Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of much smaller country called Iraq?
Was it Saddam’s superior power or it was that Ayatullahs somehow lacked manliness?
Re: Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of Saddam
Iraq was in US laps while Russia was getting spanked in Afghanistan badly.
Re: Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of Saddam
Iran's current military sucks.
their air force is obselete...
their naval forces is obselete and is a brown water navy...
their land forces are so infantry heavy, the remind me of the russian army of 1914....
Iran's military is woefully obselete....
they can be taken out in less than 2 weeks
Re: Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of Saddam
^ read the title and re-write your reply :CareBear:
Re: Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of Saddam
[quote=Captain1]
^ read the title and re-write your reply :CareBear:/quote
no need... what i have written can be applied to the 1980's iraq-iran war
they used kids to go over minefields to clear them
thats says it all
Re: Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of Saddam
Actually, the most effective Iranian tactic was human wave assaults. They outnumbered Iraq three to one in most battles, but they had terrible leadership and no maneuvaerability. The only real military contribution the US ever made to Saddam was to give him satellite recon. In one case it showed the Iranians infiltrating the marshes outside of Basra. Saddam dropped a major electrical line into the swamps and electrified thousands of Iranian troops.
The Iranian military is indeed obsolete, and it's leadership has not improved much in 30 years. They are basically still cannon fodder despite a few Soviet era missles...
And, despite it's oil resources, Iran still depends on 40 percent of it's domestic refining capability from other gulf nations. If Israel were to hit one or all nine of the Iranian domestic oil refineries, Iran would essentially be back in the stone age. It's economy would crash.
Re: Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of Saddam
The Iranian military is indeed obsolete, and it's leadership has not improved much in 30 years. They are basically still cannon fodder despite a few Soviet era missles...
And, despite it's oil resources, Iran still depends on 40 percent of it's domestic refining capability from other gulf nations. If Israel were to hit one or all nine of the Iranian domestic oil refineries, Iran would essentially be back in the stone age. It's economy would crash.
yup
Re: Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of Saddam
[quote=Captain1] ^ read the title and re-write your reply :CareBear:
no need... what i have written can be applied to the 1980's iraq-iran war
they used kids to go over minefields to clear them
thats says it all
[/quote]
not really, you said in previous post that Iran would be dead in two weeks time, but they lasted for not 2 months not 2 years.... how many?
Re: Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of Saddam
[quote=mercenary2k] not really, you said in previous post that Iran would be dead in two weeks time, but they lasted for not 2 months not 2 years.... how many?
Iran was fighting Iraq and not USA...
[/quote]
fighting agaisnt USA is a completely differnet matter...
their defense budget is 500 billion...
Their ground forces maybe tied down in Iraq, but their Air and Naval assets is untapped.
They have over 4,000 Fighters and 600 Naval Vessels....
US navy is powerful enough to sink the entire's world navy
you mean to tell me that Iran's flying boat is a match for their Nimitz class carriers?
Re: Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of Saddam
He actually meant 2 weeks, sort of like how the chimp in Washington declared victory in Iraq after 2 weeks of the war. 
Re: Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of Saddam
No the war in Iran will not be a war of conquest but much like what happened in kosovo 1999…
Re: Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of Saddam
their defense budget is 500 billion...
Their ground forces maybe tied down in Iraq, but their Air and Naval assets is untapped.
They have over 4,000 Fighters and 600 Naval Vessels....
US navy is powerful enough to sink the entire's world navy
you mean to tell me that Iran's flying boat is a match for their Nimitz class carriers?
how did the words: "Iran was fighting Iraq and not USA..." in post#9 got used as being my words.... mercenary2k, seems like you are struggling with use of "Quote" function here. Simply press the "Quote" and type your response outside of " quote] ..... / quote]" so you don't end up putting words into someone's mouth like you just did with mine.
Re: Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of Saddam
Iran's problem was that it purged its military command for suspected anti-Revolutionary loyalties.
Saddam had the same advantage that Hitler had in 1941 - he attacked a country that had decapitated its military leadership. Iran's Army, Navy, and Air Force were led by newly promoted Revolutionary officers who had little idea of how to run large military organizations.
Iran only avoided defeat by releasing the surviving military commanders and reinstating them to their former commands.
Re: Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of Saddam
Iraq could have been in US lap. However Iraq never got any help in the air. The only thing Iraq and Iran could muster in the air were their Shahabi kabooters (birds) like missiles.
Both Iraqi and Irani air forces sucked badly. So the Iranian military was able to hold on for its dear life.
Even after Saddam got pummeled to dust in Shatt Alarab, faced off repeated Iranian assaults on Basra.
Now the air cover for Iranians is not the shining example for the world either. And in modern wars, loss of air cover means serious spanking.
Re: Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of Saddam
^ Iraqi airforce was pretty wellequipped and could replace losses with soviet planes and arab dollars.
Re: Why Iran suffered humiliation at the hands of Saddam
1) Iraq invaded iran, hence Iran was fighting in defence. Theres nowt humilating about defending your country.
2) Iran was vulnerable at the time, the new revoltuion had just come about, hence saddam thought he would easily gain the upper hand.
3) Saddam had arms support from the soviet the french and arab nations. Iran was initally isolated.
4) Despite iraq having a superior armed force, Iran put up a pretty strong resistance. One advantage they had was the iranian ariforce was superior and they had thousands of untrained volunteers willing to fight..
5) It wasnt long before saddam (the same year he invaded actually) was asking for a settlement pact when the iraqi troops lost thier initiative, which iran rejected.
6)by 84, saddam was desperate for negotiations..hed obviously bit off more than he cud chew. He eventually sought out 'superpower' intervention.
[quote]
Beginning in 1984, Baghdad's military goal changed from controlling Iranian territory to denying Tehran any major gain inside Iraq. Furthermore, Iraq tried to force Iran to the negotiating table by various means. First, President Saddam Hussein sought to increase the war's manpower and economic cost to Iran. For this purpose, Iraq purchased new weapons, mainly from the Soviet Union and France. Iraq also completed the construction of what came to be known as "killing zones" (which consisted primarily of artificially flooded areas near Basra) to stop Iranian units. In addition, according to Jane's Defence Weekly and other sources, Baghdad used chemical weapons against Iranian troop concentrations and launched attacks on many economic centers. Despite Iraqi determination to halt further Iranian progress, Iranian units in March 1984 captured parts of the Majnun Islands, whose oil fields had economic as well as strategic value.
Second, Iraq turned to diplomatic and political means. In April 1984, Saddam Hussein proposed to meet Khomeini personally in a neutral location to discuss peace negotiations. But Tehran rejected this offer and restated its refusal to negotiate with President Hussein.
Third, Iraq sought to involve the superpowers as a means of ending the war. .
[/quote]
so all in all isolated and vulnerable, iran still gave as good as it got. And altho saddam may have won by a superior army and western support, it wasnt as easy as he thought it wud be. The only person desperate to end the war was saddam, and hence historically for iran, this was anything but a 'humiliating' defeat.