Re: Why is'nt there a secular Islamic country
Is it not a lame explanation. That there is no "Islamic" country in this world. Why is'nt there one... Why are non-muslims be able to become more sharia compliant than their muslim counterparts.
Not a lame explanation. It is admitting that we, the Muslims are at fault and western countries have succeeded in implementing principles that are in line with shariah in their countres, what else do you want?
Re: Why is'nt there a secular Islamic country
Point is if you do not agree with what others are saying, you try to act smart... Let me repeat the question to you.. Let me try and make it simple for you. "Why is it that you find muslims **clamoring for equality in the west, while **they deny the basic rights in Islamic Countries" Read the above line again. If you have anything intelligent to say then please do, otherwise you know what to do.
I do not 'try to act' smart. :D
You have been given answer by X2 above. If you did not get it let me simplify that here for you dear.
when you say 'muslims', it shows you have problem with all muslims and treat them as a whole group of people with one thought.
X2 said that is not true. A muslim living in west is and can be quite different from those so called muslims who make injustified rules in muslim countries.
Also isn't it good if muslims living ANYWHERE ask for equal right? Is that a problem? Should they be treated differently because some 'muslim' country thousands of miles away has bad laws?
Now get off the high horses please and try not to make sweeping hateul statements. Shabash and Thanks. :)
Re: Why is’nt there a secular Islamic country
you know what, i decided to do just that, asked my wife, myself, my siblings, my cousins, my bro in law, and then i went to the elders who immigrated to UK US and canada etc where there loyalties lie.
so far not a single one has said their loyalties for their old country or their parents or grandparents country are above their loyalty to their country.
now what? 
simpler answer- There are actually protests within muslim countries by muslims. I am personally aware of rallies for minority protection in Pakistan, and rallies against blasphemy laws. You may however need to find that info, just because its not not indiatimes or cnn page does not mean it does not happen 
so you are running 0 for 2
Re: Why isn't there a secular Islamic country
as a Muslim either you are with Islam or against it so if somebody calls himself a muslim to and secular to than he is against Islam
Re: Why isn't there a secular Islamic country
^ simple as that! shabash, ye jannat ka ticket app ka hova.
Re: Why isn’t there a secular Islamic country
Re: Why isn't there a secular Islamic country
as a Muslim either you are with Islam or against it so if somebody calls himself a muslim to and secular to than he is against Islam
X2 I rest my case. I have nothing more to add..
Re: Why is'nt there a secular Islamic country
you know what, i decided to do just that, asked my wife, myself, my siblings, my cousins, my bro in law, and then i went to the elders who immigrated to UK US and canada etc where there loyalties lie. so far not a single one has said their loyalties for their old country or their parents or grandparents country are above their loyalty to their country. now what?
Good for you.. I stayed in US for quite a number of years and am back in my home country-India. While I was in US, I had met a lot of desis who used to profess loyalty to their country though they have stayed in US for a number of generations...
simpler answer- There are actually protests within muslim countries by muslims. I am personally aware of rallies for minority protection in Pakistan, and rallies against blasphemy laws. You may however need to find that info, just because its not not indiatimes or cnn page does not mean it does not happen :)
so you are running 0 for 2
Where do I go to get this info... I came here and found none :) . I see many who spew venom...
Re: Why is’nt there a secular Islamic country
that’s edited, i’m sorry but they lived in the the united states for generations and yet they still don’t profess loyalty to it? why did they leave the old country in the first place?? don’t understand why they’re living in the US then.
it’s like a chinese couple living in india for generations and yet could care less for india by feeling love only for china, i can’t imagine people that are like that, drinking the water, eating the fresh food that’s grown there every day using the utilities of a country and yet professing loyalty to some other country? 
Re: Why is'nt there a secular Islamic country
Good for you.. I stayed in US for quite a number of years and am back in my home country-India. While I was in US, I had met a lot of desis who used to profess loyalty to their country though they have stayed in US for a number of generations...
for a number of generations? the vast majority of Pakistani origin folks in US is first or send gen, if u met a lot of desis who were third gen, then I am impressed. in my experience, a third generation person cares as much about his ancestral land as curiosity allows, nothing more. In the cases I have seen this in UK, these were illiterate families who moved to UK, lived in desi ghettos, and never integrated well, which is an unfortunate situation.
Where do I go to get this info... I came here and found none :) . I see many who spew venom...
seek and you shall find..we can always find what we are looking for, have you been looking for that info? you dont have to answer, but please be honest with yourself. It is far easier to make snide comments, pick up on real issues in pakistan which btw no one is arguing the existence of, and rub it in people's faces. I have been on this site for years and have seen the same pattern repeat. So the question to you is, how do you interact with people where they know you are interested in a real dialogue and discussion with mutual respect rather then a pissing contest. as far as the venom spewing types, i ignore thm, and i suggest you do as well, because if you are going on one extreme to counter their extreme, you end up alienating sensible people who you would have enjoyed great interactions with. Ask some of the sensible folks about this info, but if the approach starts with a critical accusatory manner then people who otherwise would have engaged see that as a futile exercise and not even bother to interact. Upto you whether any of what I am saying resonates with you or not, I just thought I would state it rather than lose the few opportunities that indiand and pakistanis have for direct interaction.
I say few because it is true, the overwhelming population of India and Pakistan have never had direct interactions with someone from the other side. It amazes me that the overwhelming majority of people who have never had interactions, when they do, it is almost always a positive one. If people like us who are educated, have been outside our neck of the woods i.e. south asia and should be more open, if we cant have a reasonable discourse, fiocusing on positives, and handling negatives in a sensible manner, how can we ever expect the masses in the two countries to be able to do that, and if they cant do that, it is far easier for any powers that me to use the other side as a bogeyman to keep their own grip on power.
just a few thoughts amigo.
oh and for a short answer, start with human rights groups in Pakistan, they are very active and the people in their rallies etc are Pakistanis :)
Re: Why isn't there a secular Islamic country
X2 I rest my case. I have nothing more to add..
If it was as easy at taking one soundbite out of one individual with extreme or illformed views, i would have concluded all indians to be bigoted assclowns ages ago simply by some of the characters that stumble upon this site.
lucky for me that instead of 'resting my case' to support some lame views, i decided to broaden my horizons, ignore anomanlies, try to have dialogues and even reach out to ppl fairly set in their ways due to decades of brainwashing living in either of those 2 countries. Suggest you attempt to do the same.
I..have nothing more to add. ;-) always open for a real discussion though.
Re: Why isn't there a secular Islamic country
While it is accepted practice for Muslims to feel bad when their rights are violated in a non-muslim country, why is it that the same muslims do not clamour for minority rights in muslim majority countries. While most of the muslim who have settled abroad want secularism in the country, they would want Sharia to be implemented in their homeland. Why this double standard...
2-What do you understand about shria law?
1- I know Christians in pakistan can buy alcohol I can't.
Re: Why isn't there a secular Islamic country
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Re: Why isn't there a secular Islamic country
While it is accepted practice for Muslims to feel bad when their rights are violated in a non-muslim country
Is it? Really? This is unacceptable! We have to make them understand that they shouldn't feel bad if their rights are violated!
Re: Why isn't there a secular Islamic country
Kudlaguy, from "secularism in Islamic countries" you have changed track to "Muslims not forget their home country abroad"? How exactly they both are relevant?
By the way, before starting bashing 2nd & 3rd generation muslims, you should have "googled" FOKANA, TANA, JNF, AKKA and countless more. But I guess you only want Muslims to forget their home country's culture.
Re: Why is'nt there a secular Islamic country
for a number of generations? the vast majority of Pakistani origin folks in US is first or send gen, if u met a lot of desis who were third gen, then I am impressed. in my experience, a third generation person cares as much about his ancestral land as curiosity allows, nothing more. In the cases I have seen this in UK, these were illiterate families who moved to UK, lived in desi ghettos, and never integrated well, which is an unfortunate situation.
I met a lot of gujjus who are third or fourth generations in US. These people still talked about things are much better in India... Dont know why though...
seek and you shall find..we can always find what we are looking for, have you been looking for that info? you dont have to answer, but please be honest with yourself. It is far easier to make snide comments, pick up on real issues in pakistan which btw no one is arguing the existence of, and rub it in people's faces. I have been on this site for years and have seen the same pattern repeat. So the question to you is, how do you interact with people where they know you are interested in a real dialogue and discussion with mutual respect rather then a pissing contest. as far as the venom spewing types, i ignore thm, and i suggest you do as well, because if you are going on one extreme to counter their extreme, you end up alienating sensible people who you would have enjoyed great interactions with. Ask some of the sensible folks about this info, but if the approach starts with a critical accusatory manner then people who otherwise would have engaged see that as a futile exercise and not even bother to interact. Upto you whether any of what I am saying resonates with you or not, I just thought I would state it rather than lose the few opportunities that indiand and pakistanis have for direct interaction.
I say few because it is true, the overwhelming population of India and Pakistan have never had direct interactions with someone from the other side. It amazes me that the overwhelming majority of people who have never had interactions, when they do, it is almost always a positive one. If people like us who are educated, have been outside our neck of the woods i.e. south asia and should be more open, if we cant have a reasonable discourse, fiocusing on positives, and handling negatives in a sensible manner, how can we ever expect the masses in the two countries to be able to do that, and if they cant do that, it is far easier for any powers that me to use the other side as a bogeyman to keep their own grip on power.
just a few thoughts amigo.
oh and for a short answer, start with human rights groups in Pakistan, they are very active and the people in their rallies etc are Pakistanis :)
Agree with you on this one... Let me seek and try to find. I will come back to you sometime in the future on how my seeking went :)
Re: Why isn't there a secular Islamic country
Kudlaguy, from "secularism in Islamic countries" you have changed track to "Muslims not forget their home country abroad"? How exactly they both are relevant?
By the way, before starting bashing 2nd & 3rd generation muslims, you should have "googled" FOKANA, TANA, JNF, AKKA and countless more. But I guess you only want Muslims to forget their home country's culture.
Please read the other posts and you might understand how that is relevant.
Re: Why isn't there a secular Islamic country
Please read the other posts and you might understand how that is relevant.
No I don't. The only "link" is a very small but vocal minority (vocal because they are given unfair exposure) calling for sharia law in west. You are using them as a stick to beat all Muslims abroad. Generalisation galore! Conviniently ignoring the fact that majority of Muslims living in non-Muslim countries do not share this view. You may lookup for secularism's definition. Muslims in non-Muslim countries has no political influence to change the nature of government. This preposterous notion, that Muslims want to change way of life of their host countries is often used by extreme right wing in "west", to hide their race based bigeotry (because being anti-Islam/religion is not considered racism).