why oh why
culture stems from a religious practice...
however.. if culture starts to overpower or contradict a religion.. one should leave those customs/practices of the culture
culture should compliment a religion.
-mehndi
There can never be a fine line between culture and religion, culture influence religion and vice versa and anybody to tries to deny it is just delusional.
Muslims in Tamilnadu tie Thali during marriages, while muslims in Pakistan may/do not. Some muslims in India wear bindi, while muslims in Saudi Arabia do not. Some muslims in india do NOT eat meat on saturdays and fridays and others muslims do.
Another point, staunch Muslims and christians in America, do not support abortion, Indian muslims don't even care about it. Some Muslims of America may declare themselves as homosexual, but no muslims of Saudiarabia would.
Thus religion evoloves and any denial is simple foolish. Religion evolves in different part of the world, based on the type of life style, culture and taste. It cannot escape it.
kumarakn,
I disagree, religion(specifically islam), remains constant throughout time and throughout the world, it is the interpretations of the religion that may differ--as you say--regionally. And also, though you state that there cannot be a fine line between culture and religion, i believe that when it comes to religion, adherence to culture isn't a priority.
Religion....or rather....Islam does NOT evolve.
Cultural practices are NOT synonymous with religious practices.
In complete consance with girl frm qurish, i would like to add, that this asimilation of religion and culture brings more of a confusion, resulting in an amalgamation, the concepts of which are at odds with each other. hence, all cultural values that have a nexus with islam may be adopted, ofcourse not at the expence of values clearly specified in this regard.
May we all be forgiven for our sins, intentional or otherwise. Ameen
[quote]
Originally posted by Girl from Quraysh:
**kumarakn,
I disagree, religion(specifically islam), remains constant throughout time and throughout the world, it is the interpretations of the religion that may differ--as you say--regionally. And also, though you state that there cannot be a fine line between culture and religion, i believe that when it comes to religion, adherence to culture isn't a priority.
Religion....or rather....Islam does NOT evolve.
Cultural practices are NOT synonymous with religious practices.
**
[/quote]
Denial of reality doesn't change the reality. Religion has to evolve or else, it will become outdated and die. Your faith may say that your religion will never change and remain frozen, but girlfromQ, if Islam does not evolve, it will die. Don't ban me for saying this, this is simple truth.
For example, Islam permits polygamy (I think). In India (again, I believe), Muslims can practice polygamy (as they have special privileges under the constitution). But Polygamy is an offence in USA. No Muslim can/should/wuld have more than 1 wife. That is the catalyst for change or metamorphosis. 2000 years from now, there will be a version of Islam, that bans polygamy and if you faith holds good, there will be another which supports polygamy.
The above example may be a wrong one, (on some technicality you may point out), but the fact that religion evolves is true. Or at least is implementation definitely would evolve(What good is religion, if it is not implemented?)
Already Islam shows change and its denial is merely delusional. The same Islamic manual is implemented differently in Afghanistan, India, Turkey and America. There are sub-sects of Islam, all claiming to be the correct version of Islam.
GirlfromQ, there is no reason to be alarmed. I am ** NOT ** telling that Islam will die, I am just telling that Islam will change. NO religion is immune to this. Hinduism has changed, Christianity has changed, so does any faith, man ever had. That proves the ability of man to think and refine himself and that is beautiful.
** Denial to this reality will only postpone your ability to accept the truth, but will never slow down the truth. ** Christianity vowed that sun went around the earth. In 1993, they officially accepted that the earth went around the sun.
Lastly I want to make sure that I am NOT understood as telling that verses of Quran would change. But the way it is intrepreted, used and followed will change.
[This message has been edited by kumarakn (edited February 18, 2001).]
Islam is for everyone, for all times and it will overcome all other religion. Similiar thought can be found in the verses of quran.
Its the people who adapt to other cultures and mold it into something that is appropriator according to their religion.
Look at the Pakistani Muslims and how they have adapted hindu and jewish rituals. That is not being loyal to your religion and NOT a religion dying or outdated. Its your choice either you adhere by the rules of your creator or you disobey him and follow something completely different.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
"Nay! We hurl truth against falsehood, so it destroys it: and behold, falsehood is vanquished..."Quran, al-Furqaan 25:33 ]
[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
*Islam is for everyone, for all times and it will overcome all other religion. *
[/quote]
Keep dreaming...for you can never paint the world with one color. The beauty with humans is their ability to differentiate and show their individualism. No religion, I repeat, no religion will ever be able to consume the whole world at the same time.
[quote]
**
Its the people who adapt to other cultures and mold it into something that is appropriator according to their religion.
Look at the Pakistani Muslims and how they have adapted hindu and jewish rituals. That is not being loyal to your religion and NOT a religion dying or outdated. Its your choice either you adhere by the rules of your creator or you disobey him and follow something completely different.
**
[/quote]
Thats what I say too. People will always change their implementation, and there is no reason why we should gripe about it. It is a beauty in itself. The Pakistani flavour of Islam is a beauty in itself and you shouldn't feel bad about it.
[This message has been edited by kumarakn (edited February 18, 2001).]
I am not dreaming. Its in the Quran. Have you read it?
Don't you see Islam is spreading all over the world at ever a greater pace than any other religion? Maybe you should reconsider your thought? Ok.
Pakistani falvor of Islam? There is only ONE flavor of Islam.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
"Nay! We hurl truth against falsehood, so it destroys it: and behold, falsehood is vanquished..."Quran, al-Furqaan 25:33 ]
[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**
Pakistani falvor of Islam? There is only ONE flavor of Islam.
**
[/quote]
ditto!
People should adapt themselves to Islam, rather than changing the religion to fit their needs... its true.. its happening.. but it should not be that way...
kumarakn,
First of all, let make one thing clear, you’re not going to get banned for voicing your opinion, wry smile
Alright, in the subject line of this thread, it asks, ‘Why does culture mix in with religion?’ Culture, like many–most other aspects of our environment, has the ability to influence the way we think, our sense of reason, our morals, etc.. But the keyword there is ‘influence’. A muslim is someone who surrenders themself completely to the will of the Almighty..the will of Allah swt, correct? Therefore, it makes sense, that for a muslim, one’s religion, islam, forms the basis for everything, for islam, as has been stated time and time again, is not merely a religion in the common sense of the word, but it reaches beyond that, to represent a complete way of life. To a muslim, it is natural, that when it comes to ‘culture’ regional or otherwise, religion must take precedence. After all, for a muslim, islam forms the basis, the foundation…the nucleus so to speak, for everything beyond oneself.
In my eyes, Islam and Islamic culture are one and the same, one who pursues Islam will maintain an Islamic attitude towards life and thus develop an ‘Islamic culture’, by that i mean that whatever there is in his/her own culture that is unfavourable in Islam will be discarded, and that which is permissible will be retained, thus the development of Islamic culture.
kumarakn, you mention a denial of reality, what reality am I supposedly denying? If you are speaking about religious ideologies in general, then I accept your statement, some religions may evolve over time, in fact I know they do, but Islam does not evolve, it is complete, it is perfect. There is a verse, in surah al maidah, where Allah swt says, ‘This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.’ (5:3)
You say, ‘If islam does not evolve, it will die’ would you mind explaining? I’m truly curious as to the reasoning behind your statement.
Hmm..I don’t see the relevance or perhaps the point you’re trying to make with polygamy. You state, ‘No muslim man can/should/would have more than one wife’ polygamy is permitted in Islam, under specific(sometimes extreme) circumstances, I ask you, who are you to make such a statement—I also ask you to study the shariah laws regarding polygamy, the circumstances surrounding—as well as the reasoning behind such an edict. You say that muslims in the states may not perform polygamy in accordance with US law, but that muslims living in India most likely can. But what does islamic shariah have to do with the laws governing citizens of the United States or India?
Evolution of religion versus evolution of implementation?
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Is there any difference? I really don’t think so.
Already Islam shows change? Examples please. Simply naming various countries wont do.
kumarakn, when you’re referring to sects, I believe the word to use is deviation, not evolution. Deviation from the original set of instructions, or ‘islamic manual’ as you put it doesn’t represent change, it represents departure…it represents digression.
>>>Don’t be alarmed?<<< kumarakn, I’m not afraid, because I know islam will never fade.
You state, * ‘Hinduism has changed, Christianity has changed, so does any faith, man ever had. That proves the ability of man to think and refine himself and that is beautiful.’* Though you may not believe islam is immune from change, I do. You are entitled to your own opinion, as I am to mine. ‘The ability of man…’ Islam is not a man-made religion, Islam is perfect, it needs no refinement, no addition, no subtraction, and therein lies the fallacy, the confusion, of other religions.
[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited February 19, 2001).]
The core:
There is no god but Allah and Muhammad (pbuh) is his Messenger.
has not changed.
its been 1421 years.
-mehndi
ISLAM IS THE BEST
Islam adopted everything from the Bedouin Arab culture to the T. the practice of polygamy, eating Halal (draining blood of animals) even the gestures in prayers, the concept of fasting, Zakat, etc. all existed for over 1000s of years before Prophet Mohammad. Culture has big influence on Religions from where it emerged. Monotheism alone does not make a religion a separate entity, if anything, Religion is a tiny (perhaps insignificant) part of any Culture. Only Culture prevails. Afghan Culture is as different from Arabs as day and night, yet both are Islamic Nations.
culture race and regional differences will dominate and divide the religen.
for the past 1000 years no two different islamic countries merged as one nation.
indonesias muslim will be different from bosnian muslim the distance and race and climate is just too much difference.
globalization in terms of movement of capital
and new ideas is much more succesful.
is islam a cohesive force in terms of putting
toghether all the islamic nations wealth
military srenghth? these are cha;llenging questions before islam.
if all the islamic nations come under one leadership with common goal it will be a formidable force ever created on earth
[This message has been edited by rvikz (edited February 20, 2001).]
Islam didn't specifically 'adopt' anything. Those practices you mention, of slaughter, of prayer, of fasting, NY, its true they existed long before the Prophet sallallaho alaihe wassallam's time, but they weren't 'pagan' practices, i mean Islam did not start with Prophet Muhammad (saw) it started with Adam alayhis salam. What Prophet Muhammad (saw) brought, was the completion and perfection of islam.
There is a hadith where it says that 124 000 prophets were sent down to mankind. Each of these prophets, men chosen by Allah swt to convey his guidance to mankind, asked people to obey and worship Allah swt and Allah swt alone, they taught people what was wrong and what was right, not only taught, but guided, and trained them. Doesn't it make sense then, that ideas, practices, learnt from those prophets..may the peace and blessings of Allah swt be upon them...carried over into the Prophet Muhammad (saw)'s time also? Perhaps distorted over time and with the deviance of the people, but 'there' nevertheless.
Culture has a momentous influence on peoples' lives there is no doubt about that, and because of that, it also influences their perception and subsequent implementation of their faith. I mean why else is it, that to this day, cultural/ethnic differences have the ability to divide people, to create conflict amongst those of the same faith. But thats hypocritical, because in islam we are supposed to disregard those differences, to look beyond them.
>>>Religion is a tiny (perhaps insignificant) part of any Culture.<<< I think that that statement's subjective, the truth in it varying with the religion being discussed. Religion has the potential, and the ability to shape culture, and it has done so. Culture prevails? I think religion prevails, culture may flavour, may distinguish one group from the other, but in islam, the basis, the structure is determined by faith--at the core of the culture lies religion. Afghan culture may be as different from that of the Arabs as day and night, but they are linked undeniably through the bond of islam, as you yourself have stated, and i believe, that in islam, religion takes precedence/priority over culture.