Why many Pakistani-Americans aren't sending flood donations home

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Why many Pakistani-Americans aren't sending flood donations home

PCG, we can sit here and blame them all day long but it won't solve anything. If you know of any corrupt NGO, please don't support it, they will die due to lack of funds. But those who are sincerely helping, please highlight them and support them. And there are many NGOs that are trustworthy.

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Re: Why many Pakistani-Americans aren't sending flood donations home

If you compare Pakistan's efforts in helping US forces taking down the terrorists then the aid is very little in this regard.

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Re: Why many Pakistani-Americans aren't sending flood donations home

I think people have forgot all those billions of dollars that flew to Pakistan (under army rule) from every corner of the world after 2005 earthquake, all those promises of Musharraf to make new cities ....

We really have very short memory as a nation....

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Re: Why many Pakistani-Americans aren’t sending flood donations home

If you have been keeping in touch, and I assume you do, with the news of late, you will have heard, what with wikileaks and all, about the ambivalence, to put it mildly, about Pakistan’s “efforts in helping US forces taking down the terrorists.” For example, your own Prime Minister, Mr. Cameron, last month had some unflattering and unambiguous words to say in Bangalore about Pakistan’s role in the war on terror.

Also, Pakistan is “taking down the terrorists” not so much to help another country as for its sake, even survival. The country that faces the gravest existential threat from terrorism is none other than Pakistan itself. And Pakistan needs to eradicate terrorism to protect the lives, if not the way of life as we know it, of its own people. Just yesterday a terrorist blew himself in a mosque with a pro-government preacher in wana, killing 26 people and injuring 40. It was Pakistanis who were killed. When militants explode car bombs in a meena bazaar in Peshawar, killing 100, mostly women and children shopping for cheap jewellery and toys, it is also the Pakistanis whose lives are lost. When the state negotiates and bends over backwards to appease these barbaric animals, as it did in Swat, and they thank the state by holding floggings, and banning female education, preventing 40000 girls from attending school,it is the Pakistanis who suffer.

And if those places appear distant and far away, remember what happened in Moon market in Lahore and the Data darbar recently because of Pakistan’s failure to eradicate terrorists from society.

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Re: Why many Pakistani-Americans aren't sending flood donations home

May be someone can ask Cameron what Brits and US achieved in Afghanistan, the real root cause.

Let me ask you this: US has been "removing" terrorists from Afghanistan for past 7 years, what is the result? Considering the technology and manpower US/coalition has employed over there.

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Re: Why many Pakistani-Americans aren’t sending flood donations home

You ask about the result in Afghanistan. Afghans, certainly the women and the girls and the minorities, enjoy much greater freedoms in today’s Afghanistan than they did a decade ago under the brutally oppressive Taliban regime. To me that is a heartening result. To some it might not be. Also I must remind you that while Pakistanis love to berate U.S. especially for its involvement in Afghanistan, and despite U.S. recognition of Pakistan as a “strategic” partner like India, and billions of dollars of U.S. aid, which has helped keep the country’s economy afloat, ironically today they view even India more favorably than the U.S., Afghans have contempt-- and not any reciprocal sympathy-- for Pakistan. Interestingly, their government has become increasingly vocal in its criticism of its eastern neighbor. Surely you are aware about the rhetoric coming from Kabul these days, especially in the wake of wikileaks revelations about the alleged cohabitation of ISI and the Taliban, that the “real root cause of terrorism” is Pakistan and its agencies, that the U.S. severs its ties with Pakistan, and that the NATO forces devote their energy in launching offensives against militants and their sanctuaries in Pakistan proper instead of in Afghanistan. The U.S. has shown commendable restraint despite the increasing chorus from some of Pakistan’s neighbors that the war in Afghanistan be changed into one in Pakistan and that Pakistan be regarded a pariah state, akin to North Korea or Iran.

Here is an illuminating article:

“Is the US cheating on the Afghans?”](http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010\08\23\story_23-8-2010_pg3_4)

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Re: Why many Pakistani-Americans aren't sending flood donations home

*Pakistani-Canadians get hands-on in quest to raise funds for flood victims *

With corruption a concern, direct delivery of aid is often preferred

Jeff Gray
From Tuesday's Globe and Mail Published on Monday, Aug. 23, 2010 11:46PM EDT Last updated on Wednesday, Aug. 25, 2010 1:44PM EDT

It’s a common refrain from grassroots Pakistani-Canadian and Muslim organizations in Canada frantically raising funds to help flood victims halfway around the world: Trust us, we are delivering the aid ourselves.

Distrust of the Pakistani government and its reputation for corruption have donors insisting on giving aid to organizations with an independent presence on the ground, those scrambling to raise funds say.

Some groups raising money to aid flood victims make a point of emphasizing that their own staff and volunteers actually make use of the donations themselves to provide food, medical assistance or other help on the ground in Pakistan, as opposed to handing the funds over to other NGOs or directly to the Pakistani government, which has set up its own national disaster relief fund.

Large nongovernmental organizations have complained of a slow start to donations by Canadians, given the scale of the disaster, something expected to change thanks to Ottawa’s announcement to match private charitable donations. Canada’s biggest banks announced Monday they were each pitching in $100,000 for flood relief.

But smaller organizations with links to Muslim communities across the country have been holding fundraising dinners since the crisis began.

Seema Javid of the Muslim Welfare Centre in eastern Toronto said her community organization had raised about $100,000, with $50,000 going toward 1,400 boxes of food – canned goods, sugar, dates – and blankets, being shipped out for free on flights from Pearson International Airport organized by Pakistan International Airlines.

Local youth volunteers – all fasting for Ramadan – were packing the last boxes on a truck Monday afternoon. Ms. Javid said her organization’s branch in Karachi would take the aid and deliver it to flood-stricken areas itself.

“People never trust [the government],” Ms. Javid said. “They ask us, if you are doing it yourself, we will donate. We are doing it ourselves this time.”

Khalid Usman, a former councillor in Markham, Ont., raised $420,000 for Pakistan flood victims at a dinner last week. The proceeds, he said, will go to the International Development Relief Foundation – a decision he says he feels good about because he knows the money will go to the people who need it most.

“There is a credibility gap,” he said of the Pakistani government. “People like myself will not take the chance.”

Sallah Hamdani, the executive director of Islamic Relief Canada – the local arm of a large British-based charity that counts Prince Charles as a patron – said he estimates his Hamilton-based group has brought in $1-million, with $20,000 pledged at a recent dinner in St. Catharines, Ont.

He said the pace of donations hasn’t been slow when compared to the level of giving seen after the 2005 earthquake in Pakistan.

Mr. Hamdani, who is now completing plans to send 15 Canadian doctors to the region, acknowledged some people are reluctant to give money until they are assured the country’s government won’t get its hands on it.

“The hesitation of people giving is out of fear that the government is going to take it or it’s not going to get to the people,” he said. But he added that the Pakistani government so far has helped his organization’s efforts with its boats and helicopters.

Word that his group’s people are actually in Pakistan using the money themselves does reassure donors, he said: “We are on the ground … that’s the line that usually gets people to give $1,000 instead of $100.”

Mr. Hamdani was critical of reports he had seen that some Pakistani expatriates were loading up with supplies and food and taking them to Pakistan by themselves, out of distrust for charities or the government. Without an organization experienced in delivering aid, these well-meaning individuals will end up doing little good.

“Don’t try to pick up and do it yourself. … People have tried, with good intentions, and go with a container full of food, and just get mugged,” he said.

(Plus, only cash donations are eligible for the federal government’s matching funds program, which will be administered by the Canadian International Development Agency.)

Mr. Hamdani said the fact that he and most of the volunteers at the charity’s Hamilton office are fasting during daylight hours for Ramadan reminds them, a little bit, of the suffering they are trying to alleviate.

“As hungry as we are, and as thirsty as we are, we know that there are people across the world that are hungrier and thirstier,” he said.

Much of the money is being raised through mosques. Farrukh Alam, the B.C. president of the Pakistan-Canada Association, said that of the $100,000 his group has raised, about half has come through mosques. He also said local community radio fundraisers have come up with more than $170,000.
Syed Aga of ICNA Relief, an arm of the Islamic Circle of North America (Canada), said a $50-a-head fundraising dinner in Toronto’s low-income Thorncliffe neighbourhood raised $40,000.

“They are not really well-to-do, but in spite of that, they bought the tickets,” he said.

Another fundraiser in Mississauga scheduled for Aug. 29 should raise twice that, he said. Already, his organization has committed $1.3-million to flood relief, anticipating at least that in donations. He said his group, which also raised funds to help with Haiti’s earthquake and the Asian tsunami in 2004, is now running medical clinics in Pakistan and is delivering tents and food aid.

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Re: Why many Pakistani-Americans aren't sending flood donations home

I only asked you about terrorists, US bombed the sh!t out of Afghanistan to remove terrorists but guess what more than 60% of Afghanistan is still controlled by Taliban. You can glorify the 40% of Afghanistan as much as you want but the fact is that US/coalition has failed miserably. Its neither about "berating" nor about "strategic partnership" its about achievements. You can thump your chest about 'US aid' as much you like but the fact is that money is "reimbursement" of expenses that Pakistan incurs, that money does not cover military-men that Pakistan lost in supporting this war.

India may be looked more favorably probably because India is not invading Pakistan via drone-attacks, do you have number counts of people died in drone-attacks? US claims all of them to be 'terrorists' but in almost all cases only 5-10% have been Taliban and in some cases only innocent. What do you suggest Pakistani public do in that case? Still consider US as friend and keep thanking for the "US aid"?

[quote]
Interestingly, their government has become increasingly vocal in its criticism of its eastern neighbor. Surely you are aware about the rhetoric coming from Kabul these days, especially in the wake of wikileaks revelations about the alleged cohabitation of ISI and the Taliban, that the "real root cause of terrorism" is Pakistan and its agencies, that the U.S. severs its ties with Pakistan, and that the NATO forces devote their energy in launching offensives against militants and their sanctuaries in Pakistan proper instead of in Afghanistan. The U.S. has shown commendable restraint despite the increasing chorus from some of Pakistan’s neighbors that the war in Afghanistan be changed into one in Pakistan and that Pakistan be regarded a pariah state, akin to North Korea or Iran.
[/QUOTE]

Pakistan has shown far more "commendable restraint" for the innocent lives lost by drone-attacks. As Pakistani I could care less about what India or Afghanistan thinks of Pakistan, we all know that US/coalition have failed to contain Taliban, failed to contain drugs which allegedly provide financial support. Pakistan kept telling US/Afghan govt to seal the Pak-Afghan border but they keep declining, I wonder why... did you ever wonder why?

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Re: Why many Pakistani-Americans aren’t sending flood donations home

Read # 44. As far as “supporting the war” is concerned Pakistan has repeatedly rebuffed calls to launch operations in North Waziristan against Afghan Taliban. Google, for example, Haqqani network. Much to the dismay of international community, Pakistan also continues to meddle in Afghanistan and provide sanctuaries to terrorist leaders it believes it could use for leverage in future.

The personnel Pakistan has lost and the expenses it has incurred are because of efforts to overcome jihadists and Taliban who are attacking Pakistani civilians on a weekly, if not a daily, basis. Many of these jihadists were nurtured and supported by state agencies for years. Now that these have turned their wrath against Pakistan and want to establish their rule over the country, it is no one’s responsibility but Pakistan’s to defeat them. It is ridiculous to expect “reimbursement” from a third party for what is essentially a war for survival of Pakistan.

For all I care “Pakistani public” can continue to rant against the boogeyman U.S. but many native to the tribal areas support the drone attacks. Read Farhat Taj for example. I would like to know when the U.S. claimed that all killed by drone attacks were terrorists. And from where did you learn “10% [of those killed] have been Taliban and in some cases only innocent?” Even if your figure is correct, which it most likely is not, it is not rocket science to fathom that there would be no need for drone attacks if the ISI and Pakistani army ceased their patronage of the Taliban. Yes again the Taliban in North Waziristan that plot against and attack NATO and Afghan forces, not just the faction that has turned against its former benefactors, the Pakistani establishment.

Any sensible person attuned to the dynamics of international relations will recognize U.S. as a friend. Even the Pakistani army does that. As for aid, it is indeed laudable that U.S. has been giving billions to Pakistan, especially at a time of recession when over 10 million Americans are unemployed and there are many many poor, homeless and undernourished people in the U.S.

One reason why “Pak-Afghan border” is not closed is because the Afghans do not recognize it as a legitimate border! Recall that the British annexed KP, the tribal areas from Afghanistan. Afghans were forced to sign a treaty with the British recognizing the Durand line, which, after the creation of Pakistan, they now consider void. Some influential Pashtun leaders ( for instance, Abdul Gaffar Khan) in fact were opposed to the concept of Pakistan and many in Afghanistan still favor “loy Afghanistan.”

Also recall that Hamid Karzai has described the Durrand Line as a “line of hate” that divides Pashtuns. More importantly thus closing the “border” will not work because people on both sides of the Line are of the same ethnic group, maintain deep fraternal ties with one another and travel back and forth. However a policy of better policing and ensuring that people do not use Pakistan’s soil as sanctuaries to plot attacks against other states is eminently achievable.

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Re: Why many Pakistani-Americans aren’t sending flood donations home

Pakistan meddling in Afghanistan while unable to keep itself safe, close the browser than think for a second, how much of it makes sense. Some of Haqqani leadership may be in Pakistan after they ran away from Afghanistan as result of US invasion.

Did you forget who sowed the seed of this terrorism? Who is now fueling it? Pakistan is facing this was because of US. Before US invasion of Afghanistan there were no daily/weekly suicide bombings in Pakistan.

Pakistan can’t afford to open multiple fronts when one front is not fully closed. I believe Pakistani govt already mentioned that, also they said that North Waz will be taken care of after other parts are done with.

Personally I think US should be gone from Afghanistan. Neither US is going to be able to completely eradicate ‘terrorism’ that it claims in Afghanistan, nor there is any advantage unless US stepped in the region to keep a check on China.

Thats a BS excuse. If that is believed to be correct excuse then it means US is openly backing Afghanistan and not supporting Pakistan for border existence. If border can’t be sealed then US should expect ‘crossing’ and need to stop whining about it.

Again another BS excuse. There are tons of countries in the world where border divided nations/communities/races. Look at eastern side of Pakistan, Punjab was divided into two but Pakistan-India border still exists. Tell them to come up with some other excuse.

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Re: Why many Pakistani-Americans aren't sending flood donations home

It doesn't make sense because you don't want it to. Pakistan can afford to meddle in Afghanistan because it distinguishes between "good" and "bad" Taliban. The latter (Pakistani Taliban) attack Pakistan; the former (Afghan Taliban), which don't, Pakistan counts as strategic assets. That it does to wield clout in Afghanistan. Google wikilaks. Also read the NYT article whose link I provided. It will start making sense!

Pakistan needs to apprehend them instead of happily turning a blind eye to them as they plot against and kill NATO personnel and Afghan forces and civilians.

And denial is not just a river in Egypt. Of course the Muslims who love to hate sowed the seeds of terrorism. They are also the ones fueling it. The jihadists and the Taliban that the Pakistani state and its agencies nurtured couldn’t just drop dead after they had wreaked havoc in Kashmir and Afghanistan.

That was because Taliban and their “guests” were too busy killing others and plotting against innocent people. Such as the 3000 Americans who died on September 11 2001. Ever wondered why the U.S. invaded Afghanistan, and not Indonesia?

Besides there were plenty of terrorist attacks, especially against minorities like Shias, even before U.S. invasion but suicide attacks gained trajectory only after the Lal Masjid episode and the Swat fiasco. It was only a matter of time before Taliban would turn against their former benefactors and start dreaming about their own booty of Islamic emirate of Pakistan. Especially once they had tasted power in Afghanistan, with not just a little support from Pakistan.

That is what one would call, in your parlance, a “BS excuse.” Many in the tribal areas believe that if the federal government is unwilling or incapable of purging terrorists from their midst then it should let others do the job. Again read Farhat Taj.

LOL U.S. has no need to have “stepped in the region to keep a check on China.” China has been eminently non-confrontational and has even made amends with India. China also has excellent ties with the U.S., whose one corporation alone, Wal-Mart, does billions of dollars worth of business with China.

No. Pakistan should instead police the border and hand back the terrorists to Afghanistan.

Unlike Pashtuns, who are all Muslims, people of Punjab on the different sides of the India-Pakistan border, who are not, do not consider themselves as part of one “nation” and do not have the fraternal ties like those which unite Pashtuns. That is why, for example, a notion of “Pashtunistan” exists and not of “Punjabistan.”

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Re: Why many Pakistani-Americans aren't sending flood donations home

As if US doesn't count "good Taliban" and "bad Taliban" LMAO.

Yes, it has nothing to do with US pumping billions in 80s against Russia, creating AlQaida. You are right, denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Ever wondered why US didn't want a "trial" of AlQaida men in neutral country which Taliban had proposed?

You are right, it was about time AlQaida turned against former benefactors.

Why can't US police the Afghan side of the border? When they can bomb villages by drones they should be able to police the border too, after all they will be one of the major benefactor.


You can give whatever twist you like but the fact is nations are divided around the world by the borders, Pashtuns need to learn that and Afghan govt need to enforce that.

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Re: Why many Pakistani-Americans aren't sending flood donations home

THis discussion has nothing to with original topic of thread. Closed.