First of all, why does Iran (a Shia country) support the Palestinians who are radidly anti-Shia? The PLO killed thousands of Lebanese Shia when they infiltrated into South Lebanon. In fact the Lebanese Shia greeted the Israelis as liberators when they killed the Palestianian animals who were killing their Shia women and children. It was only when Israel decided to occupy Lebanon, the Shia (along with Hizbollah) started their war against Israel.
The Palestinians have also supported Saddam on numerous occasions. Saddam was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Shias.
I hear the arguments from Shias that al-Aqsa is the reason why the Shias (Iran), as Muslims, must go against Israel. But then what about Saudi Arabia where the graves of the Shia historical figures like Fatima, Hassan, Abu Talib, and others were destroyed? The Israelis have not destroyed al-Aqsa.
Another argument is the “unity” argument. We should be united with our “Arab Sunni brothers.” LOL, biggest BS I ever heard. Some unity. Is Iran really that naive to think that Sunni Arabs like Iran for its support of the Palestinians? Arabs will always hate Iran for 2 reasons: Iran is Persian and it’s Shia.
So tell me my Iranian supporters and my Shia posters, why does Iran support the Palestinians?
If Iranians or shias went around with that mentality, it wudnae have got them too far. They'd have been isolated in there own lil land of persia. IMO Iran is going the right way about it. At present, there are quite a few palistinians studying for free or at subsidised cost at iranian univeristies/ colleges. So in the long term, its positive things like these that are likely to remove the hate barrier, as opposed to being hell bent on revenge, for something that happened so long ago.
Also, apart from that, it is also a matter of morality and justice. If palistinians were killing lebanese back then, it does not in anyway justify the treatment they are recieving today. That is just nonsensical. It doesnt really go.
Thank you for replying, Missus Mooli. I hope you are not the only Shia/Iranian supporter on this forum because I would like to hear some more opinions. I should have also asked another question in relation to this one: Why doesn't Iran ally itself with Israel? Egypt has. Jordan has. Why not Iran? Allying yourself with the power in the region is very good strategically.
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If Iranians or shias went around with that mentality, it wudnae have got them too far.
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Really? Why do you say that? Is it because Sunnis have stopped bombing Shias in their mosques? Is it because Sunnis live in peace with Shias in Iraq? Oh wait that doesn't happen. In fact the opposite happens. Sunnis still hate Shias no matter what the stance of Shias is. But why don't you enlighten me, Ma Mooli? How far have Iranians or the Shia gotten in the middle east? Cite me examples where they have succeeded politically, economically and socially as a result of their support of the Palestinians. Do they have full rights in countries like Saudi, Bahrain, Qatar, or Kuwait where they are ruled by Sunni despots?
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They'd have been isolated in there own lil land of persia. IMO Iran is going the right way about it.
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When the Shah was in power, Iran was allied with Israel. That was a good mentality. (I concede that the Shah was a brutal dictator, much like Saddam, but on Israel he was right). They were not isolated with the Shah.
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At present, there are quite a few palistinians studying for free or at subsidised cost at iranian univeristies/ colleges. So in the long term, its positive things like these that are likely to remove the hate barrier
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That's good. I hope it does remove some barriers, though I doubt it will be of much help.
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as opposed to being hell bent on revenge, for something that happened so long ago.
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The "something happened long ago" argument is very weak. American support of the Shah happened a long time ago. Why haven't the "Marg ber Amrika" chants stopped? Where were the "Marg ber Phalistine" chants for killing Lebanese Shia?
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Also, apart from that, it is also a matter of morality and justice.
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There are morality and justice issues in other parts of the world. Like the Saudi Shias. Where are Iran's concern about them? In fact I read on another forum, a Shia forum, that Iranian news labels Palestinian suicide animals as "martyrs" but when Iraqi Shia children are killed, they are not classified as "martyrs" at all. The person posting that was quite upset about that. Does Iran REALLY support Shia causes in the region? Or is it just hellbent on "unity" and it's own interests?
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If palistinians were killing lebanese back then, it does not in anyway justify the treatment they are recieving today.
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No it does not. I never said that. The Palestinians deserve such treatment for their support of terrorism.
the fighting that happens is sectarian based and is as a result of the division of muslim lands.
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Right. But it is also culturally based as well. Arabs look down on Persians and Muslims from South Asia. Remember Iran-Iraq war in the 80s?
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if there are people who hate shia and sunni and vice versa they need there heads examined.
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What do you mean by "if"? Do you read the news that comes out of the Islamic world? There are many people who unjustifiably hate Shia in the Middle east, simply for being Shia. Not only that, but these people have the major political power, they are the rulers of the Middle East and their influence is strong.
I dont know if we have any iranians on this board, but there a quite a few shias around i think.
Anyways, Israel and Iran have been sworn enemies ever since the the '79 revolution when it supported shah against his ppl, just like America did. But IMO, '79 was a long time ago, and most likely Iran would’ve beenprepared to let go of all that happened back then, had Isreal not kept messing them over, in lebanon, palestine, nuke etc. hence why I dont think its even possible for iran to consider becoming an ally at present. After all, it was Ayatullah Khomeini who declared the last friday of Ramdhan as AL-Quds day in support for the Palestinians.
Secondly, Jordan, Egypt are being bought off with hefty sums by Uncle Sam, i dont think any such thing is on the table for Iran, not least because she doesnae have any ‘formal’ dealings with America, and neither would the Ma’rja allow it.
Are you suggesting that because some retarded sunnis are killings shias in Iraq, Iran should seek revenge on palistinians? Or maybe you’re suggesting that shias start tit for tat bombings on sunnis? whatever it is, I think either way, its very detrimental to the situation, esp. in Iraq, where the first time since God knows, shias have some sort of political power in the gov. They have to tread carefully, and by starting a revenge campaign, i dont think they is gonna get too far. All its going to result in is increased hatred between the two. And we can all do without that. Also, you have to remember, not all sunnis are doing as such, 'tis only a minority that is quite difficult to distinguish from the average innocent person.
:halo:That was one reason why they became arch enemies, israels support for Shah whilst he exploited the country, an vice versa.
I think it will and has. Supporting the welfare programs in Palestine, Iran has alot to gain. It is the only way to reach out to them and make a postive imprint. Hopefully, the future generation will atleast have a positive attitude towards Iran/shias. Hence, its very beneficial in the long term.
To be honest, I dont know what was happening in Iran, when lebanese were being killed, but what i do know is that America is still trying to isolate and intimidate Iran to this day, and Iran as usual is not going to take kindly to the ‘great satan’s’ behaviour, hence why marg barg Amrika has not stopped since. They’ve never really had a chance to really. Its the same with isreal.
You’d be surprised actually where its got them. From being isolated from their godamn ‘arab brothers’ during the iran/iraq war, to being the only muslim country in the mideast that can hold its own and stand up to the world, i think its come quite far.
As for Shias in saudi, they had little rights or power, however, lately, due to the increasing ties with Iran and King Abdullah, we’ve seen some very positive steps, and changes towards the minority citizens, esp. shias. Apart from that, Iranians at Hajj and Umrah have free hand now as compared to before, when the authorities were quite strict on thier movement and what they could do or not do. Nowadays, they are actually quite laid back, However, even though theres still a long way to go yet, they’ve still come a fair bit in the past couple a years, which is most likely due to the Iranian influence.
I dont agree. IMO the ‘terrorism’ is a response to to Israeli aggression. With that logic, both nations deserve what they get.
In fact the Lebanese Shia greeted the Israelis as liberators when they killed the Palestianian animals who were killing their Shia women and children
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Can u tell me when did this happen and what sources you have to back up this claim. Tell me a link or a book.
I will however ask a few shia lebanese that i know, coz they have never talked about this
There is quite a history of bloody engagements beween the Shia and the Palestinians in Lebanon. The slaughter seems to go both ways. In April 2004, I posted a thread called"The Forgotten Shiite Massacre at Sabra and Shatila." The Shiite militia under the sponsorship of Syria conducted a vicious massacre of Palestinians at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps 3 years after the much more publicized massacre blamed on Sharon. According to UN estimates, more than 650 Palestinians were slaughtered and more than 2000 wounded.
“Less than three years after the Israeli-backed 1982 massacre, the camps again were attacked with almost the same ferocity by the Syrian-backed Shi’i-dominated Amal militia. Amal’s full-scale military attack on the Sabra-Shatila and Bourj al-Barajna refugee camps in west Beirut in May 1985 was the first of three separate sieges that lasted through 1988 and became known in Lebanon as “The Camp Wars.” “
“On the eve of the attack on the Palestinian camps in Beirut in the spring of 1985, Amal leader Nabih Berri, who now is a member of Lebanon’s cabinet, stated that Amal refuses “to go back to the situation prevailing before 1982 and the rebuilding of a [Palestinian] state within a [Lebanese] state.” Most Lebanese explained that Amal was doing the dirty work for Syria which, as the occupying power in most of Lebanon, had a vested interest in seeing the Palestinians remain weak and powerless.”
“The first battle of the camps erupted in May and lasted for a month. Some Sabra camp refugees fled deeper into adjoining Shatila camp but when Sabra fell after two weeks, many of the remaining inhabitants were massacred or again made refugees. At Gaza Hospital in Sabra 70 patients were taken from their beds and killed by Amal soldiers. “What the Israelis and their Christian allies could not finish in Sabra camp in September 1982 was completed by Amal in two weeks,” says Akram.”
“In November, 1986, however, the war of the camps resumed and this time the Palestinians were driven to near starvation during a six-month siege. “I didn’t even have food for my baby,” says Umm Mohammed of Shatila. “We would have to go get water through snipers, and every day a mother was shot down.” By March 1987, besieged camp inmates had requested a special religious dispensation to allow those still living to eat the dead. Fortunately the siege was lifted before that happened, but the last battle of the camps was a harrowing test of Palestinian resistance and determination. "
That’s why countries talk to each other. Why can’t Iran be humble and talk to Israel?
If those Arabs are enjoying the fruits of Uncle Sam, shouldn’t Iran get in on that action? Explain to me more about Marjas. Do none of them support a reconciliation of Iran with America or Israel? Are all of them politically motivated with respects to Iranian foreign policy?
Shias should do what they can to defend themselves. And they shouldn’t look to Iran. We know Iran doesn’t support Shia causes.
Ah and that’s why young Palestinians were shouting pro-Saddam slogans a few years back. Let me tell you something. Nobody in the Arab world cares about the Palestinians. The Palestinians are looked as the scum of the Arabs by other Arabs. They are looked down upon. But let’s say the future generation of Palestinians do look at Shias and Iran with positive attitudes. What does that accomplish? Does that give Shias rights in Saudi Arabia or Bahrain? NO. Like I said, Arabs don’t care about the Palistinians, why should Iran?
Yes we all know and admire Iran’s great nationalistic spirit and its ability to say F U to strong powers like America and Israel. So why can’t it give a big F U to those Arab countries who oppress Shias?
As far as I can remember, Egypt supported Iran and blamed Iraq as the agressor in that war. Iran might have come far, but the Shias in the Middle East are still downtrodden, despite Iran’s illusionary successes.
I know about these “steps” that the Saudis are taking and they are worthless. Shias are still in jail, they cannot hold and offices of power, they can’t practice their religion openly or get some of the oil profits which is rightfully theirs. Don’t forget, that it was America, the Great Satan who gave the Shias of Iraq a chance and they did in less than a year. After more than 25 years of the revolution, the Shias in the Middle East still face a grim future. Support of the Palestinian cause has not done anything to help them. If Iran actually cared about the plight of the Shias in the region it would re-think it’s flawed, outdated, anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian strategy.
I was having a discussion with one of my Shia friend's parents tonight on this topic. They are Pakistani. They said that because of the hateful nature of the Sunnis in Pakistan, the Sunnis would start killing Shias on a much larger scale than it already is, if Iran allied itself with Israel and America. I said that doesn't make sense, Pakistani Shias have nothing to do with Iran. They said ,to the ignorant Sunnis, that doesn't matter. When it comes to mob rule in Pakistan, logic and sense do not matter. Then I asked about Egypt and Jordan, secular Sunni nations with ties to Israel and America. They went back to the insistence that the Sunnis will start killing Shias for whatever reason that they can find.
Iran supports the Palestinians because the Palestinians are willing to die to kill Jews. Iran likes anyone who will kill Jews, particularly if they don't have to die in the process.
