Their country, their laws.....accept it or leave
I see where you are coming from and I agree but...
1) The ban on the Burqa's, Minarets etc. means they should no longer harp on about their freedoms because they don't allow freedom of expression to everyone (their freedoms are only limited to themselves, those that are with them and agree with them).
2) They should stop pointing fingers at Muslim countries and trying to impose their own "freedoms" on them.
The key words there are** "Islamic states**." They have no delusions of being secular nations, and openly proclaim that they are theocratic states. I certainly don't agree with all of their laws, but unlike the Europeans, they aren't trying to claim that they're open, liberal, secular democracies while stripping minorities of the right to practice their religion freely.
Ditto!
Re: Why is the burqa being banned in Europe?
the reason why they are doing this:
the rights of women are exploited
let me think, till 1980 a woman was not allowed to vote in Switzerland...
this is all blasphemy and propganda against Islam. Let's see who falls prey to the chaser
world belongs to allah ,but he has not given it to you ,you are bound to obey and respect souverignity of any country unless allah has given you full authority to deal with them on his behalf,
the reason why they are doing this:
the rights of women are exploited
let me think, till 1980 a woman was not allowed to vote in Switzerland...
this is all blasphemy and propganda against Islam. Let's see who falls prey to the chaser
every country has right of protecting their country and country men ,cowards may come in most unsuspectible garbs of women and blast the innocent in the name of woman's rights .
europians have better record of human rights than middle east and south asian countries , voting rights have been violated many times in pakistan also , monarchs and dictaters dont have word " human rights" in their dictionary.
then why majority of muslims are condsidering this new wave in european countries as anti-islam, against muslims etc...pls go thru the rest of replies by your own people......
I personally do not, and have never worn one in my life. That doesn't change the fact that there are millions of Muslim women who do, and in the interest of a free society, I support their right to do so. Unlike you, I don't believe it's the government's job to tell women how to dress.
PS...you clearly don't know what you're talking about. The French have made it clear that they are banning the burqa for cultural reasons, because it is "not consistent with French values."
But I'm not surprised to be seeing bigots defending the actions of other bigots.
thanks for information re French values...
re to be bigots or not.......muslims have all reasons to curb rights of other communities in their own states....but they oppose the same where they are in minority and talk of democratic values....
on some other discussions i am informed that burqa is just an arab tradition...has nothing to do with islam....why muslim community is so agitated.....again to be bigots or not to be....
then why majority of muslims are condsidering this new wave in european countries as anti-islam, against muslims etc...pls go thru the rest of replies by your own people......
To put it another way - wearing a bindi is not a religious requirement for Hindu women (as far as I know). Yet, if France were to ban bindis outright, claiming that they were against French values, I'm fairly certain that you and other Hindus would (rightly) see this as an attempt to target Hindu immigrants, and would complain accordingly.
re to be bigots or not.......muslims have all reasons to curb rights of other communities in their own states....but they oppose the same where they are in minority and talk of democratic values....
I don't agree with Islamic states curbing the rights of minorities either. However, at least those Islamic states are being internally consistent, and openly proclaim the fact that they are Islamist theocracies. France and friends want to continue to proclaim themselves secular democracies while openly curtailing religious freedoms.
One thing you and others should not forget and one thing you shopuld always rmember is that *EUROPE CAME TO THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES FIRST. *
This is why I, A Pakistani, is born and bred here in the UK!
Well, then stop GOING to Europe. European reaction is anti-Islam. But extremist lunatics and their propensity to kill anyone disagreeing with them is the major cause of this Western anti-Islam attitude.
By the way, when I read the topic "Why is Burqa being banned...", I thought it is burqaposhx being banned there. haha
every country has right of protecting their country and country men ,cowards may come in most unsuspectible garbs of women and blast the innocent in the name of woman's rights . europians have better record of human rights than middle east and south asian countries , voting rights have been violated many times in pakistan also , monarchs and dictaters dont have word " human rights" in their dictionary.
HAVE YOU EVER READ THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THESE SO-CALLED LIBERAL FREE PERFECT DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES AND THESE BAD MIDDLE EASTERN AND SOUTH ASIAN COUNTRIES?
Did nt you ever read how the Americans and Miliband were involved in the negotiations between Benazir and Musharaf? Why were these outsiders propping up a leader of a political party like that?
Do you know who these south asian and middle eastern countries buy their weapons from? I wonder how many of them are peace loving free liberal democracies?
The common man in the west only hates Islam because of ignorance, a lot of them agree with Islamic values when explained to them...
After the collapse of Christianity there is a great spiritual void in the West, you are scaring potential Muslims away with your aggressive "us vs. them" attitude..
That spiritual void is being filled with materialism and secularism.
The common man hates Islam because he is taught to do so by the media. No matter how muslims behave they will never be accepted. Muslims with true islamic values of peace, tolerance, love will never be shown in the media.
I’m not denying that vast majority of the west/europeans are friendly, warm hearted and inviting people. But, it doesn’t mean we Muslims soften up and be taken advantage of. We clearly see today how some of us have been taken advantage of. You will see Muslims on the other side of the debate banning niqab. Is that what Muslim stands for now? If you ask me, the west has succeeded in taking advantage of us. The agenda is clear from a Muslim standpoint, all the Muslim lands are being invaded, Musilms slaughtered left and right, more chaos caused by outside forces in Muslim lands and more hate institutions are propping up, their only agenda is to cause disunity amongst the young Muslims today and to take advantage of weak imaan most of us have today. Remember, it only takes one or two incidents and some patriotism to change the minds of your friendly neighbors and best friends. They are friends today but tomorrow they’ll hunt you down. It’s more scary for those Muslims living in west where gun laws are soft, where every other yankee has a gun. To add more fuel to the fire, just add the current economic events, poverty, unemployment… and you have yourself a party.
So don’t be fooled, today it’s the niqab, tomorrow the hijab(already done in France/Turkey/Spain..) and then what? They’ll come after our beards? Our masjids (already happens in Iran)! Come on brothers don’t be fooled, they’ve arrested our brothers and sisters who stood up for their rights, they’ve been labeled terroristsand are being held in unimaginable conditions without any evidence and/or trial!
Just think of Bosnia, Gujraat, Kashmir, Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Chechnya.. all these lands, people thought their neighbours were so friendly and inviting but what happened? Their mothers were raped infront of their eyes and slaughtered, their fathers were tortured and slaughtered, their daughters were raped, …
It’s not to be taken lightly. Let’s work on our imaan!
I'm still scatching my head when it comes to what exactly these "anxieties about muslims" are. Are Muslims imposing their clothing on European non-muslims? Their lifestyle? Are they dragging people to the mosque? Are they being insubordinate to public authorities?
I'm sorry, I'm so lost!!
Europe's Fashon and advertisement Industry is scared of the burqa.......
because it impacts the whole Industry big time...........
it influences attitudes.....
What took them years to uncover...............
The Female form.....and sell all kinds of products...
The Burqa goes against all that!
They simply don't want any Muslims in Europe. Muslims are not threatening their culture or way or life. But they just don't want Muslims there. It would be politically incorrect to deport all Muslim people when they are living peacefully and not causing any trouble. So Europeans are coming up with other ways, like banning burqa, to incite them, in the hope that Muslims themselves will either leave Europe or leave Islam.
Wouldn't it be easier to just clamp down on the hijab if that was the case?
Yes. Hijab is also banned in some countries, and some are considering to ban it.
The MWL and MPAC Strongly Oppose French Ban on Religious Expression
Norway: Debate on headscarf in school continues
Madrid: President supports school’s choice to ban headscarf
UK should ban hijab in schools, burka
To put it another way - wearing a bindi is not a religious requirement for Hindu women (as far as I know). Yet, if France were to ban bindis outright, claiming that they were against French values, I'm fairly certain that you and other Hindus would (rightly) see this as an attempt to target Hindu immigrants, and would complain accordingly. .
I do not understand why you are deliberately pushing hindu customs in the debate...
bindi is a very small issue.....what about sati system..totally banished by law..
and dowry system...a bad hindu tradition for ages.....today this custom is prosecuted by law for proposing dowry or demanding dowry...
as per your concept for muslim women.....shall we let a hindu lady die as sati if shw wants to do it volantrily...
or let dowry system continue if the bride herself wants it....
as per your notions.... one should not be compelled to study if he does not want it....or if his traditions or religion oppose it....
the debate should be for or against the freedom of women....but you and your like-minded people easily convert such debates into.....islam vs europe.....
Re: Why is the burqa being banned in Europe?
what about sati system..totally banished by law..
The idea of comparing the practice of drugging women and throwing them into their husbands funeral pyres to burn to death, and what is ultimately a fashion choice, is so utterly ludicrous it doesn't even deserve to be dignified with a response.
and dowry system...a bad hindu tradition for ages.....today this custom is prosecuted by law for proposing dowry or demanding dowry...
First of all, there are no laws that I know of banning dowry in the Western world, because frankly I see no point in legislating personal choices people make in regards to wedding gift-giving. People who threaten or abuse women for not bringing sufficient dowry should be duly prosecuted. As far as the Indian law is concerned, that arose out of a particular situation unique to that country. The practice of demanding dowry had become so malignant that women were being killed left and right over dowry disputes. In the 1980's & 90's, in city of Delhi alone, 2 women were killed every day (usually burned to death) by their in-laws over dowry. In that context, I can understand the need to enact legislation to clamp down on it entirely.
The burqa, on the other hand, affects only a few thousand Muslim women in Europe. In France, it has been noted that many, if not most, of burqa-wearers are native French women who converted to Islam, so we know family pressure wasn't even an issue. This is not some societal epidemic, leading to crimes against women. It's a matter of being allowed to chose how one dresses.
or let dowry system continue if the bride herself wants it....
That's how it works in the Western world.
as per your notions.... one should not be compelled to study if he does not want it....or if his traditions or religion oppose it....
There should be debate over these issues, but it should come from within the Muslim community. Frankly, these issues are actively studied and debated among Muslims - the fact that you aren't aware of it doesn't mean that it does not happen.
The idea that an allegedly secular & democratic government is going to step into my closet and tell me how best to practice my religion is absurd.
but you and your like-minded people easily convert such debates into.....islam vs europe....
When the proponents of these bans themselves are essentially declaring them an act of cultural warfare, its hard not to see it in the perspective of Europe vs Muslim immigrants.
The idea that an allegedly secular & democratic government is going to step into my closet and tell me how best to practice my religion is absurd. .
you first be sure if you are discussing islam or an arab tradition that curbs the freedom of women*???*
very easily you curb rights of minorities in your countries on behalf of theocracy and expect the minorities to behave as you wish.....at the same time you are not ready to respect and follow the laws of a normal state...and teach us how a democracy should work...
even if a religion curbs the rights of women...it should be opposed...
talibans did the same against women...opposed even schooling (for all)...for them the only knowledge is knowledge of quran....
you must decide on which side you are.....to remain talibanic or to opt for progress.....explanations are just hyppocracy....
I'm sorry, all of this just wreaks of first world hypocrisy. First, we colonize you. Use your resources to fund our wars (Iranian oil, first world war; manpower from the Indian colonies etc.), use your resources for the agg*****zement of our empires, impose our language, values and norms on you. For a period of 300 years.
Then, if you dare get back to our societies, we'll start picking on you.
USA is miles ahead in this regards. We all know what happened here, yet they've remained more or less a functional society with no psychotic legislation taking place. I'm so glad not to be in Europe.
Bittu is having a very hard time understanding that this issue is not being framed in the context of civil or women rights. If even so were the case, a ban on an item specific to a minority runs contrary to ANY notions of civil rights. I'm totally opposed to the burqa, but I'm also opposed to the state acting as fashion police.
you must decide on which side you are.....to remain talibanic or to opt for progress.....explanations are just hyppocracy....
Ironically, in attempting to force women to dress as you see fit, you're the one who is behaving like the Taleban. I can understand why - coming from another pathetic excuse for a democracy like India, you simply aren't familiar with the basis of Western civil liberties. Those of us who actually are fully comprehend the absurdity of the govenment stepping in and legislating what women can and cannot wear.
Re: Why is the burqa being banned in Europe?
The dominant culture decides what is "in" and what is "out".
Orthodox Muslims and tribal traditions in the Muslim countries have practically stopped innovation and development in their own countries.
And now they are heading to the West, spreading the same orthodoxy. This is not unlike the black plague that gripped Europe not too long ago.
Before the black plague spread by rats, Europeans suffered under the yoke of religious plague spread by pope-ism.
So they know from their painful past, as to not succumb to the orthodoxy just because it is spread in the name of Jesus pbuh, God Almightly, or more recently Allah swt.
it is time Muslims understand the European side before launching tirades against them, and declaring them anti-Islam.