We see it so many times. We hear about it all the time. And still every day more and more people fall for all kinds of religious scams. I am talking specifically about Pakistan, and about all kinds of fraudulent peers and fakirs. I mean one look at these people and you can spot a fraud, and still we see hordes of people standing in line to get a blessing from the “peer saab” and to ask him to make dua to solve their problems.
I imagine abject poverty and no hope for the future brings people to do desperate deeds and begging a half-naked guy with various types of beads on his neck, unkept hair, a stick in his hand and almost totally passed out on an overdose of bhang, really means its a desperate plea for help. Lack of education is perhaps another reason.
But still, yaar, why fall for it every time. When will they learn?
ps. I guess other kinds of religious trickery will also fall under this.. .like in Western countries they have cults and groups of weird magical and religious values. Here seemingly educated folks fall for these all the time.
Lol, this reminded me of my visit to Pakistan, where one of my distant relatives (grandads cousin or something) is a Peer. He livied in some remote farm, and one day I was forced by my relatives to go visit him. Apparently people come from as far as Canda to visit him.
People were going upto him asking him to make dua for them. And the only advice he kept on giving was choose one sunnah that you find easy and follow that, nothing else. The funny thing was that even my Uncle, whose a hardcore Berelvi, was against him.
To be honest Im not sure what exactly makes people go to them. I think the main problem is that theyve taken respect for scholars too far, and apply it to anyone who claims or shows to be knowledgeable.
Religious ignorance plays a part, how many people actually read the Quran and understand it. How many people actually even question the peers for evidence, and even if they did, would they be able to check it. I think more than education lack of religious education plays a part, cause even here people have thier peers.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
ps. I guess other kinds of religious trickery will also fall under this.. .like in Western countries they have cults and groups of weird magical and religious values. Here seemingly educated folks fall for these all the time.
[/QUOTE]
I guess this shows that education alone is not enough. Look at all the people that believe in superstitions and horoscopes aswell.
Faisal, it all a matter of aqeeda....faith...agar aap ka faith nahi hain unn meiN tou why bash other people who have faith in peer sahib? Mashallah huemiN tou Kali Kambliwale Baba ji pe bahut bharosa hai...bhaut kuchh diya hai unhoN ne..car, ghar, biwi, jaab...abhi naya Fridge liya hai humne..pehlay din halwa bana kar rakha hai iss mein....bass abh kabhi kharab nahi hoga...no need to buy extended warranty. bas viswaash ki baat hai.
I think sometimes it's harder to take responsibility, think everything through for yourself. In some ways, blind faith comes easier, because when you start questioning everything around you, it's kind of scary. Nothing is stable, and there is nothing to rely on.
No difference between relying on some peer or some pundit or scripture from thousands of years ago. Use them as guidance not as law. Your brain does have the ability to discern between the two. Try it!! :k:
Faisal bhai,..only reason i see for the ppl who fallin the trap of these fake pirs..is lack of education-coupled with the local influence of getting impressed with kashf and karamat......which any one doing some mujahida can do...
infact as given in last hadith of mashkat shareef..many muslims(apparent ones) will accept dajjal as god nauzobillah ..reason..?.....dajjal wil be the biigest individual given karamat and every one believing in karamat as evidence of buzurgi will belive him as god...
Yup. Lack of education is one factor. But the problems people face in their every day lives are probably so immense that they would try every last glimmer of hope.
armughal... to be fair, I don't have anything against scholars and knowledgable people in Islam. And if someone wants to go and consult a scholar, its more like teacher-student relationship. More power to them. Some of these knowledgable people can really guide you to the right path and you can learn a lot from just being in their company.
My post was more on those who use religion to make quick money. Like some peers have rate lists. If you want them to make dua for getting a son, they charge you a set amout of money. Some others strongly encourage people to bring gifts. These kind of scam artists give everyone a bad name. Yet, people fall for them all the time.
My belief is that all Scholars be it from 16th century or the 20th century
have no idea what they have done ! due to lack of inter-relations or communications they have further divulged the religion into divisions through their won charismatic self being and have no revelence on actual facts and research, but have been influenced by the events and catastrophies of the “time” one way or the other. Thus ! gives us the sacts of Hanfi’s, wahabi’s, Mufti’s and so on,
Lets Talk about ;;;
One ALLAH :swt:
One Quran " The FINAL transcript of ALLAH’s instruction to us
One Prophet Mohammad -:saw: The leader of the messingers, The last Prophet and the messenger - Who COMPLETED his message unto us…
and then its US (not the usa) the umma of Mohammad :saw: The alleged followers, the choosen ones, the lucky ones.
YET ! YET !
when we talk about conficts of opinions and guidlines, hadiths and qoute - un qoutes , We go over board many a times over and over again…
So the facts remains and daring for you to believe in the One’ness and shed all other sources of your so called “knowledge” and broader perspective of what " WHAT IS NEEDED OF US " by Allah swt.
I am a humble servant of Allah swt and always consider my self as a learning person, as the knowledge is never complete even at our death bed.
This is the “SIMPLE” religion of Islam that we should follow.
Only then we will be able to fight devilish evils, Shirq and consperacies through black sheeps into our religion Islam.
Allah knows all and better,
Re: Why do so many people fall for religious scams?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
We see it so many times. We hear about it all the time. And still every day more and more people fall for all kinds of religious scams. I am talking specifically about Pakistan, and about all kinds of fraudulent peers and fakirs. I mean one look at these people and you can spot a fraud, and still we see hordes of people standing in line to get a blessing from the "peer saab" and to ask him to make dua to solve their problems.
I imagine abject poverty and no hope for the future brings people to do desperate deeds and begging a half-naked guy with various types of beads on his neck, unkept hair, a stick in his hand and almost totally passed out on an overdose of bhang, really means its a desperate plea for help. Lack of education is perhaps another reason.
But still, yaar, why fall for it every time. When will they learn?
ps. I guess other kinds of religious trickery will also fall under this.. .like in Western countries they have cults and groups of weird magical and religious values. Here seemingly educated folks fall for these all the time.
[/QUOTE]
Assalam Aleekum
Its not just the poor people after these Peers. Rich or poor, It doesn't matter.As long as people are away from Sunnah. These things will
happen. People in Pak claim that they are followers of Imam Abu Hanfia(RA) , BUT THEY ARE not. Your talking about rate list, bhi see the ADS
in newspaper freaks(peers) have OFFICES and multiple cell numbers.
People themselves have created rivals to Allah(SWT).
What is peer is going to give. He or she depends or people's money.
Our PM's Benazir and NawazSharif went to see a Baba. I call him Nanga peer.
B/c he doesn't wear Kameez. Anyways, If the Baba hits a aspirant
politician with a Jahroo he or she is going to become PM other wise they will not.
Both our leaders went to see him.And remember B B is a Oxford Grad,
I guess.
Re: Why do so many people fall for religious scams?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
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Faisal Bhai,
I believe your thread is a result of my thread of "hamzaad"
Actually the point I was making is to know the flaws and mistrust, weaknesses in our beliefs before we can start to ignore them and warn others.
However, your effort is an old school of thought whining about the poor , the under previleged, un educated society members who do lots of things wrongly beside follow the religion. Lets talk about how to get rid of peer, mureed culture al together.
Re: Re: Why do so many people fall for religious scams?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
Assalam Aleekum
Our PM's Benazir and NawazSharif went to see a Baba. I call him Nanga peer.
B/c he doesn't wear Kameez. Anyways, If the Baba hits a aspirant
politician with a Jahroo he or she is going to become PM other wise they will not.
Both our leaders went to see him.And remember B B is a Oxford Grad,
I guess.
[/QUOTE]
Nanga pir oh my goodness hate to think who musharaff sees sorry we already know Bush Pir!
This pirs and fakirs are jokers i even confront them and they are cowards who hide behind a crew or family usually. The people who have been posting about these pirs are correct they promise everything under the sun as long as you got the cash ready.
They even promised one of my friends that they can talk to his dead brother, my friend threatned to knock pirs block off if he ever saw him again!
There is no place in islam for these fraudsters you do not need no third party to make dua or pray to allah(swt)
As for west they have many groups like these fraudsters like this Scientology group who take all your moneys is kinda scary along with other wierdo group i been reading about this kabbadi or kaballa or kebaba group but dont know what they doing expect take peoples money!
Re: Re: Re: Why do so many people fall for religious scams?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
Nanga pir oh my goodness hate to think who musharaff sees sorry we already know Bush Pir!
This pirs and fakirs are jokers i even confront them and they are cowards who hide behind a crew or family usually. The people who have been posting about these pirs are correct they promise everything under the sun as long as you got the cash ready.
They even promised one of my friends that they can talk to his dead brother, my friend threatned to knock pirs block off if he ever saw him again!
There is no place in islam for these fraudsters you do not need no third party to make dua or pray to allah(swt)
As for west they have many groups like these fraudsters like this Scientology group who take all your moneys is kinda scary along with other wierdo group i been reading about this kabbadi or kaballa or kebaba group but dont know what they doing expect take peoples money!
[/QUOTE]
Pak me bhe buhat advance hee. these peers. Koran ka name use
karke fraud kartee heee.
And one of Gohar Shahi was even involved in rape.
ran away from country and died.
Per fakir are the fruits of the culture we have cultivated.
If we are GOD fearing and we ourselves believe in GOd well, with real faith, in GOD, then no one would go to Pir Fakir.
But the reason is, people know themselves through and through ; so they believe in, that we are bad and GOD is not going to oblige us by answering our prayers.
And they think and believe that pir fakir is a better muslim than them.
GOD listens and answers to their prayer; so they go to them for asking to pray or do something for them to get what they want.
And they are, then trapped in that spider net. It is a kind of punishment from GOD to those bad people, who do not have faith in GOD and are bad doers.
Ofcourse some people are good but innocent they just go to them as a result of some one pushing them , to visit that place to get what you want.
Re: Beggers, It has become a business for some people
And some are really needy; since we can not differentiate between the two. We must give what ever possibly we can. Since this is also the business in the name of GOd. And GOd has promised if you give money in my way ; I increase it many fold. So we give money to people on road, this encourages more like them to be there. Bye Sokoon
P.S:
I am so sorry it has again so big reply. Next time I would try to keep it short.
Many people are ignorant, and so they are frightened. People who are frightened can be manipulated. Use guilt and it works really well and fast.
It takes a lot of education and self confidence for a person to be able to think logically and independently in the presence of societal pressure. It takes a cool balanced and sometimes fearless person to present his/her conclusions. Not many people like that are around, so of course you get sucked into the "peer culture" (pun intended). And long live the scams!