Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
Cause it will be very lonely up in heaven since most of us are going to hell.
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
, but atheism, from which disbelievers come, states that there is no reason for human being to be moral and objective notion of morality does not exis
Where did you read this?
Atheists don't believe in God or at least the supernatural acts of deity.
Morality has nothing to do with it.
Atheist philosphers *"assert that behaving ethically only because of divine mandate is not true ethical behavior but merely blind obedience. Baggini argues that atheism is a superior basis for ethics, claiming that a moral basis external to religious imperatives is necessary to evaluate the morality of the imperatives themselves—to be able to discern, for example, that "thou shalt steal" is immoral even if one's religion instructs it—and that atheists, therefore, have the advantage of being more inclined to make such evaluations. *"
BTW I'm not an atheist, but I think you have them pegged wrong in terms of the morality/ethics thing.
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
atheists are the most religious people ever.
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
its like Amway and other multilevel marketing...more people you convert and more people they convert the more benefit you get.
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
Well this is long debate. Allthough some disbelievers does not deny the notion of morality, but atheism, from which disbelievers come, states that there is no reason for human being to be moral and objective notion of morality does not exist. Considering it, would you condemn that atheism?
What? What is the evidence for this? Considering that atheists countries nowadays provide more justice than religious ones. And yes you will say US but countries like Sweden or Norway or Germany are better examples of how places with no religion in states show all the morality while religious places are where thousands die, where there is crime, murder, bigotry rife in everyday life.
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
Where did you read this?
Atheists don't believe in God or at least the supernatural acts of deity.
Morality has nothing to do with it.
did you try to understand what actually OP is asking, and how he want people answer his question?
he is not interested in religious references, try to get gist of OP.
[QUOTE]
Atheist philosphers "assert that behaving ethically only because of divine mandate is not true ethical behavior but merely blind obedience. Baggini argues that atheism is a superior basis for ethics, claiming that a moral basis external to religious imperatives is necessary to evaluate the morality of the imperatives themselves—to be able to discern, for example, that "thou shalt steal" is **immoral* even if one's religion instructs it—and that atheists, therefore, have the advantage of being more inclined to make such evaluations. *"
BTW I'm not an atheist, but I think you have them pegged wrong in terms of the morality/ethics thing.
[/QUOTE]
if you ask an atheist what is immoral and what is not, he/she will tell you there is no way to define morality objectively. so the argument is absurd.
They say objective notion of morality does not exist. You got what *objective * means here?
Yes, I am talking about theory because this will base our future.
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
did you try to understand what actually OP is asking, and how he want people answer his question? he is not interested in religious references, try to get gist of OP.
if you ask atheist what is immoral and what is not, he/she will tell you there is no way to define morality objectively. so the argument is absurd. They say objective notion of morality does not exist. You got what *objective * means here? Yes, I am talking about theory because this will base our future.
I was asking you what you meant in what I quoted from you above, not what the OP was talking about, that's a whole other matter.
As for asking an atheist about morality, that is your opinion again on how they will answer. If you are just gonna answer with what your opinion is, then there really is no point continuing this discussion with you. Unless you can tell me you asked every atheist and they answered the way you said.
The rest of what you are saying is not very clear and I am not sure what you are trying to say so I have no comment on it.
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
I was asking you what you meant in what I quoted from you above, not what the OP was talking about, that's a whole other matter.
As for asking an atheist about morality, that is **your opinion again on how they will answer.** If you are just gonna answer with what your opinion is, then there really is no point continuing this discussion with you. Unless you can tell me you asked every atheist and they answered the way you said.
The rest of what you are saying is not very clear and I am not sure what you are trying to say so I have no comment on it.
lets hold on other things, and you clarify first, whether it is my opinion or atheist.
If you dont know how to clarify, just ask any atheist. I said any atheist.
would you try to ask some atheist a question as simple as 'is there a way to define morality objectively?'
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
lets hold on other things, and you clarify first, whether it is my opinion or atheist. If you dont know how to clarify, just ask any atheist. I said any atheist.
It's your opinion on what you think an atheist is. I've talked to enough atheists to know that they do have moral compasses, and do think that things like lying, stealing, killing etc is morally wrong. They say they don't need a religion to tell them these things, but rather how they have been brought up and what they have learned in their interaction through growing up and society and common sense.
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
It's your opinion on what you think an atheist is. I've talked to enough atheists to know that they do have moral compasses, and do think that things like lying, stealing, killing etc is morally wrong. They say they don't need a religion to tell them these things, but rather how they have been brought up and what they have learned in their interaction through growing up and society and common sense.
My first post in this thread is about proponents of theories. You are confusing my argument with practice of some atheists which is influenced by environment and society. Wehre as the theory they believe in is objective notion of morality does not exist.
If you understand what and how OP is asking a question, you will get how I am replying and what bolded part means. Otherwise, I would agree that there is communication gap between you and me.
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
Okay, well maybe I misunderstood, but when you said :
Allthough some disbelievers does not deny the notion of morality, but atheism, from which disbelievers come, states that there is no reason for human being to be moral and objective notion of morality does not exist.
it seemed like you meant that all atheists believe that there is no reason for human beings to me moral and that is what I didn't understand. If you only meant certain atheist believe that, yes I agree with you. But then certain people who believe in God also do highly immoral things, so that theme is pretty much universal.
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
Okay, well maybe I misunderstood, but when you said :
it seemed like you meant that all atheists believe that there is no reason for human beings to me moral and that is what I didn't understand. If you only meant certain atheist believe that, yes I agree with you. But then certain people who believe in God also do highly immoral things, so that theme is pretty much universal.
You need to keep two things in mind while discussing.
1. We are talking about theories atheists believe in.
2. Things that do not exist objectively, do not exist in reality and everyone can have personalized meaning of subjective things.
'There is no reason for human being to be moral' *can be implied from atheists' argument of *'objective notion of morality does not exist'. For atheists, moral values do not exist objectively so there is not point to distinguish between moral and immoral.
Every atheist believes objective notion of morality does not exist. Subjective and personalized version morality would lead to contradiction and disaster.
If a religious person acts immoral and does not bother to repent, would you consider him religious?
Believing in God and acting immoral would not get you success nor does the religion endorse this behavior.
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
what does atheists’ morality or lack of morality have to do with this topic? 
what is so moral about being a public nuisance, holding up offensive placards, yelling near-obscenities in the name of god?
Restored attachments:
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
** 'There is no reason for human being to be moral' *can be implied from atheists' argument of *'objective notion of morality does not exist'. For atheists, moral values do not exist objectively so there is not point to distinguish between moral and immoral. **
Every atheist believes objective notion of morality does not exist. Subjective and personalized version morality would lead to contradiction and disaster.
I bolded and isolated that one part because this is what I was trying to get to from you. You believe that since all atheists don't have an objective view of morality, thus they believe there is no reason for humans to be moral. And again I believe that is just** your opinion** because I have met enough atheists who are moral in their behavior. . I just don't judge people as an entirety, and rather take things more on each person's behavior.
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
I think a lot of people who become religious feel its their duty to share the positive influence "faith" has in their lives.
Part of helping and doing good for others in their view is also allowing them to benefit.
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
This is true for almost all religions where religious people think they must spread their message so unbelievers wont go to hell. Why do you think it is your duty to prevent others from going to hell? Why not be noble/humble/pious in your life and forget others?
Well ... I was thinking of answering it but is that not a really strange question?
It is misguidance not to guide ... If I see a bump on the road that could harm someone - it is my moral obligation to make that known to other drivers ... I still can't stop them hitting it, but at least I did my best to bring it to their attention.
I could just easily walk on by - but then on the Day of Judgment I don't want to have to bail out others with my deeds because I failed to show the true version of Islam to people who turn around on the Day and blame me for not giving the right kind or no dawah to them while they lived with me in this life.
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
I bolded and isolated that one part because this is what I was trying to get to from you. You believe that since all atheists don't have an objective view of morality, thus they believe there is no reason for humans to be moral. And again I believe that is just your opinion because I have met enough atheists who are moral in their behavior. . I just don't judge people as an entirety, and rather take things more on each person's behavior.
atheists don't have an objective view of morality, is a fact. any doubt?
Then, that implication may not be valid practically for each atheist but is valid theoretically for each atheist.
I am not talking about how some of atheists behave in real life, but i am talking about their belief.
would you look at my response after differentiating between belief and behavior?
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
Well ... I was thinking of answering it but is that not a really strange question?
It is misguidance not to guide ... If I see a bump on the road that could harm someone - it is my moral obligation to make that known to other drivers ... I still can't stop them hitting it, but at least I did my best to bring it to their attention.
I could just easily walk on by - but then on the Day of Judgment I don't want to have to bail out others with my deeds because I failed to show the true version of Islam to people who turn around on the Day and blame me for not giving the right kind or no dawah to them while they lived with me in this life.
Great answer. I agree. But I'd be careful I don't say "you'll go to hell for that" because no matter how awesome I am, I still have no idea what I may be going to hell for. So let's say I see you drink alcohol and you're my friend, I can come up to you and say, brother, U do realize that we're supposed to avoid this...and you may think about what I said later. But if I say, dude, you're going to hell for drinking, you could turn around and say, Hey, don't be too sure about where you're going! See what I'm saying?
The OP is talking about an attitude that many religious people have, how they digress from what is truly "dawah" and how they feel it is obligatory upon them to pass judgement on others.
Re: Why do religious people think they must prevent everyone from going to hell?
atheists don't have an objective view of morality, is a fact. any doubt? Then, that implication may not be valid practically for each atheist but is valid theoretically for each atheist. I am not talking about how some of atheists behave in real life, but i am talking about their belief. would you look at my response after differentiating between belief and behavior?
Athiest: someone who does not have belief in the existence of God. Simple definition.
To have moral values, you do not need to be part of an organized religion. And being part of an organized religion doesn't mean you're always moral and ethical. Most of how we deal with people is common sense, part of human values that stem from principles of humanity.