Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

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Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of the working class and other oppressed groups?

“Most of us feel that the feminist rebellion has crossed all barriers of class, race and imperialism, because women everywhere are victims of sexism and male dominance. We, therefore, feel that there is a realistic base for international solidarity among women, or for global sisterhood. On the other hand, we cannot close our eyes to the stark fact that women of all classes in the West, and middle-class women in the Third World, are also among those whose standard of living is based on the ongoing exploitation of poor women and men in the underdeveloped regions and classes.”
Maria Mies
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mmchap1.htm

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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

Because most people have a misconception that feminism means the extremes most of the time. You see it here even when any woman acts any way anyone doesn't agree with (ie walking topless on a beach - not feminism. The ability to walk unmolested topless on a beach is the result of feminism). It's a hard concept for some reason.

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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

No because it is based on racist premise. One gender is better another. Just like facism, nazism, feminism is another bane of society.

^^^ Precious_Khan ^^^
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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

^ Most feminists argue that women are equal in their working capability as men. Not that they're better. There are extremists in every movement, but you can't characterize a movement by its extremists. I would expect that Muslims should have learnt this lesson by now.

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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

^^ exactly, but more than working, they are equal, not better, equal.

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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

Every group has extremists, completely agree. But the issue with the underlying feminism is gender superiority. I mean just look at the posts by women here. There is always the statement that women can endure pregnancy but men can not thus they are weaker. Or that women are much better as managers and the like, as they manage the household, take care of the kids and still have time for a part time job or something of that like.

The statements made subconciously denote women not as equals but better. The reasons given for stating women are equal are not that men and women have the same brain capacity. No it is the fact that women can multitask better compared to men and the like. The notion of equality does not exist in feminism as it is based on comparing to genders on social constructs and concepts.

Thus it is very much an issue of better or worse.

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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

This thread was not initiated to discuss feminism, but instead its use as a weapon by minorities all over the globe. Whether you are in the West or East, it is very common to stumble upon minorities that make some use of feminism to prove that they are oppressed.

Like Muslims in Europe demanded rights for their women to wear scarf, similarly many minorities in Muslim countries don't want their women to follow Islamic traditions thus they call themselves oppressed. There are many other cases. But again the thread is not about such issues but why people make use of feminism to prove their point?

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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

Why should feminism not be brought in as criticism to current regimes? Females make up half your population. If people are arguing for their rights, then I don't see why they shouldn't?

No one is using feminism to prove a point. Feminism is the point.

Kamran Khan and I talk.
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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

Yes, feminism is a separate issue, but many people think it is mixed at places to break the unity of working class ands oppressed groups. People from these groups get divided on feminism and thus forget the real issues.

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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

^ I don't understand your position on this. What other real issues? How is feminism being misused to break the unity of working class and oppressed groups?

An example will be nice.

Main Tera Zikar KarOn tO Hawaien Raqs Kartii hAin
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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

Consider this:

Working class is united on issues like they don't have proper housing and they are not paid well, then some one inject issues like feminism and they start discussing these issues and thus divide themselves. Each individual have specific opinion on these issues and many people may have contradictory opinions.

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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

Yes, but feminism is not an issue that is limited to the working class. So you can have working class issues on one side, and then feminist issues on the other side.

In the first, the working class members are united. In the second, females are united.

There is no clash between the two. And women's rights, especially in Pakistan, can't be ignored.

Furthermore, if anything, paying attention to women's rights leads to better households, and better marriages. Which means workers that can actually get their work done with less stress.

Tall or short partner
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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

Well you are right these are two separate and as important issues but it is very common to mix these ideas. Every issue needs to be sorted out and usually there are more important issues to solve than the ones focused on.

A recent example is Mukhtaran Mai. People have just forgotten that they don't have proper homes to live and they are not paid well too even in many cases they are not paid to have enough food for a single person. It looks like in Pakistan every thing is fine, just Mukhtaran Mai has faced some trouble. People in working class have different opinions about Mukhtaran Mai, and instead of sorting out their problems, they waste their time in discussing Mukhtaran Mai. Now this is stupid and this is my point. Any way I guess she is not the only one who has faced troubles, there definitely will be a lot others, but she is the one to attract media.

Governments and politicians all over the World make heavy use of some issues, sometimes, to hide the other crucial ones. For any developing country like Pakistan, real issues are Hunger, Education and Health.

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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

A recent example is Mukhtaran Mai. People have just forgotten that they don't have proper homes to live and they are not paid well too even in many cases they are not paid to have enough food for a single person. It looks like in Pakistan every thing is fine, just Mukhtaran Mai has faced some trouble. People in working class have different opinions about Mukhtaran Mai, and instead of sorting out their problems, they waste their time in discussing Mukhtaran Mai. Now this is stupid and this is my point. Any way I guess she is not the only one who has faced troubles, there definitely will be a lot others, but she is the one to attract media.

Discussing Mukhtaran Mai is not a waste of time. Its what she symbolizes that is important, in addition to the injustice she experienced. If we talk about it, and more people get involved, and there is international pressure, solutions might happen.

She has been talked about and guess what? With the money she got "talking", she has been able to open 2 schools in her village. That's massive improvement. She will take charge of her own village so that such things wont happen again there.

There are other problems too, yes. Your approach is wrong though. We SHOULD make a big deal about Mukhtaran Mai. It will give people courage to make a big deal about other issues.

Imagine if some incident happened with some poor fisherman, and the fishing community made a big deal out of that and got international focus?

If someone has done zulm to you, then the best thing you can do in this day and age is to speak up about it, gather as many powerful allies as you can, and then put pressure on the people that are conducting this zulm.

Its better than running around and getting revenge by killing and raping people.

So, Im sorry umer Ashraf, I think you have missed the point about Mukhtaran Mai. And it saddens me that you are dismissing her case so easily as unimportant.

And it even further saddens me that you think her case is taking off focus from other problems. If anything, its bringing to light the other problems.

I'm sure if Mukhtaran was your sister, you would not say such things. Any pakistani woman out there is like your sister. Any muslim girl out there is like your sister. If that person gets hurt, its like your own flesh and blood getting hurt.

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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

Ohh, i am not saying that Mukhtaran Mai has not faced something terrible; I do think that she must be made a national symbol and must be provided everything she wants. I did say that every issue is as important. It's the use of one issue to hide others that is wrong and must be discouraged.

This point is never intended to be against feminism, but instead its use to hide other issues. Yu might have heard of 100s of people in Sindh some weeks back that died just cause they drunken poisonous water, it was just 2-3 days in news and no one took it seriously. No proper action was taken by the Government to prevent this in future. Incidents like this one are as common too and they cause real harm. Now if I was one of these people to have died, then my sis will have lost her brother forever.

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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

PCG - Ahhh - now I see where the you got the dismissal of M. Mai

Umer shaking head, tsking

Back to this idea you have of feminism being pulled out of a hat when other issues are brought to the front.

When you have an opressed society, there is usually a hierarchy within. The women are always the last on the ladder. I cannot think of one example otherwise. So, when people begin to protest, remember half of those people will always be women and naturally feminism will be brought into it.

Feminism is simply the right of women to live in a society freely and with the same rights as men. The right to work for the same amount of money for doing the same job, the right to walk down a street unmolested, the right to be able to have an equal say in a court of law and to be taken seriously.

Feminism is not meant to be an inequality between men and women where the scale is tipped in the favor of the women, it is meant to be the balance.

When a whole half of society (or more since 51% is the number of women vs men according to your numbers in another thread) is denied their rights, they will protest and be heard louder than any other protest. Therefore it is smart for any other cause to take up that cry.

Anyway.....

You haven't proven at all how other causes cry feminism, especially that housing one??? How does that tie in?

RE: Who is the one guppy / guppan....
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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

Oh bhai, duniya bohat bhari hai. Feminism ko vaisi bhi koi ziada ahmiyat nahi dehta hai.

So if you have a few feminists screaming and yelling about something, then how can you say this detracts attention from other problems?

What are pakistanis doing anyway for any problems as a matter of fact? I think I'm going to put up a review about the debate I saw today on Capital Talk. Dammit it though, I didn't note the ladies names. Oh well, look for it by the end of the week.

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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

I heard not so long ago a theory: ‘women oppression was historically used as a way to give power to lower-class men over at least someone(ie his wife) so that he could stand better the opression from the upper-class’. So within that theory’s frame feminism could be seen as a threat to the unity of the working-class, as men would have no power over anyone left after their ladies are free. This could lead to greater social instability.
well that’s just a touhgt.

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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

Well,
People and private organizations (like Edhi andmany others), who don’t need issues like Mukhtaran Mai or KalaBagh Dam to be a part of media for some time to get funding and be in focus, are always putting their best in whatever they are dealing in. Now what happened to Mukhtaran Mai was worst and such incidents must not happen again. But some people are using this issue to pressurize our Government which is trying to sort out other problems.

I was talking about the use of feminism to hide other issues. It is very common practice and this time I will just talk about information from sources:

As for Feminism in general

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Re: Why is feminism seen as a threat to the unity of working class & oppressed groups

But Umer, don't you understand that these issues fall under the flag of feminism, especially the sex crimes. That is what women fight for.