *"And Al-Arj, the beginning of Tihama.") * - Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 288
And Hazrat Umar Al Khatab (ra) fulfilled the Prophet's last wish.
Narrated Ibn Umar:
Umar expelled the Jews and the Christians from Hijaz. When Allah's Apostle had conquered Khaibar, he wanted to expel the Jews from it as its land became the property of Allah, His Apostle, and the Muslims. Allah's Apostle intended to expel the Jews but they requested him to let them stay there on the condition that they would do the labour and get half of the fruits.
Allah's Apostle ** told them, *"We will let you stay on thus condition, as long as we wish." * So, they (i.e. Jews) kept on living there until Umar forced them to go towards Taima' and Ariha'. - **Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 39, Number 531
^^
The above is very useful. We've now got a defination of the Arabian Peninsula that states it as being Makkah, Medina (these two are kept as Muslim-only zones), Al-Yamamah (the region now known as Riyadh), Al-Arj (an area between Mecca and Medina) and Yemen.
In fact, Khaibar, where the Prophet (saws) permitted the Jews to remain even having crushed them, is north of the area defined in that hadith as being the Arabian Peninsula, being located about 100 miles north of Medina.
Whilst the regions mentioned in the hadith as comprising the Arabian Peninsula covers most of Saudi Arabia (assuming that the specific areas name mark points on the edge of the peninsula and the Rasoolullah (saws) referred to the area contained inside this area, it would still suggest that it's permissible for non-muslim to live in the areas now part of Qatar, the UAE, and Oman.
I've tried to demarcate the region contained within the points in the hadith on a map of Arabia, below.
I've added on Al-Arj myself, and bear in mind that Al-yamamah is the Riyadh area.
[thumb=H]saudi_arabia6298_5505033.JPG[/thumb]
On second thoughts, this just raises more and more questions.
Jews have been resident in Yemen since pre-Islamic times, in a region north of Sanaa, and are still living there now, though only in small numbers, most having moved to Israel.
If Jews are considered grouped in with the Pagans in the first hadith Ibn Sadique posted, why did the Prophet, or the 4 Righteous Khalifs who followed, or the Ummayid Khalifs, or the Abbasid Khalifs, or the Uthmani Khalifs, all of whom had sovereignty over Yemen, never expel the Jews from there? Yemen is defined in that hadith as being part of the Arabian peninsula…
Edit: I’ve also found other opinions who state that merely the Hijaz and Nejd regions are forbidden for non-Muslims, others who say only the Hijaz is forbidden… wow this is confusing.
So what I’ve found out this morning is:
- Some scholars say that non-Muslims are only forbidden from entering Mecca and Medina
- Some scholars say non-Muslims are forbidden from the Hijaz
- Some scholars say non-Muslims are forbidden from the Hijaz and Nejd
- One hadith suggests that the Hijaz, Nejd and Yemen are forbidden zones.
Nice to have clarity sometimes, isn’t it 
Oh well, I don’t rule Saudi Arabia, this isn’t my problem.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
Oh well, I don't rule Saudi Arabia, this isn't my problem.
[/QUOTE]
hahaha
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
^^
The above is very useful. We've now got a defination of the Arabian Peninsula that states it as being Makkah, Medina (these two are kept as Muslim-only zones), Al-Yamamah (the region now known as Riyadh), Al-Arj (an area between Mecca and Medina) and Yemen.
In fact, Khaibar, where the Prophet (saws) permitted the Jews to remain even having crushed them, is north of the area defined in that hadith as being the Arabian Peninsula, being located about 100 miles north of Medina.
Whilst the regions mentioned in the hadith as comprising the Arabian Peninsula covers most of Saudi Arabia (assuming that the specific areas name mark points on the edge of the peninsula and the Rasoolullah (saws) referred to the area contained inside this area, it would still suggest that it's permissible for non-muslim to live in the areas now part of Qatar, the UAE, and Oman.
I've tried to demarcate the region contained within the points in the hadith on a map of Arabia, below.
I've added on Al-Arj myself, and bear in mind that Al-yamamah is the Riyadh area.
[thumb=H]saudi_arabia6298_5505033.JPG[/thumb]
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There is something blatantly wrong with the map, there is no Israel. what happened?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
(Ya'qub bin Muhammad said, "I asked Al-Mughira bin 'Abdur-Rahman about the Arabian Peninsula and he said, ** 'It comprises Mecca, Medina, Al-Yama-ma and Yemen"** Ya'qub added, *"And Al-Arj, the beginning of Tihama.") * - Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 288
[/QUOTE]
Of course, this is one of many definitions... particularly given that Bukhari's isnad for this statement of Ya'qub bin Muhammad (namely, "I asked Al-Mughira bin 'Abdur-Rahman...") is incomplete and although the complete isnad is found elsewhere one would need a hadith scholar's grading on it. Ibn Hajr concludes his commentary on this hadith, "Expel the pagans...", by saying...
"The Hanafis permit (mushriks in the area) without exception except for Masjid (al Haram), and from (Imam) Malik we have the permissibility of them entering (even the) Haram for trading and al Shafi'i said the rule is that they are not allowed to enter the Haram except by permission of the Imam if there is a specific benefit to the Muslims."
It appears that all of the right wing neo-Nazis and nationalist parties across Europe who want all immigrants (mostly Muslim immigrants) to be sent back to their countries must have gotten their inspiration from the above Hadiths.
ISLAM is not open for discussions or revision - Period
Another USELESS topic which obviously designed to open up controversial discussions contradictions and open loose ends to a point
not even relevant to a Muslim's life here after and the faith it self.
The power of a keyboard and hyper band Internet does not mean that
One should touch upon things which are irrelevant and may cause a severe backlash or enmity from other quarters.
I have no doubt in my mind that even 'Non Muslims possess some modest knowledge of Hadiths and other sacred events and places' that are being used to 'Enter a discussion forum and thus stir emotions through various means.
The best way to tackle this is to avoid these subjects all together by bearing one fact in mind. YOU ARE NOT CHANGING SOME ONE"S MIND into your beliefs, but on the contrary its becomes a laughing matter.
Such discussions are only suitable when you can see the opponent FACE to FACE, and responce to the criticism more accuratley.
I don't think Allah swt will held us accountable if we don't discuss these kind of topics that causes 'Unrest - Disrespect - Hatred - Further Division of Faith and sacts'
Re: ISLAM is not open for discussions or revision - Period
Mr.! If the Prophet :saw: has said something , it is our duty to understand it and spread its knowledge. If others don’ like it they can leave. The issue is important and needs attention. Its ignoring may one of the cause of us (Muslims) be in trouble these days.
If Muslims cannot enter these areas than it is our Law. They (non-Muslims) also have their laws of allowing entry into their countries, and that too very discriminatory and humiliatory these days. So get a life!
Sir ! Look closely and in the light of thousends of 'weak and un-authentic hadiths in circulations since earlier than our own times, some have been floated by the un-faithfuls and some by the enemies of islam
including 'Ahmedians' to put a stranglehold on this religion and portrait it as a religion of "Narrow minded and Extremist people"
Do you think Allah swt or the Prophets peace be up them. showed some kind of weaknesses in not elaborating onto the message of Allah swt? and left it in vague and doubtfullness ?
Yet Islam is a very clear cut and well define religion that was completed via the last sermon of Prophet Mohammad pbuh.
If I can eat, drink.live along side an Ajmi or of another faith then where does it say that there are pockets of places on this mother earth where a certain sect of people are not allowed in...
This whole issue is confused with the restriction on 2 hermains where non-muslims are not allowed and only because they can not fulfil the requirement of being the "Believers" and to maintain the divine respect that only a believer can bestowe.
Any thing else,,,Wa'Alam
Seems the Arab brothers do it right by chucking all non-Muslims out of the Hijaz and making sure it stays clean…With your mentality rampant upon the streets of Medina and Makkah and your apparent disdain for everything Islamic, it would become another Noo Yark, a beautifully decorated by concrete and steel human garbage pile…
Makkah and Medina are places of peace, sanctuary and spirituality…The farther filth stays away from it the better…
Dear brother, did you check and research whether the ahadith quoted are weak or daeef? What if they are not. As far as i can understand, and i may be wrong, the words are quite clear…Al-Jazeera = the arabian peninsula. If it were only haramain than it would have been haramain or hijaz. And as proven, Umar 
did not allow any non-Muslim in the Al-Jazeera. So the sunnah of Prophet :saw: and the Khulafa rashideen is binding on us.
So what do you make of the description of “the Arabian Peninsula” given in the hadith that Ibn Sadique posted? A specific region is described their as being the Arabian Peninsula…
As brother Ibn Sadique quoted:
"
The Prophet on his death-bed, gave three orders saying, “Expel the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula, respect and give gifts to the foreign delegates as you have seen me dealing with them.” I forgot the third (order)" (Ya’qub bin Muhammad said, “I asked Al-Mughira bin 'Abdur-Rahman about the Arabian Peninsula and he said,** 'It comprises Mecca, Medina, Al-Yama-ma and Yemen” Ya’qub added, “And Al-Arj, the beginning of Tihama.”)** - Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 288"
Ok…but Umar excluded non-Muslims from the whole of Arabia. So that is a law set by the rightly guided caliph. As the Prophet :saw: said, Upon you is my Sunnah and the sunnah of Khulafa ar Rashudeen. So it is clear they are not allowed in the whole of the peninsula.
please choose your words carefully when you are talkign about hadith , i dont know if you are muslim or not but even if you’re not these are exactly the kind of perceptions that you should phrase carfeully. because when you throw statements like these you are taking a shot at hadith not a person you disagree with on forum.