why my hindu and sikh brothers/sisters come to islam

[Banta_Singh]

sufimaster ji

sat sri akal

i know it hurts when somebody else points out towards one's religion's week points. right from start the foundation of this thread has been wrong,'why my hindu and sikh brothers/sisters come to islam'.

all the religions in this world have points which can be magnified by the followers as good points, and totally the opposite by the non followers.

but it is in a very bad taste to try to prove that the things that exist in islam do not exist in other religions and therefore the followers of other religions have to join islam.

you talk about science in the quran. i'm not a hindu but i'm sure that if you were to talk to a hindu person, he will tell you that during lord rama's times they had the technology of building aeroplanes and during lord krishna's times they had the television technology.

harrappa and mohinjodaro discovries in now pakistan,which repersent a civilisation of about 5000 years ago, had proper underground sanitation systems. those people were aryans from whom hindu religion sprouted.

my sikh religion being only 500 years old is only a baby compared to many other religions of the world. but i can assure you that there is plenty of scientific material in the gurbani.

sufimasterji, the simplest way i can tell you about your arrogance is that if you live in a house which has a lot more luxries than the house next door, you don't go round saying to everybody that my house is better because i have this better than my next door and that much bigger than my next door. it does'nt look right, does it?

if in your opinion islam has everything which you like to see in a religion then good luck to you, carry on with islam and be a good muslim, but please for god sake don't go round boasting that quran has more science than the hindu religion's vedas and upnishdas or sikh religions guru garanth sahib. you will need to have mastery of sanskrit and gurmukhi to be able to read these great books.

waheguru tuhade te mehar kaare.

[astrosfan]

[quote]
Originally posted by Banta Singh:
**
you talk about science in the quran. i'm not a hindu but i'm sure that if you were to talk to a hindu person, he will tell you that during lord rama's times they had the technology of building aeroplanes and during lord krishna's times they had the television technology. **
[/quote]

You know, I've heard this sort of thing before from fellow Hindus to help justify some stories - we had helicopters, nuclear weapons, etc. All's I want to know - where the heck did this technology go for 2.5 millenia?

[quote]
Originally posted by Banta Singh:
**
harrappa and mohinjodaro discovries in now pakistan,which repersent a civilisation of about 5000 years ago, had proper underground sanitation systems. those people were aryans from whom hindu religion sprouted.
**
[/quote]

And the archeology continues - good stuff coming out of the Harrappan/Saraswati digs.

[quote]
Originally posted by Banta Singh:
**
if in your opinion islam has everything which you like to see in a religion then good luck to you, carry on with islam and be a good muslim, but please for god sake don't go round boasting that quran has more science than the hindu religion's vedas and upnishdas or sikh religions guru garanth sahib. you will need to have mastery of sanskrit and gurmukhi to be able to read these great books.

waheguru tuhade te mehar kaare.
**
[/quote]

Trust me, I'll get back to you Sufimaster - All I needs is more time.

[sufimaster]

dear banta singh,

i havent said that hinduism or any other religion doesnt offer science and guidance. This is why i have asked brother astrofan for stuff thats in the scripts.

IM just saying that one of the reasons islam is growing so fast among intllectuals is because of science in the quran. Although i do concede that the thread heading was inaappropriate because jews and christians come to islam also by this means. The headin should have been science in religion!

if you are not a master of science in sikhism then i dont mind if you refer me to a guru who does know sanskrit.

also i think you hve to draw the line between stuff like archeology and buildings from pure science like embryology, geology etc. Egyptians could build pyramids.

btw banta got any websites on sikhism. is wahe guru the one god in sikhism?

dear astrofan, you can take how much time you like to find out abt science in hinduism. Alll religions are good i just like to study which one is best to follow.

[Hizbul]

Oye SufiMaster..chup kar oye...........

[Banta_Singh]

astrosfan ji

sat sri akal

there's something else you might be interested to know. before the british got established in india there were germans there before the british. many of the ancient hindu books which were full of scientific material were taken to germany and are still in their safekeeping. the study and decoding of these books was probably the main cause of germany being no. one in the scientific research before the world wars and making germany a super power.

hitler had so much faith in these ancient books that he even adopted the swastika as his country's emblem. swastika, as you must know, is a sanskrit word, meaning success, progress, and victory. that is why whenever the hindus start to do anything they draw the swastika (sri Ganesh) and do it's puja.

now you may want to ask me that how come hitler got defeated? well look at the hindu swastika and look at hitler's swastika, they go in the opposite directions. obviously, hitler without realising made a mistake of having it drawn the wrong way round. so where as it actually means success and victory, but having the swastika drawn in the opposite direction must mean failure and defeat.

so i hope that sufimaster ji can now stop insisting that in the quran there was scientific material revealed 1400 years ago, which the scientists have only just discovered now. the vedas and upnishads were there thousands of years before the holy quran.

i don't have to be a hindu to accept this fact or by accepting this fact it does not make me a hindu either. a fact is a fact.

waheguru sabh pe mehar kare.

[mundyaa]

there's something else you might be interested to know. before the british got established in india there were germans there before the british. many of the ancient hindu books which were full of scientific material were taken to germany and are still in their safekeeping. the study and decoding of these books was probably the main cause of germany being no. one in the scientific research before the world wars and making germany a super power.

hitler had so much faith in these ancient books that he even adopted the swastika as his country's emblem. swastika, as you must know, is a sanskrit word, meaning success, progress, and victory. that is why whenever the hindus start to do anything they draw the swastika (sri Ganesh) and do it's puja. <<<<<<<

hahahahhahhahahahhahahhahahahha hitler read hindu scientific books. if u know anything about germany..... the only thng they might have been interested in would be kama sutra.

a nazi supremist who killed jews for no reason other than them being smart and controlling the economy would read other foreign books. there is something funny here everyday. i love this forum.

banta even though u are allowed to post whatever you think of....i wanna see the proof of this hindu science first of all and then the proof of how hitler used to enhance his thinking. of all the people the nazi supremist could use this science.... it wasnt the science of producing shoodars and lowlifes and how to keep shoodars down and de-moralizing other fellow humans was it? cos thats not exactly science that sufimaster wants to discuss.

[Rani]

Mundayaa,

Your close mindedness makes me laugh....India had complete system of medicine which Greek copied from India and called it Yunani system.

The city planning and way of life Aryans 5000 years ago is for the whole world to see. Go and visit it and see for yourself how Indian and rest of the world lived before Islam came.

All the great civilizations existed way before advent of Islam. Pagans were very capable and smart people, in my opinion organized religion has destroyed initiatives and ability of the citizens (in the countries it was introduced) to reach great heights. Egypt, Iran and Iraq have never been able to reach their past glory of being centre of the world civilization.

In Guru Granth Sahib there is a verse I will quote later on (when I have more time) telling about many galaxies and solar system in the universe and it attributes this knowledge to Vedas.

[mundyaa]

yes rani, now which hindus were civilized? brahmans, shoodars or khashtaries?

All the great civilizations existed way before advent of Islam. Pagans were very capable and smart people, in my opinion organized religion has destroyed initiatives and ability of the citizens (in the countries it was introduced) to reach great heights. Egypt, Iran and Iraq have never been able to reach their past glory of being centre of the world civilization. <<<<<

o well... those great civilizations DIED. if they were really great they would exist today dear. A clear PROOF that they werent great as you want to think.

In Guru Granth Sahib there is a verse I will quote later on (when I have more time) telling about many galaxies and solar system in the universe and it attributes this knowledge to Vedas.<<<<

Another Guru preaching hinduism and hindu scientific revolutions of the past. hahaha i wonder why they felt the need to detest the very same faith which according to you was so scientifically and socially advanced. i wonder why they opted on aloofing themselves from hinduism by preaching to ONE god and not several like hindus do.... and opted for ONE and equal race among all humans. Quite a mystery.

coming back to what banta said about hitler.... are you saying that hitler was interested in hindu ideas of civilization and medicine? u make me laugh.

once again if u get a chance go visit germany.... as i said they might have been interested in kama sutra and devdasies and how to screw lowlifes etc. a specialty of hindus.

[sanjhabanda]

What Mr Banta Singh is saying is absolutely correct.

It is well documented in the Indian history that the Germans did take away a lot of ancient Indian litrature and it is common knowledge that they had these ancient books decoded with the help of Sanskrit scholars and used the knowledge towards scientific research.

As far as the symbol of Swastika is concerned, it's origin is unknown but the evidence of this symbol has been found in Indian, Chinese, Egyptian and Mesopotamian cavilizations.

But one thing which is well known and fully accepted, is that the word Swastika is a Sanskrit word and that Sanskrit was the ancient language of the Indian region.

Only if Hitler had used the symbol in it's original form, rather than altering it he may have turned out to be the greatest ruler of all times and could possibly have accomplished what Islam has not been able to accomplish in 1400 years, ie 'unite the whole mankind'.

The swastika used by Hitler as the Nazi party emblem was actually a negative Swastika, with negative and disastrous results.

[Masooma]

Banta singh:
"as i said in my previous post, when god created a human male, why could he not create him with an circumcised penis in the first place?"

Yea true, please shed some light, if according to hindu belief one who dies comes back to life in form of a different body, if god vishnu died and guru ji was god vishnu, why did god vishnu die in the first place?

Banta singh:
"ik gall hoar, Rab ne bande nu apne varga banaya c (god made man into his own image). is gall ton ih zahar nahin hunda ke rab di sunnat nahin c keeti hoi.

rab tuhada bhaala kare te zara ku mat deve."

akho ji saee kaiya tusi, rab saraiya da bhala karai, saraiya to booti matt tuanu dawai, first you say crap about rab and then ask RAB kai sanu matt dawai?

Rab is one, and only one, when HE made man, the physical apearence of man reflected Him.I agree! but what about WOMEN? women is also considered mankind, what will be your next question?
The "IMAGE" of Rab is not same as "SAME physical appearence" of rab.When you look at your shadow, you see the outline of your body, but you can not see every feature perfectly.

Paili gal, tusi jado Rab walou gal karo, your not just talking about Rab of muslims, that Rab is yours too.Rab sada wi ai, ohi Rab tuada vi ai.

P.S I have asked this before, i wll ask again, first to banta singh ji, as far sa your posts are concerned, i see you arguing over hindus more then you argue over sikhism, i think that is very good, but guru nanak ji believed in both relegions(according to sikh belief), he believed in hindusim and Islam as well, what makes you more closer to hinduism that you will fight, die do anything for them but if you get a chance to kill a muslim, never miss a shot?

As for rani, i have seen throughout, you find nothing wrong with hindu belief but when it comes to Islam, may it be in favour of human or not you will make it seem like the most unhuman thing ever.
Never saw you saying a word on "SATI" practice, but when it comes to Islam telling muslim men and women to gaurd our modesty, you tell us women are treated bad?Come on, give me a break.I remember once you accused me for trying to brainwash you and crap, but i can bet some hindu has already done that to you.You are blindly convinced and this is like your moto to bash Islam in anyway you CAN.I see you are not even giving valid statments, always join in when you see there is a chance for you to accuse Islam, and step out when someone gives you a taste of your own medicine.

Masooma

[Banta_Singh]

Masooma ji

sat sri akal

your first point

Rab is one, and only one, when HE made man, the physical apearence of man reflected Him.I agree! but what about WOMEN? women is also considered mankind, what will be your next question?>>>

I do agree with you that Rab is one and only one but I may not have to agree with the theory of the religions of the kitab of God creating Man in his own image, because according to my faith God has no shape or form.

However according to the religions of the book the first man created by God was Baba Adam, so therfore he must have been the one who was created in God's own image. As far as the creation of first woman is concerned, please correct me if I'm wrong, did'nt God create Bibi Eve, from Baba Adam's rib?

There are a lot of tv programmes on all the religions every day and I try my best to pay as much attention as I can to all of them equally. Whenever I hear the muslim scholars talk, they always say the same thing that God created man in his own image, never a mention of a woman. So I honestly would like to know, in whose image the woman was made.

your 2nd point

P.S I have asked this before, i wll ask again, first to banta singh ji, as far sa your posts are concerned, i see you arguing over hindus more then you argue over sikhism, i think that is very good, but guru nanak ji believed in both relegions(according to sikh belief), he believed in hindusim and Islam as well, what makes you more closer to hinduism that you will fight, die do anything for them but if you get a chance to kill a muslim, never miss a shot?>>

I have no problem with Islam and also have many muslim friends. What I always end up disagreeing with them is when they claim Islam to be the best religion in the world, because in my opinion you can not claim one religion to be better than another.

Then they are always going on about how hindus and sikhs are converting to islam because islam is a better religion than hindu and sikh religions.

There's no doubt that it is much more easier for a hindu or a sikh to convert to islam than the other way round, and yes there are some who have converted, but please do remember that Islam arrived in India more than 1000 years ago and there are still more hindus in the Indian Subcontinent than the muslims. There are more hindus worlwide than the muslims.

I know that the holy prophet made it a mission for every muslim to spread his message and do everything to convert others to the fold of islam but that was 1400 years ago when people were illiterate, no radio, no tv, no newspapers and no internet. The only way you could spread the message was by word of mouth, today everybody can find out all he wants to know about all the religions of the world with a click of a button, so why do the muslims keep on and on about trying to convert everybody else into the fold of Islam?

Now you want to know what makes me closer to hindus than to muslims. I have muslim friends, hindu friends, sikh friends and also christian friends and get on equally well with all of them. But offcourse there is a differance between my muslim friends and all the other friends.

About 2 years ago, one of my muslim friend's Abbaji passed away, whom I always used to call Chachaji. He was originally from Faislabad, was always kind to me and treated me like a son. my wife and I went to their house to pay our respects and we were considering to accompany the janaza. My friend took us to one side and being very apologetic asked us not to come along because their friends and relatives will not like it. My wife and I were very upset but we respected the family's wishes.

Last year, on my son's 21st birthday, my wife and I decieded to do the langar sewa in the gurudwara. Offcourse all my sikh friends came and helped along to prepare the food in the kitchen and so did the all the hindu friends. Even a couple of Gorey friends turned up and thoroughly enjoyed the experience of the langar.

It was on a Sunday evening. Three of my muslim friends had promised to come along with their families. I told my mother and my wife about them coming, but they never turned up.

On Monday one phoned up from 300 miles away, saying that his father in law had become ill all of a sudden and they had to rush there streight away on Sunday evening.

The one whose father's funeral I was not allowed to attend 2 years ago, came round to my house in the evening to tell me that he had tummy upset and loose motions on Sunday evening all of a sudden.

Third one, when I met him on the following weekend told me that he had got stuck in the traffic and when he finally got to the gurudwara, he just could'nt find anybody there. Traffic on a Sunday? Nobody in the Gurudwara on a Sunday evening? As if one can say nobody in the mosque on Friday afternoon.

Afterall, I did'nt force them to come, all they had to do was to tell me up front rather than make excuses later. When they come to my house, we don't offer them the meat we have cooked, because I know that they will only eat halal, we prepare vagitarian food for them, whenever they are invited round for a meal.

I'm very blunt with my friends and if I have any thing to say, I will say it. I told all three that they were making excuses and they said countless times 'Allah kasam yar', 'yaakeen kar yar'.

The one whose father's funeral I was'nt allowed to attend is now sitting to my left, reading what I'm writing and giggeling and still going on 'Allah kasam yar, yaakeen kar yar'.

Now tell me Masooma ji. can you blame me for feeling closer to my hindu friends than to my muslim friends?

Rab tuhanu khush rakhe.

[Banta_Singh]

Just one point I forgot to answer about your acusation that I will never miss a chance to kill a muslim. I think you are being very cruel to me making such an assumption.

True I have a ruck with my friend every now and again, regardless of their religions but I would'nt physically hurt them even with a pin point.

[Rani]

Masooma

As for rani, i have seen throughout, you find nothing wrong with hindu belief but when it comes to Islam, may it be in favour of human or not you will make it seem like the most unhuman thing ever.

Hindus reconganize their wrong doing and are making lot of effort in rectifying the ills of the past. I have never seen any Hindu justify the class system.

Never saw you saying a word on "SATI" practice, but when it comes to Islam telling muslim men and women to gaurd our modesty, you tell us women are treated bad?Come on, give me a break.I remember once you accused me for trying to brainwash you and crap,

Sati has been outlawed in India more than 150 years ago. I have not heard of anybody who was sacrificed or has commited Sati. I think there was one case in Rajasthan and it was treated as a murder case. Actually I know many widows that have remarried ....bad and horrible customs in India are either dead or dying.

*i can bet some hindu has already done that to you.You are blindly convinced and this is like your moto to bash Islam in anyway you CAN *.

I speak agianst any religion or philosphy that in my opinion voilates human rights of individuals.

I see you are not even giving valid statments, always join in when you see there is a chance for you to accuse Islam, and step out when someone gives you a taste of your own medicine.

It is not possible to participate in each and every discussion. Sometimes what I want to say has already been said by others, therefore there is no need for me to join. Also, I find it is futile to discuss anything and waste of my time if participants don't have an open mind and keep repeating same thing again and again.

I think Banta Singh has explained very well why Sikhs feel close to Hindus.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited September 02, 2000).]

[Banta_Singh]

rani ji

sat sri akal

i agree with every single word in your message, yes the differance between the hindus and the muslims is that the hindus are moving along with the times and are trying to live their lives according to the 21st century.

the evil practices, such as the caste system, child marriage, polygamy, sati and human sacrifice etc. are all illegal.

but the hindus don't interfere with one's personal choice such as what one wants to eat and drink or wear or wheather one wants to pray or not or go to the temple or not.

on the other hand the muslims still like to fully justify living their lives according to the way the holy prophet instructed them 1400 years ago. if that is how they want to live their lives, i personally have no problem with that and wish them good luck.

the objection i have is when the muslims feel that they have been given a licence by the allmighty to stop hindus from the way they want to worship. even though they were instructed to do so by baba abraham and then later by hazrat mohammed, it can not be done in the 21st century without causing friction and bad blood.

they should leave the hindus and the sikhs alone to live their lives the way they want to live.

waheguru tuhanu khush rakhe.

[Banta_Singh]

sufimaster ji

sat sri akal

here’s the answer i got from mr xtreme, personally i think it is in the bad taste of mr xtreme to say hypothetical things about anybody, leave alone about the great people.

Xtreme…they will deny the truth, and we cant do nothing about it.
They can believe in fairies and monkeys that write Shakespeare for all I care. This thread is just to set the record straight. It is completely factual.

Banta Singh,

on another thread sufimaster was talking about some nasty play about Guru Nanak by the hindus, when I asked him to shed some light on the topic he simply points his finger towards you. May you can enlighten us all about the play.

That was a hypothetical situation, which I explained clearly in the very successful thread about comparative tolerance of Islam, Sikhism, Christianity etc. Here’s a link: http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/001328.html

It is nothing to do with this topic, but if you want to discuss anything I said in that thread, please feel free to open another thread, as that one was closed by admin.

waheguru mehar kare

[mundyaa]

the evil practices, such as the caste system, child marriage, polygamy, sati and human sacrifice etc. are all illegal.

but the hindus don’t interfere with one’s personal choice such as what one wants to eat and drink or wear or wheather one wants to pray or not or go to the temple or not.
on the other hand the muslims still like to fully justify living their lives according to the way the holy prophet instructed them 1400 years ago. if that is how they want to live their lives, i personally have no problem with that and wish them good luck. <<<<<<<<<<<<

300 million shoodars exist today and increasing number of religious prostitutes serving brahmans. while these practices might not be sanctioned by govt they are religiously practised.

how can u compare a cult like that to Islam is mind boggling. hindus of today still leave hinduism for other religions for obvious reasons under a hindutva govt adamant on keeping them from leaving hinduism. while Islam is on the rise. You only have to look at the increasing number of christians converting to Islam.

banta singh u r right its the “dont care” about coming to temples and mandirs that drives the hindus/sikhs away from their religions and towards other religions. keep it up.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

[sufimaster]

dear banta singh,
some of the points you have given are acceptable but others are pathetic. You gave reasons why you are closer to hindus than to muslims....these are stupid reasons and nothing to do with islam. Nowhere in islam does it say non muslims arent allowed to attend a muslims janaza.
Their also seems to be a difference of opinion amongst sikhs who is closer to them either the hindus or muslims. My freind baljinder singh says that in india in his village the sikhs are more friendly with the muslims than hindus and how much he hates the hindus. I think its just a case of where you live in india.

my friend, you also try to make a mockery of islam and at the same time you preach tolerance to others.

you said regarding circumcision " in the case of our muslim brothers their allah may have realised afterwards that he made a mistake and later he told them to rectify that mistake"

as a doctor i have met some born blind sikh children, my heart goes out to such children. Are you saying that wahe guru made a mistake , is wahe guru blind and imperfect? dont offend your own religion with your own philosophy, please.

if sikhs believe that their is one god and you cant contemplate this gods essence then why are you obssessed with names whther its allah or wahe guru. Wahe guru or allah , its the same so their is no need to offend others religion............okay, brother.

furtthermore you say allsikhs who convert to islam are weak minded. Are the sikh converts the only weak minded people or are the hundreds of thousand of others who convet to islam. To acccuse the thousands of convert muslim doctors, scientists in europe and america to be weak minded isnt fair.

yes its true, one or two jews etc might convert to sikhism but i have never heard of any sikh converts. I only hear of muslim converts and i think common sense should tell you to explore the reasons why. The west is a democracy their is no compulsion to become muslim and no death penalty.

[sanjhabanda]

Sufimaster
How come you still have'nt been able to convert Baljinder Singh into Islam. How much will you get paid if you can convrt him to Islam, I hear the going rate at the moment is $3000. Also, if you can get him converted, will you really go to heaven and be rewarded with a hoor? If you can't persuade him to get converted then I don't think that you are doing your job properly as a good muslim.

[Masooma]

First of All, all my sikh friends, get THIS IS YOUR MIND, we are NOT trying to convert anyone of you! What we are doing here is a discussion to solve some misconceptions about Islam and Muslims.

Banta singh ji, i agree with you, if my Friends did such thing to me,i would have lost respect for them,may it be muslim or sikh or hindu or budhist or christain or jew.
those are your personal experiences,my muslim friends sometimes do such things to me?that doesn't mean i have the right to turn against whole muslim community and declare muslims my enemies,and others my well wishers.
What you wrote about was Human nature,it has nothing to do with What ISLAM teaches us, Islam tells us to give our half property to our neighbors,whether they are muslims or non-muslims, now tell me is there such a rich muslim who did that?I don't think so.

I have no idea why your friends didn't let you guys attend janaaza,no one is restricted for attending janaaza,probably the family was into mulaana teachings.Islam teaches the opposite.

Do you know,your so called dear hindu friends think its unpure if a muslim steps in their temple,or their house.Now don't tell me they don't do that.THAT WOULD BE A LIE! the raciest behaviour still exist in hindus,but the ones who are TOTALY westernized,unki to baat hi alag hai, they don't find anything wrong going out with farangi koom either,so lets not talk about westernised hindus.

AND AS FOR THE QUESTION CONCERNING THE CREATION OF WOMEN, that is true that Allah created women from the rib of Adam (a.s).
First of all, i never read this anywhere in Quran that Adam(a.s) reflects image of God.It is what i have been listening to.We muslims have two sources to get reference from, Hadiths and Quran.Hadiths were written after Muhammad(s.a.w) died, so we can always doubt the hadiths,but Quran is in its Original state. As far as my belief is concerned, i go for Quran more than Hadiths.

Quran states that Allah put His light in Adam, light doesn't mean Soul,light is qualities of God for example, forgiveness,love,kindness etc.

So i can not say anything about the physical appearence of Man/women,whether it reflects the image of God.
Raha sawaal aurat kaisai bani, Well if God can create man, its no hard for Him to create Woman.

Banta singh:
"Just one point I forgot to answer about your acusation that I will never miss a chance to kill a muslim. I think you are being very cruel to me making such an assumption"

Janaab do you have to take everything literary? By killing, i didn't mean physical harm, what i meant was pointing fingures and bashing muslims and Islam.

Rani:
Hindus reconganize their wrong doing and are making lot of effort in rectifying the ills of the past. I have never seen any Hindu justify the class system.

Rani do you realise,when you say Hindus,you are talking about the majority? I hope you have been living in India and been reading the daily news of what is going on in India.
The majority of Hindus still are prejiduce.As mundayaa said, shooders are still treated in the worse manner you can imagine. I am not talking about hindus living in delhi,bombay or such big cities of India.I'm talking about the MAJORITY hindus all over India.
Gosh, you are completely blinded by your dear hindu friends that you can't look outside delhi,bombay and such big cities which are Highly influenced by American culture. I'm not talking about "american wanna bees Hindus", I'M TALKING ABOUT ORIGINAL HINDUS.You never saw a hindu justify class system, well my dear you have to come over NY, i well introduce you to such young hindus(18 year old) who can not drink water if a muslim/christain/jew touched the bottle.

Rani:
Sati has been outlawed in India more than 150 years ago. I have not heard of anybody who was sacrificed or has commited Sati. I think there was one case in Rajasthan and it was treated as a murder case. Actually I know many widows that have remarried ....bad and horrible customs in India are either dead or dying.

Where have you been living dear?ONE CASE?GIVE ME A BREAK!! a sati case may have reduced, but shooder prostitutes, the number is increasing everyday.
You said, bad customs are dead or dying?well you do agree that they DO exist in the HINDU RELEGION itself, now the hindus themselves are making changes to it, but such customs never existed in Islam.
HINU relegion, how much reliable it is when everyday people influenced by americans make changes to their own customs and relegion????this shows how much insecurity exists in hindus about their relegion.

Rani:
I speak agianst any religion or philosphy that in my opinion voilates human rights of individuals.

Yea right, we are not blind here, your long posts reflect your attitude dear,you are not debating for human rights, you are debating for hindu rights ONLY!
And yet, your same Hindu friends can go so far to attack the most respectable place of Sikhs.

Banta ji, one thing i would like to point out, we muslims are against your relegion, and hindus your friends love you, but see your Gurduwara in nankana sahib is secure under muslim govt, never being attacked by muslims, but Golden temple in the presence of sikhs, being attacked by Hindus under hindu Govt?SHOWS HOW MUCH LOVE THEY HAVE FOR YOU GUYS IN THEIR HEARTS.
i say again, punjabies are very innocent people but agressive, Hindus just happen to take advantage of their innocense by pumping them up.

Rani:
I think Banta Singh has explained very well why Sikhs feel close to Hindus.

Yes banta singh has showed how clever hindus are,and how dumb some muslims can be.That doesn't prove anything dear, what he wrote is HUMAN NATURE,not the case of muslim,sikh.
What those muslims did is BAD-IKHLAAQI, bad manners which is considered WRONG in Islam.
Some muslims even broke the promise, and Fulfilling "QOUL","WADA",PROMISE IS ONE OF THE DUTY OF MUSLIMS.

Banta Singh:
i agree with every single word in your message, yes the differance between the hindus and the muslims is that the hindus are moving along with the times and are trying to live their lives according to the 21st century.
the evil practices, such as the caste system, child marriage, polygamy, sati and human sacrifice etc. are all illegal.

Banta ji, thats Illegal according to Indian constitution, but that is NOT illegal according to HINDU constitution and relegion.
Talking about Hindus, you are not only talking about hindus living in Delhi,bombay etc, you are talking about the majority Hindus in India, so keep that in mind.That thing itself proves your statement wrong that Hindus(majority) actually believe all these acts are unhuman.It is their relegion, so they agree that their relegion has no respect for humans?And about the caste ssystem, come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, your not talking to a 6 year old!!!!!!!

"but the hindus don't interfere with one's personal choice such as what one wants to eat and drink or wear or wheather one wants to pray or not or go to the temple or not."

AGAIN WHICH HINDUS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?MAJORITY?OR MINORITY?

Banta Singh:
"on the other hand the muslims still like to fully justify living their lives according to the way the holy prophet instructed them 1400 years ago. if that is how they want to live their lives, i personally have no problem with that and wish them good luck."

Thank you for wishing us good luck, but i would like to correct you on one place,1400 years ago, Islam didn't have any sort of cruality(sati,caste system etc) tought, everything Islam tought increased the respect in the society.1400 years ago, our values were the same, lieing was considered bad than, and still is, disobeying parents was considered bad than, still is,hating eachother was bad than and still is.The VALUES tought by Islam still maintained the demand. One thing which every non-muslim points out is Jihaad, which is considered a terrorist act according to non-muslims.
If fighting for the muslims tortured in Kashmire is terrorism, than we have no problem being called terrorists.
Banta singh ji, if we had such unhumanity (sati,etc)TOUGHT in ISLAM(the relegion itself) than i would be doubting it deserve the title"perfect relegion" .

Don't go for what you see your muslim friends doing, they may be doing something wrong, Doesn't mean Islam teaches them , what they did is HUMAN NATURE.

Banta singh:
the objection i have is when the muslims feel that they have been given a licence by the allmighty to stop hindus from the way they want to worship. even though they were instructed to do so by baba abraham and then later by hazrat mohammed, it can not be done in the 21st century without causing friction and bad blood

AGAINNNNNNNNN YOU ARE SAYING WHAT YOU SAW SOME DUMB MUSLIMS DOING,no one is given the lisence by Almighty for interfering in non-muslims actions. History is the evidence that when Muhammad(s.a.w) conquared Makkah, he allowed every non-muslim to do whatever they want concerning relegious practices. Islam never allowed Muslims to force Islam on anyone.
IF QURAN WAS TO ASK MUSLIMS TO TREAT NON-MUSLIM IN A CRUAL MANNER WHY WOULD IT STATE
"...nor let some of you backbite others. Does one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brothers? But you abhor it..." Holy Quran(49:12)
"...and argue with them in the best of manner..." Holy Quran(16:125) ARGUE IN BEST OF MANNER??WOHOO WHERE DID THIS COME FROM WHEN ACORDING TO YOU ALLAH WANT US TO SLAUGHTER NON-MUSLIMS, KILL THEM IF THEY SAY A WORD AGAINST ISLAM?
"Kind word and pardon are better than charity followed by injury..." Holy Quran(2:263)
"O you who believe render not your charities worthless by reproach and injury..." Holy Quran(2:264)
"Turn to forgiveness and enjoin good and turn aside from the ignorant (7:199)".

This is what Islam tells us to do!NOT WHAT YOUR SO CALLED MUSLIM FRIENDS DID!Dwhat they DID WAS SELF-DECISION!

For sanjhabanda, don't worry, no one trying to convert you guys here, we are just trying to shed some light on misconceptions about Islam.
I have non-muslim friends, never tried to convert them, but when you guys say shit about Islam without knowing anything, that pinches me reall bad.Personally, my sikh friends are really nice, never say anything about Islam or muslim. Maybe because they are more into sikhism than they are into hindusim(unlike participants here).
Banta singh ji, i dont know what kind of friends those Pakistanis were, but if some sikhs come to Lahore to visit nankana sahib, they are given a warm welcome and are treated with respect.You should visit Pak sometimes to see how much respect we have for you guys and gurduwara located in Pak.
Just because some ignorants do bad-ikhlaqi, you shouldn't consider all muslims like that and all hindus dear to you.hmmm just a suggestion,rest is upto you.

Rab rakha, Rab tuadah wi palah karai

Masooma

P.S OH YEA, FOR RANI JI, A LATEST PROOF THAT "RACISM" EXISTS IN INDIA IS SHOWN IN THE MOVIE "HUMARA DIL AAPKAI PAAS HAI", WHEN ASHWARIA'S FRIEND TELLS HER THAT WHEN SHE WAS COMING TO VISIT ASHWARIA, PEOPLE WERE LOOKING AT HER AS IF SHE WAS "ACHOOT"(SHOODER)
such words wouldn't have been used if racism didn't exist in hindu minds.

BEAT THAT!

[sufimaster]

sanjhabanda,
i dont discuss religion with anybody but when people start askin questions then i try my best to answer. If wahe guru/ allah wants to bring people to islam then i cant do anything abt it, i am just a wasila.

baljinder became a muslim last friday.