Peace xfrodobagginsx
psyah: What you state confirms that the Bible is not the Word of God it never claims to be the Word of God.
*frodo: Yes is does. *
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
psyah: No it does not ... I can go on like this if you like inspiration inspiration inspiration .... please be yourself inspired and come show me the lay person I am how is it that inspiration of God means The Word of God .... how is it so???
psyah: It contains the narrative of people who quote the Word of God but it is not in itself the Word of God.
frodo: Simply not true. The Holy Spirit wrote the bible through them:
*2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. {in old time: or, at any time} *
psyah: How can you say that a man moved by God, is the same as the Word of God?
psyah: The Qur'an on the other hand is the Word of God.
frodo: False because it contradicts the bible and was not written by the eyewitnesses.
psyah: That is not a cogent argument ... The Qur'an tells that it contradicts the Bible in parts, but it also says that in other parts it agrees with the Bible. The Qur'an speaks the truth because just as you claim the Qur'an contradicts the Bible so does the Qur'an say this. You are not saying anything that I disgree with, but your conclusion is illogical. You say that Qur'an contradicts the Bible, the Qur'an says that it contradicts parts of the Bible you are both in agreement then when the Qur'an claims to be the Word of God why disagree with it here?
psyah: So far you have shown nothing that shows that I am wrong.
frodo: Yes I have.
psyah: Nothing
psyah: Paul was not called by anyone to preach the gospel, he changed the teachings of Jesus (AS) and companions of Jesus (AS) fled from him and some even argued with him.
frodo: That's not true. He was Called by Jesus Himself on the Road to Demascus:
Ac 9:5 And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" Then the Lord said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads."
So he, trembling and astonished, said, "Lord, what do You want me to do?" Then the Lord said to him, "Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."
Ac 9:10 ¶ Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord."
So the Lord said to him, "Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying."And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight."
Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.
"And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name."But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
"For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
psyah: So says Paul! You believe him? I sure don't. He preached a different gospel. I can show you all the differences if you like.
frodo: Jesus's Disciples taught side by side with Paul:
Ac 19:1 ¶ And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Ac 19:30 And when Paul would have entered in unto the people, the disciples suffered him not.
Ac 20:1 ¶ And after the uproar was ceased, Paul called unto him the disciples, and embraced them, and departed for to go into Macedonia.
Ac 20:7 ¶ And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Ac 21:4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.
psyah: Is this the best you can do? I can present passages from the Bible where the disciples were with Paul, but these do not state anywhere they were teaching side by side ... they only stayed together and travelled together. They wanted to bring him towards them and change his thoughts.
psyah: Some Christians and Jews who converted to Islam during the time of Muhammad (SAW) were the very people who flew the flags of the legacy of the true Messianic teachings. They were the inheritors of the true companions of Jesus (AS) the very ones who fled from Paul.
frodo: So untrue. Islam didn't come along until hundreds of years after Paul died.
psyah: You can try giving a proper reply. Obviously you didn't read or understand what I wrote. To clarify hundreds of years later through a chain of the inheritence of Christ (AS)'s teachings handed down to the Companions and in turn their companions those people who were not settled in the areas controlled by Romans, became Muslim because they were expecting the Comforter.
psyah: The true leader of the companions of Jesus (AS) was Cephas (Peter)
frodo: Even if you believe that, Peter preached the same gospel as Paul and along side Paul.
psyah: Show Me !!!
psyah: If you study Islam with an open heart and mind you will see how it supports the previous scriptures but at the same time contextualises it and helps you root out where people have been mistaken.
frodo: No, it Directly contradicts it. It says that Jesus Christ didn't die for your sins and that judas iscariot did. The bible says the judas iscariot BETRAYED Jesus and Jesus was crucified for your sins, so the koran makes Jesus's enemy the hero of the story. This is a HUGE issue since faith In what Jesus did on the cross is required for salvation.
psyah: The Qur'an says that on the Day of Judgement Jesus (AS) will deny ever calling people to worship Him. This is true see the words of Jesus (AS) in the gospels and find if anywhere he (AS) called you to worship him. The Qur'an never mentions anyone by name for who was crucified. Besides crucifixion is a shameful punishment and we honour Jesus (AS) knowing that God will protect the Messiah that is why he is called the Messiah.
frodo: I will post a chart below to compare the biblical eyewitess teachings vs. the koran.
psyah: fine, what you aim to prove by doing so only you know brother!
psyah: The conclusions from the Council of Nicea for example is included in those mistakes.
frodo: There are no mistakes, there were false prophets who wrote fraudulent books and tried to get them included with the eyewitness accounts. The books of the bible are all God's word and were merely confirmed at the coucil of nicea. The false books were rejected because they were not God's word, they weren't written by the eyewitnesses and they contradicted the rest of scripture. Most of them also weren't written until after the death of the eyewitnesses 150-or more years later. The koran fits into that catagory.
psyah: You have such a history for your scripture and still claim it to be from God? There is only one truth of Nicea and that was a political venture to unify people by bringing upon them the most readily accepted versions to control the highest number of people, the dissenters would be killed off. That is exactly what happened. There were Unitarian leaders through time who denied the Trinity also if only you are less selective of your Christian history.