Re: Why Madhab? Why not ALL 4? WHY WHY WHY?
Waiting for the answer to the question listed above.
Re: Why Madhab? Why not ALL 4? WHY WHY WHY?
Question: I really would like to know who Wahabies are and what they believe in. I'am hanafi and was wondering what is the difference between us and them. Jazzakallahairun selam
Answer: The Wahabis, who call themselves Salafis, are a group who had appeared in the last few centuries and hold beliefs contrary to the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah. They try to pull the wool over our eyes by affiliating themselves with the Salaf (Sahabah and Tabi'en) but in effect their beliefs and practices are completely in contradictory with those of the Salaf. The Wahabis are in essence Mujassimah (anthropomorphists-Those who attribute a body to Allah Ta'ala). They attribute a hand, leg, face etc to Allah Ta'ala, while the illustrious Ulama of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jama'ah hold fast to the belief that Allah knows best the meaning of these words. Similar is the case with all the sifat (qualities) etc in the Quran ie. the Wahabis take them on there apparent meaning , claiming that interpreting the Quran is not permissible, while we say that Allah knows best what it means or at times we interpret it in a suitable manner. -The Wahabis reject the permissibility of using a deceased person as a intermediary in dua, while we hold that it is permissible. -The Wahabis reject the Ambiyaa being alive in their graves - The Wahabis hold that Allah is really resting on His throne in the sky, while we hold that this is from the Mutashabihaat.(Those unclear statements hose meaning is only known to Allah). - The Ulama of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jamaa'ah disagree with the destruction of numerous blessed historical landmarks by the Wahabis. -The Ulama of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jamaa'ah hold that taqleed of one mazhab is necessary, while the Wahabis generally do not adhere to a mazhab and claim that following one imam blindly is Bidah and shirk. -There are dozens of other differences. The Wahabis are vehement opponents of the Asharis and Maaturidis, who constitute the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah and are two groups whose beliefs are correct. They also vehemently oppose tawassuf. It is necessary for us to be on our guard against them as they are very active propagators of their Baatil and false beliefs. and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
- Mufti Ebrahim Desai
Re: Why Madhab? Why not ALL 4? WHY WHY WHY?
Answer: The Wahabis, who call themselves Salafis, are a group who had appeared in the last few centuries and hold beliefs contrary to the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah. They try to pull the wool over our eyes by affiliating themselves with the Salaf (Sahabah and Tabi'en) but in effect their beliefs and practices are completely in contradictory with those of the Salaf. The Wahabis are in essence Mujassimah (anthropomorphists-Those who attribute a body to Allah Ta'ala). They attribute a hand, leg, face etc to Allah Ta'ala, while the illustrious Ulama of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jama'ah hold fast to the belief that Allah knows best the meaning of these words. Similar is the case with all the sifat (qualities) etc in the Quran ie. the Wahabis take them on there apparent meaning , claiming that interpreting the Quran is not permissible, while we say that Allah knows best what it means or at times we interpret it in a suitable manner. -The Wahabis reject the permissibility of using a deceased person as a intermediary in dua, while we hold that it is permissible. -The Wahabis reject the Ambiyaa being alive in their graves - The Wahabis hold that Allah is really resting on His throne in the sky, while we hold that this is from the Mutashabihaat.(Those unclear statements hose meaning is only known to Allah). - The Ulama of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jamaa'ah disagree with the destruction of numerous blessed historical landmarks by the Wahabis. -The Ulama of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jamaa'ah hold that taqleed of one mazhab is necessary, while the Wahabis generally do not adhere to a mazhab and claim that following one imam blindly is Bidah and shirk. -There are dozens of other differences. The Wahabis are vehement opponents of the Asharis and Maaturidis, who constitute the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah and are two groups whose beliefs are correct. They also vehemently oppose tawassuf. It is necessary for us to be on our guard against them as they are very active propagators of their Baatil and false beliefs. and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best - Mufti Ebrahim Desai
Salman bhai, now we need you to be here to able to answer that question where cricketplaya bhai have said. Cricketplaya, is that true? I disagree with few points wheather it is a true or not. Where did you get this information from? Who thinks that Allah Tallah is resting on His throne in the sky and I did not even know that.
Re: Why Madhab? Why not ALL 4? WHY WHY WHY?
I bear witness to Allah that as far as I have seen or studied salafis, Mufti Ibrahim Desai is either lying and slandering or being very careless in giving this answer.
Re: Why Madhab? Why not ALL 4? WHY WHY WHY?
Answer: The Wahabis, who call themselves Salafis, are a group who had appeared in the last few centuries and hold beliefs contrary to the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah. They try to pull the wool over our eyes by affiliating themselves with the Salaf (Sahabah and Tabi'en) but in effect their beliefs and practices are completely in contradictory with those of the Salaf. The Wahabis are in essence Mujassimah (anthropomorphists-Those who attribute a body to Allah Ta'ala). They attribute a hand, leg, face etc to Allah Ta'ala, while the illustrious Ulama of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jama'ah hold fast to the belief that Allah knows best the meaning of these words. Similar is the case with all the sifat (qualities) etc in the Quran ie. the Wahabis take them on there apparent meaning , claiming that interpreting the Quran is not permissible, while we say that Allah knows best what it means or at times we interpret it in a suitable manner. -The Wahabis reject the permissibility of using a deceased person as a intermediary in dua, while we hold that it is permissible. -The Wahabis reject the Ambiyaa being alive in their graves - The Wahabis hold that Allah is really resting on His throne in the sky, while we hold that this is from the Mutashabihaat.(Those unclear statements hose meaning is only known to Allah). - The Ulama of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jamaa'ah disagree with the destruction of numerous blessed historical landmarks by the Wahabis. -The Ulama of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jamaa'ah hold that taqleed of one mazhab is necessary, while the Wahabis generally do not adhere to a mazhab and claim that following one imam blindly is Bidah and shirk. -There are dozens of other differences. The Wahabis are vehement opponents of the Asharis and Maaturidis, who constitute the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah and are two groups whose beliefs are correct. They also vehemently oppose tawassuf. It is necessary for us to be on our guard against them as they are very active propagators of their Baatil and false beliefs. and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best - Mufti Ebrahim Desai
Woaah...what has mufti ibrahim desai been smoking lately?
See this is the problem with extreme Salafies and extreme Deobandies, while both have their strong points and weaknesses, there is this perpetual war between the two groups...each trying to destroy the other.
The Wahaabies (which is really a derogatory word hence iam going to refer them as the Ahle Sunnah wal jamaah from now onwards) believe what Allah has described about himself in the Quran and what the Prophet described him as in his hadith, and the fact that Allah is different and cannot resemble any of his creation.
If Allah talks about His Hands, His Shins, His Feet etc. in the Quran...than who are we to say that Allah doesn't have any of these.
"No just estimate have they made of Allah, such as is due to Him: On the Day of Resurrection, the whole earth will be in His Grasp and the heavens will be rolled up in His right Hand. Glory to Him! High is He above the partners they attribute to Him"(Qur'an 39:67)
We, the ahle Sunnah wal Jammaah, affirm these attributes to Allah, and also claim that these body parts look NOTHING like ours, and are in no shape or form similar to us. We dont even think about how they'd look like, cause that'll be innovation and would lead to destruction.
Regarding where Allah is seated, there is a hadith on the authority of Ibn `Abbas (ra ) that the Kursiis the resting place of the Feet of the Most Beneficent, and that none can estimate its vastness but He (swt ), Most Glorified, Most High.
And as far as the issue of madhab is concerned, i find it the most stupid issue ever, and so much effort, time, resources have been spent on this issue..its not even funny, especially when their are more serious dangers facing the Ummah.
If strictly following one of the four Imams is madatory, than what about those who were there before Imam Malik, Hanbal, Abu Hanifa and Shafe'ee. What about those who were there during the times of one of the four imams and had a different madhab than them, like the great Mountains of Iman..Imam Layth, a contemporary of Imam Malik...and they both used to exchange great deal of information and knowledge. What about Imam as Thawri, whose madhab died after him. What abt Imam Bukhari, who coined his own madhab.
Were they wrong?
But if someone wants to strictly follow one of the four imams, let him follow..nothing wrong with that.
The following is an extract from one of the works of Imam Mohammad bin Abdul Wahaab's son. And this extract basically defines the official "Wahaabi" view on madhabs, since this is coming from the master himself. Anything other than this, that you see from contemporary wahaabi and salafies is not the "official wahaabi stand" on the issue.
[quote]
Regarding following the madhaahib:
And in the furoo' (branches) of the religion we are upon the madhhab of Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, and we do not object to whoever follows one of the four imaams, as opposed to other than them whose madhaahib have not been clarified.
The Raafidhah, Zaydiyyah, Imaamiyyah and the likes of them: we do not accept from them anything from their corrupt madhaahib, rather we require that they follow one of the four imaams.
And we do not deserve the level of al-ijtihaad al-mutlaq (absolute ijtihaad), and none among us claims it. However, in some matters, if we find an authentic nass (text) from the Book or the Sunnah that is not abrogated or specified or contradicted by a stronger evidence, and one of the four imaams says according to it, then we take it and leave the saying of the madhhab, such as the matter of the inheritance of the grandfather and the brothers, for we put the grandfather first in the inheritance, even though the madhhab of the Hanaabilah says otherwise.
And we do not inquire into a person's madhhab, and we do not oppose him, unless we find a clear text opposing the madhhab of one of the imaams in a matter involving an outward symbol of the religion (shi'aar), such as the imaam of the prayers; so we order the Hanafi and the Maaliki, for example, to observe the same calmness when rising from rukoo' (i'tidaal), and in the sitting between the sajdatayn, due to the clear evidence for that, as opposed to the Shaafi'i imam reciting the basmalah aloud, for we do not order him to recite it quietly. And there is a great difference between these two matters. So when the evidence is strong, then we advise them to follow the nass, even if it opposes the madhhab, and that is found only very rarely.
And there is no objection to ijtihaad in some matters as opposed to others, and this is not contradictory to the lack of the claim to ijtihaad. For it has been that a group of the imaams of the four madhaahib had their own particular views regarding certain matters that were in opposition to their madhhab, whose founder they followed.
Translated from the first volume of "ad-Durar as-Saniyyah"
by Ash-Shaykh 'Abdullaah ibn ash-Shaykh Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhaab
[/quote]
Re: Why Madhab? Why not ALL 4? WHY WHY WHY?
See this is the problem with extreme Salafies and extreme Deobandies, while both have their strong points and weaknesses, there is this perpetual war between the two groups...each trying to destroy the other.
The Wahaabies (which is really a derogatory word hence iam going to refer them as the Ahle Sunnah wal jamaah from now onwards) believe what Allah has described about himself in the Quran and what the Prophet described him as in his hadith, and the fact that Allah is different and cannot resemble any of his creation.
If Allah talks about His Hands, His Shins, His Feet etc. in the Quran...than who are we to say that Allah doesn't have any of these.
"No just estimate have they made of Allah, such as is due to Him: On the Day of Resurrection, the whole earth will be in His Grasp and the heavens will be rolled up in His right Hand. Glory to Him! High is He above the partners they attribute to Him"(Qur'an 39:67)
We, the ahle Sunnah wal Jammaah, affirm these attributes to Allah, and also claim that these body parts look NOTHING like ours, and are in no shape or form similar to us. We dont even think about how they'd look like, cause that'll be innovation and would lead to destruction.
Regarding where Allah is seated, there is a hadith on the authority of Ibn `Abbas (ra ) that the Kursiis the resting place of the Feet of the Most Beneficent, and that none can estimate its vastness but He (swt ), Most Glorified, Most High.
And as far as the issue of madhab is concerned, i find it the most stupid issue ever, and so much effort, time, resources have been spent on this issue..its not even funny, especially when their are more serious dangers facing the Ummah.
If strictly following one of the four Imams is madatory, than what about those who were there before Imam Malik, Hanbal, Abu Hanifa and Shafe'ee. What about those who were there during the times of one of the four imams and had a different madhab than them, like the great Mountains of Iman..Imam Layth, a contemporary of Imam Malik...and they both used to exchange great deal of information and knowledge. What about Imam as Thawri, whose madhab died after him. What abt Imam Bukhari, who coined his own madhab. Were they wrong?
But if someone wants to strictly follow one of the four imams, let him follow..nothing wrong with that.
The following is an extract from one of the works of Imam Mohammad bin Abdul Wahaab's son. And this extract basically defines the official "Wahaabi" view on madhabs, since this is coming from the master himself. Anything other than this, that you see from contemporary wahaabi and salafies is not the "official wahaabi stand" on the issue.
All fair and well.
You cannot just say that Allah has hands just because you read it. You have to understand the verse clearly which is why we say Allah knows best.
There were more than 4 Imams back then but the 4 most widely accepted were these 4 Imams. The people before the Imams were known to be Salafs, which is why you can't have Salafs now because of many hadiths on the same issue. How is a layman supposed to figure out which hadith is stronger. Which is why each madhab has their criteria of which hadtih is stronger on a particular issue.
You see on the last sentence, you made it clear that we cannot really follow Wahab because of the distortion of it by the current Wahabis/Salafis.
Re: Why Madhab? Why not ALL 4? WHY WHY WHY?
Brother, what do you want me to say about this great scholar, Mufti Desi, Allahhu Akabar. What can you say about a person who say and believe that the Imaams of Khana Kaba and masjid-e-Nabqi are gone astray and have false beliefs? Why in the world Allah Subhaanhu Wa Ta’ala send His blessings on those who have false beliefs and give them the oppournity to lead His slaves in the greates house of Allah? All i can say is that may Allah Subhaanhu Wa Ta’ala help this ummah, Ameen!
Brother, did you ever bother finding out how great imaams (e.g. imaam Bukhari) put together their ahadith books? There’re so many rules and if a hadith is well withing those rules then it considered to be either Sahih or hassan!
I’ve said this so many times in past few days and say it again, all the ahadith books were put together after the 4 imaams and then great scholars who came afterwards either interpretated the Sahih ahadith or explained why and how and which adadith are daeef(weak) or fabricated. All the scholars at current era who tells us which hadith is Sahih and which isn’t , they get their proofs from those scholars’ books!
A wise momin wouldn’t worry about how Prophets (Allahi Salam) alive in graves, what kind of life they have. And whether Allah physically is every where or just His knowledge! These are the things which beyond our human understandings and could lead great firtnah if we try to understand them with our limited knowledge and thinking!
here’s something for every one to read:
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=226047
Re: Why Madhab? Why not ALL 4? WHY WHY WHY?
Can somebody please post the hadith from Abu Dawood, where Muad r.a. was sent to yemen, and what the Prophet pbuh told him...
it pretty much explains it all.
Re: Why Madhab? Why not ALL 4? WHY WHY WHY?
Bro, how should a layman know which hadith to follow? There are many hadiths on the same issues.
Re: Why Madhab? Why not ALL 4? WHY WHY WHY?
please re-read my that post again, Jazak Allah
Re: Why Madhab? Why not ALL 4? WHY WHY WHY?
[quote=cricketplaya]
Question: I really would like to know who Wahabies are and what they believe in. I’am hanafi and was wondering what is the difference between us and them. Jazzakallahairun selam
Answer:
I thought salafis have originated just 100 years back. Contradiction as usual
No doubt you can rais fingers on us. But let me tell you I am not in any group not any party we just follow Quran and Hadith.
For what you have aforementioned,
Qul Hatoo Burhanakum, in Quntum Sadiqeen
Bring me the proof if your truthful.
Yes, tell me did Prophet :saw: has passed any such statement then I wil be the first one to do so. Btw, I am just reading articles about Tawheed and from a Muwahhid point of view its the same argument as the Mushriks of Makkah.
I will answere some more, once I am free