PA
We know that Imam Bukhari existed, due his works on the Sahih. In addition you have put a 1200 year time span on his existence!
Fair enough.
Being a layperson for the time being, can you please give me a time span on the revelation of the Qur'aan.
When was it revealed and how long did the revelation take to complete?
Prove to me that the Qur'aan was not revealed 100 years ago?
I require authentic proof without a human chain link connection.
Please refrain from using A'Hadeeth.
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well said
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I was going to say the same, had I not seen your reply.
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[quote]
by Ahmadjee:
There is no God by Allah, and Muhammad is his Prophet
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[quote]
that’s true, but so are 123999 other prophets! So all other prophets are part of Islam as well: and we are not allowed to reject even one of them!
And accepting those prophets is part of Islam too!!!
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Well I think that by accepting Hadith, one is doing injustice to the word of the greatest man ever lived: because I dare say that 80% of all Hadith are made up by people, furthermore perhaps even more Hadith are contradictory to each other and to the Quran! I am not criticizing the object of Hadith (=the Holy Prophet), but the person who wrote that down! That they (=the Hadith-writers) could have made mistakes, and we should be careful before we accept a Hadith.
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I don’t reject Hadith! All I want to say is that Hadith (even the most authentic ones) are merely a human work! And not a devine revelation as the Quran is: So be careful, before accepting a Hadith!
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I didn’t say that! What I meant was that there isn’t any contradiction between the life of the Holy Prophet and the Quran.
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That is exactly my point! But what I also say is that in order to find out what a good character is and what moral standards are, the Quran is sufficient, not the Hadith!
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But what I also say is that in order to find out what a good character is and what moral standards are, the Quran is sufficient, not the Hadith!
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Ibrahim says: salaams to all
Dear brother,
I think you may know best as to what is good for you, at the same time I strongly believe Allah (swt) knows best ( which No Muslim will disagree upon)
Thus when we read
3: 26 Say: "O Allah! Lord of Power (and Rule) ** thou givest Power to whom Thou pleasest and Thou strippest off power from whom Thou pleasest thou enduest with honor whom thou pleasest and thou bringest low whom Thou pleasest;** in Thy hand is all Good. Verily over all things thou hast power.
Ibrahim says: The Prophet (pbuh) was surely chosen by Allah (swt)
Then we read...........
2:151 A similar (favor have ye already received) in that ** We have sent among you an Apostle of your own rehearsing to you Our signs and sanctifying you and instructing you in Scripture and wisdom and in new Knowledge.**
Ibrahim says : an Apostle of your own? , Instructing us?? Where are those instructions? I searched and they seem to be called hadiths, hence wise people who want to review those instructions will be led to read the hadiths.
The Qur’an does not contain personal statements from the Prophet.
Then we read....
2: 186 ** When my servants ask thee concerning Me** I am indeed close (to them); I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me; let them also with a will listen to My call and believe in Me; that they may walk in the right way.
Ibrahim says: indeed we only believe in Allah (swt) and when we want to know what did the servants ask about Allah (swt) from the Prophet, we may know them mostly form the hadiths
Then we read…………
4: 80 ** He who obeys the Apostle obeys Allah:** but if any turn away We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds).
Ibrahim says: hence obeying the prophets words was obeying Allah (swt) !
Then we read……….
4:101 ** When thou (O Apostle) art with them and standest to lead them in prayer let one party of them stand up (in prayer) with thee taking their arms with them: ** when they finish their prostrations let them take their positions in the rear and ** let the other party come up which hath not yet prayed and let them pray with thee taking all precautions and bearing arms:** the unbelievers wish if ye were negligent of your arms and your baggage to assault you in a single rush but there is no blame on you if ye put away your arms because of the inconvenience of rain or because ye are ill; but take (every) precaution for yourselves. For the unbelievers Allah hath prepared a humiliating punishment.
Ibrahim says : when we want to know how the prophet led Muslims in prayer in congreagation, we find it in the hadiths
Then we read………
9:24 Say: If it be that your fathers your sons your brothers your mates or your kindred; the wealth that ye have gained; the commerce in which ye fear a decline; or the dwellings in which ye delight are dearer to you than Allah ** or His apostle or the striving in his cause; ** then wait until Allah brings about His decision: and Allah guides not the rebellious.
Ibrahim says: when we want to know, how the Prophet strived in Allah’s cause , we have to look for the hadiths.
Then we read………..
9: 71 ** The believers men and women are protectors one of another: ** they enjoin what is just and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers practice regular charity ** and obey Allah and His apostle.** On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power Wise.
Ibrahim says : and when we want to know what the Prophet said and how the first Muslims obeyed him, we are led to the hadiths.
Then we read…..
2: 285 ** The Apostle believeth** in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord ** as do the men of faith.** Each one (of them) believeth in Allah His angels His books and His Apostles "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His Apostles." ** And they say: "We hear and we obey; ** (We seek) Thy forgiveness Our Lord and to Thee is the end of all journeys."
Ibrahim says: When we want details on the Prophets faith in Allah (swt), we need to consult those that where with him and those records are called hadiths.
Then we read………..
52 ** It is such as obey Allah and His Apostle** and fear Allah and do right that will win (in the end).
Ibrahim says : Muslims want to win in life, so they need to learn about how the Prophet structured his way of life and those details are only available in the hadiths.
Then we read………….
24: 54 Say: "Obey Allah and obey the Apostle: but if ye turn away he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. ** If ye obey him ye shall be on right guidance. ** The Apostle's duty is only to preach the clear (Message)."
56 So establish regular Prayer and give regular Charity: ** and obey the Apostle;** that ye may receive mercy.
Ibrahim says: Indeed Allah (swt) had picked for us the right person to follow and we may learn more about him from the hadiths.
Then we read………….
48: 29 ** Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers (but) compassionate amongst each other. ** Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer) seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Torah; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade then makes it strong; it then becomes thick and it stands on its own stem (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result it fills the Unbelievers with rage at him. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds Forgiveness and a great Reward.
Ibrahim says: And who are those that where with him? Indeed we have no option but to look for the hadiths.
Then we read……………
66:3 ** When the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to one of his consorts and she then divulged it (to another) and Allah made it known to him ** he confirmed part thereof and repudiated a part. Then when he told her thereof she said "Who told thee this?" ** He said "He told me who knows and is well-acquainted (with all things).**
Ibrahim says what was this matter about? What did Allah (swt) revealed that is not mentioned in the Qur’an? To find out we need to refer to the hadiths.
Thus without the hadiths and the wealth of information about Islam, Muslim will end up as hindus ( nauzubillah) in their desire to understand Islam
In fact the spread of Islam is due to people conveying what they saw or heard (hadiths) to others .
At the same time one must be forewarned that they are fabricated and weak hadiths introduced by the opposition to deceive the Muslims and one should be careful as to know, when a hadith contradicts the Qur’an.
Hope that helps understand why hadiths are the secondary source of info in Islam
Was salaam
Ibrahim
** we came alone, we leave alone; the purpose of this life is to discover the cause behind it and submit without question. **
salaam all!
I think that there is a mis-understanding going on here! it has to do with the following: nowadays people think of Hadith and Sunna as synonyms! (see the title of ahmadjee’s post recently). But for me Hadith and Sunna are two completely different things:
Sunna means “custom” “behaviour” “law” and in this context refers to the customary behaviours of the Holy Prophet. I don’t reject these, because there is no contra-diction between the Sunna and the Quran and if I reject the Sunna, I’ll be rejecting the Quran! furthermore all the verses quoted by Ibrahim refer to Sunna, and as I said I don’t reject Sunna.
With Hadith the story is completely different: Hadith means “report” “news” and it refers to the reporting of the sunna by people. And since this reporting is done by humans, it is subject to mistakes as are all things done by humans!!! Therefor I say be careful if u use Hadith in order to find Sunna!
Concludingly I can say that I don’t reject Sunna, because I would be rejecting the Quran; All I say is that one must be careful with Hadith!!! you cannot say that Hadith is equal to Sunna (as is often done nowadays). Therefor to find out what Sunna is I prefer the Quran, because there isn’t any contradiciotn between those two; And I don’t use Hadith to find out what Sunna is because there are a lot of contradictions between those two!!!
that’s why my thread is called: “why I chose not to follow Hadith that strictly”; I on purpose didn’t mention Sunna
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This message was sponsored by the “Guppie of the Year”-Award Committee
for those intersted, the book I quoted is also available on-line:
http://www.submission.org/HADITH2.HTM
This message was sponsored by the “Guppie of the Year”-Award Committee