Why do people assume that Islam degrades women?

:)

I'm not married, so I can't answer that.
What you have just said about men comparing their wives to other women.....well can that not work both ways? Is it not possible for a woman to compare her man to others? Is that really attraction to the opposite sex? I thought marriage was about compromising, if she isn't perfect, surely that means that you aren't either. And, if she means something to you, then the imperfections do not matter, would they not make you love her more?

Maybe I just have old fashioned views regarding marriage and love (til death do us part, and not "until he falls in love with someone else") Do relationships like these exist?? SOMEBODY, PLEASE REASSURE ME THAT THEY DO!! :)

Nadeem, what's your status, are you married/with someone at the moment?

Whenever you find a SHAREEF MAN, plz let me know<<

Actually I know many SHAREEF men. What you are saying reminds me of a proverb "Sawan kay Andhai Koa Hara hi Hara Dikhta hai" (people see others through their own screens).

i think we might be loosing the thread here ,... please scroll up to the topic to make sure what your posting here is relevant to this post. Otherwise please post another topic.
thanks

Here in Norway me bhi hum ko ye hi problem he!(about women rights)
Mera khyal he ke kafi muslim Islam ko follow nehi karte jis ki wajah se misunderstanding hoti he ! Yaha ke log (norwegian people) samajte hain ke jo bhi KOI muslim karta he Islam he !!!!!!!
Norway me koch muslim girls ke saat jabar ki shadian hoi hain so they think that are in Islam !!!!
Did I answer your question ????

Larki Pakistani,

:)

;)

Rani,

[quote]
Actually I know many SHAREEF men. What you are saying reminds me of a proverb "Sawan kay Andhai Koa Hara
hi Hara Dikhta hai" (people see others through their own screens).
[/quote]

Jinab! Etna Ghussa akhir keiouN. Is it the Ghussa of POLITICS forum??????

By the way, I didn't tell (even once) that I am a SHAREEF GUY. And as per your proverb, 'am like that "people see others through their own screens."

My way is that, I respect every single female, irrespective of her religion, caste, and creed. Unlike others, when ppl say that whatever you wanna do, do it with non-Muslim girls. Its all okay. I say that, I hate this approach. If you feel that I am wrong and 'am not a shareef guy, its upto you.

My knowledge of Sikh and this community is quite limited to my sikhs friends when I helped (or helping) them. These friends are very nice human beings though they are FREEDOM FIGHTERS fighting against the atrocities against the sikh comunity.

But as per your WORDS they (we) are traitor and you ppl don't need friends like us. We put our heads down and decided to leave you there alone. This reminds me a very nice incident. When I went to Amritsir to meet one of your GRU. While talking, I told that "GRU Ji a time will come when your own ppl will point fingers at us(Muslims), but after all we will never ever let you down until you keep fighting against the aggressors." He came lil forward to me, I saw his eyes were full of tears and he said, "HAQ DA SATH DAYNAY WALOUn NouN LOG AYSA HE KEHANDAYn HAIEn, OO SADAY LOGAn NAIEn." Rani Ji, what can I say?????????

TU AGER MERA NAHIEN BANTA, NA BUN, APNA TO BUN....(Allama Iqbal)


farhana,

Sorry for delayed response, as I was lil busy.

[quote]
Is it not possible for a woman to compare her man to others? Is that really attraction to the opposite sex? I
thought marriage was about compromising, if she isn't perfect, surely that means that you aren't either. And, if
she means something to you, then the imperfections do not matter, would they not make you love her more?
[/quote]

Yes, off course it possible for a woman to compare her man with others. Truly, women do like that. May be thats their weak point but it is there. And one more thing, even if their men are not upto the mark of "TOM CRUISE", but they feel that they are having Toms in their pocket. This indicates a woman TRUE LOVE for her husband but on the other hand, man always finds "some bad things" in his wife (as per West Philosophy, his Girl Friend). The same point that I told you before.

[quote]
Maybe I just have old fashioned views regarding marriage and love (til death do us part, and not "until he falls in
love with someone else") Do relationships like these exist?? SOMEBODY, PLEASE REASSURE ME THAT THEY DO!!
[/quote]

No your views are all okay; according to the views of a COMMON PAKISTANI ORIGIN GIRL. Thats all okay.

[quote]
Nadeem, what's your status, are you married/with someone at the moment?
[/quote]

Thats the most tricky part of your question. Anyhow, am single and not involved with anyone, anymore. But I like to tell you (and all others reading this post) my perception of relationship. Plz correct me, if 'am wrong:

Unlike normal guys, I've decided that "I'll not have any 'illegal' relationship with anyone whosoever she is, inshallah!" If it comes to relation, it would be marriage. Pehlay Shadi phir Muhabbat. All Love/shove Buz will start after marriage and I believe thats the right way, provides more security to woman. Though it looks very funny and my firends used to say ........ but I don't care.


Nadeem

Nadeem,

you seem like you know what you're talking about, (which is some sense!!!)

[quote]
Originally posted by Nadeem:
**
All Love/shove Buz will start after marriage and I believe thats the right way, provides more security to woman.
**
[/quote]

I think you're right about the security bit........maybe there's hope for men afterall!! ;)

Thanks Farhana!

I will try my best to prove myself infront of Women; Paki women.


Nadeem

Well it take much to understand some of quran which is about women...men and women are EQUAL at all time they are! AT some situations where there is need of a command or in which one has to follow a lead...(marriage is example of that kinda command) you need a commander you need someone to give commands out...if you have 2 commanders on one ship there is a major possiblity that the ship will have problems...now just to give example...if both men and women were put equal in the case of marriage..what do you think will happen..they will fight for the power..or to be listened too...or to have control of other one...get my point?
Plz dont missUnderstand me...think about it

Jaawan


Till next time**Keep_It_Simple_Stupid**©

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. To stop it from spreading the west tried to find something in it that is bad. After not finding anything they went after two issues ; jihad and women;.
Most people watch the media and believe what it says. So they radiculated these two issues and partrayed a bad image of muslims. Its just a mean to stop islam. That is why if someone understands these two things then they accept Islam.

Hey Jaawan,

2 Commanders?............You never heard of compromise??

Well Said proudpakistani

Really you deserve this TITLE!

Don't you agree Farhana??????


Nadeem

Farhana sahibaa it was used as an EXAMPLE...read the thing again please...at the end i said PLEAse DONt missunderstand me..but i guess u didnt read that either...
compromise...its all in islam in quran in hadith if you get time to read and give about one hour of your 25 hours to that you will not be complaining here about why islam(seen by west) degrades women...if you can get time to do other stuff like movies and chating and other "Extracuricular" activites of yourss..im sure you can manage reading about islam too.

Jaawan


Till next time**Keep_It_Simple_Stupid**©

[This message has been edited by Jaawan (edited March 03, 2000).]

Please see thESE site for more info on women…married women…soo on and soo on… http://Muttaqun.com/womenframes.html http://www.islamicity.org/dialogue/Q689.HTM http://www.islamicity.org/dialogue/Q672.HTM http://www.islamicity.org/dialogue/Q674.HTM
http://islamicity.org/Dialogue/W.htm#TOPICS

GOOD LUCK!

Jaawan


Till next timeKeep_It_Simple_Stupid©

Pa JawaaNa,

Zara Holay Holay...Kurri lore(Lahore) dee hay, per Uss Nu Welayat(London) dee hawa o lag gaie hay, Tussi hat hola rakho, aseN samjah lewaN gaie!!!!

Rab Rakha


Nadeem

SALAM TO ALL MUSLIMS :)

There have been a reference repeadely used by many posters "if you or a man is seeing a woman...Well that is NOT permitted in Islaam. Before marriage male and female can look at each other. This is the only time hijab is relaxed for a woman. Below are some references from Noble Quran and Ahadeeths that will answer all the questions one/you may have. The answer is sitting in each home on *TA'AQ."

Fornication forbidden, Noble Quran 4:24, 4:25, 4:27, 5:5
Adultery, Noble Quran 17:33

Polygamy

Noble Quran 4:3! And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan­girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice.

Non-believer

Noble Quran 2:221! And do not marry Al-Mushrikât (idolatresses, etc.) till they believe (worship Allâh Alone). And indeed a slave woman who believes is better than a (free) Mushrikah (idolatress, etc.), even though she pleases you. And give not (your daughters) in marriage to Al-Mushrikûn] till they believe (in Allâh Alone) and verily, a believing slave is better than a (free) Mushrik (idolater, etc.), even though he pleases you. Those (Al-Mushrikûn) invite you to the Fire, but Allâh invites (you) to Paradise and Forgiveness by His Leave, and makes His Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) clear to mankind that they may remember.

Noble Quran 5:5! Made lawful to you this day are At­Tayyibât [all kinds of Halâl (lawful) foods, which Allâh has made lawful (meat of slaughtered eatable animals, etc., milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits, etc.). The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals, etc.) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them. (Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before your time, when you have given their due Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), desiring chastity (i.e. taking them in legal wedlock)** not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girl-friends. And whosoever disbelieves in the Oneness of Allâh and in all the other Articles of Faith [i.e. His (Allâh's), Angels, His Holy Books, His Messengers, the Day of Resurrection and Al­Qadar (Divine Preordainments)], then fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers.**

AHADEETH

MARRIAGE

Young men, those of you who can support a wife should marry, for it keeps you from looking at strange women and preserves you from immorality, but those who cannot, should devote themselves to fasting, for it is a means of suppressing sexual desire.
(Bukhari, Muslim).

The whole world is to be enjoyed, but the best thing in the world is a pious woman.
(Muslim).

When a man marries, he has fulfilled half of the religion, so let him fear Go regarding the remaining half.
(Bukhari).

After fear of God, a believer gains nothing better for him than a good wife who obeys him if he gives her a command, pleases him if he looks at her, is true to him if he adjures her to do something, and is sincere towards him regarding her person and his property if he is absent.
(Ibn Majah.)

Jabir said, the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: "When one of you asksa woman in marriage, then if he is able that he should look into what invites him to have her in marriage, he should do it.
(Abu Dawud).

Abu Huraira reported, The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "A woman is married on account of four things; on account of her wealth, on account of (the nobility) of the family, and her beauty, and on account of her character (Bukhari).

Ai'sha(ra) said, The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: "Make the marriage publicly known, and perform it in mosques and beat at it with duff
(Tirmidhi, Mishkat).

Ibn Umar reported, The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: "When one of you is invited to a marriage feast, he should go to it.
(Bukhari).

RIGHTS OF WIVES
When a woman observes the five time of prayers, fasts during Ramadan, preserves her chastity, and obeys her husband, she may enter by any of the gates of paradise she wishes.
(Abu Nu'aim).

A believer must not hate his wife, and if he is displeased with one bad quality in her, then let him be pleased with one that is good in her.
(Muslim).

Among the believers who show most perfect faith are those who have best disposition and are kindest to their families.
(Tirmidhi).

WOMEN IN ISLAM

Reported from Anas b. Malik, the Prophet said: "Girls are models of affection and sympathy and a blessing to the family. If a person has one daughter, God will screen him from the fire of hell owing to his daughter; if he has two daughters, God will admit him to paradise; if he has three, God will exempt him from the obligation of charity and Jehad."
(Kanz al-Ummal:277).

Abu Hurairah says, "The Prophet of God said that if a person has three daughters whom he provides for and brings up, God will surely reward him with paradise."
(Kanz al-Ummal).

According to Abdullah ibn Mas'ud, the Prophet is reported to have said; "If a daughter is born to a person and he brings her up, gives her a good education and trains her in the arts of life, I shall myself stand between him and hell-fire.
(Kanz al-Ummal).

Ibn Abbas reported that a virgin grown-up girl came to the Prophet of Allah and narrated that her father had given her in marriage to a person whom she disliked. The Prophet gave her option.
(Abu Dawud).

Khansa' b. Khidham reported that her father gave her in marriage, after she had became a widow. She disliked it and came to the Prophet. He annulled the marriage.
(Bukhari).

According to Ayeshah, the Prophet's wife, he said about women: "They are like pleasing roses."
(Kanz al-Ummal).

According to a report from Abdullah b. 'Umar, the Prophet (peace be upon him) declared: "The whole world is a thing to be made use of and the best thing in the world is a virtuous wife."
(Muslim).

Ayeshah praised the women of Ansar for their spirit of enquiry and learning, saying, 'How praiseworthy are the women of Ansar that their modesty does not prevent them from attempts at learning and the acquisition of knowledge.'
(Sahih Muslim Kitab al Tahrat).

Umar, the Second Caliph, says, 'When a person marries a woman, and the woman stipulates that she would not be taken out of the town or city, of her residence, it is necessary for the husband to abide by the stipulation.'
(Tirmidhi p. 385).

A report from Ibn Abbas states that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: 'A previously married woman is more a guardian for herself than her guardian and a virgin should be asked permission about herself, and her permission is her silence.'
(Muslim).

Abu Hurairah reports that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: 'A grown-up girl shall be asked permission about herself. If she is silent, it is her permission; and if she declines, there shall be no compulsion on her.'
(Muslim).

Ibn Umar says: 'Uthman b. Mazu'um left behind a young daughter. My uncle, Qudamah, married her to me, and did not even consult her. When the girl came to know this, she disliked this marriage and she wished to marry Mughirah b. Shu'bah. So she was married to Mughirah.
(Ibn Majah).

Ayeshah, says, 'A girl came and stated that her father had given her in marriage to his nephew and she disliked him. I told her to wait till the Prophet arrived. When the Prophet came, I told him the full story of the girl. He at once sent for the father of the girl and enquired whether the facts stated were true, after which he told the girl the she was at liberty to choose or repudiate her husband. The girl replied that she chose to retain her marriage, and she wanted only to know whether women had the rights in the matter.'
(Nasai).

A report from Abu Hurairah says: 'No believer should be angry towards his wife. If some of her qualities are displeasing, there will be many other qualities worth appreciation.'
(Nail al-Autar).


Bubble Buster
"The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."

[This message has been edited by Bubble Buster (edited March 25, 2000).]

Holy Prophet also stated that a man can marry more than once only if he can keep all of his wives happy.
i dont know a lot about this topic but thats what i have read.
Asfia

[quote]
Originally posted by Nadeem:
**Lemme enter in this discussion with:

Our Holy Prophet(pbuh) got married many times and in todays modern society I personally prefer, instead of having multiple Girl Friends, its better to get married more than once, provided with some good reasons.

**
[/quote]

Women in Christianity and Islam:
We Muslims are well aware of the fact that Muslim women are objects of derision and mockery especially in the Western world. Women in Islam are portrayed to be "oppressed" and "inferior" by many Westerners. However, most of the Westerners I've heard this from are usually Christian. It is amazing how many verses the Christian bible has which supports Islamic treatment of women, among other issues. Here is a small list I would like to share with all of you. Please memorize it and defend the truth from those who make a mockery out of it! You will also know that the christian bible degrades the female sex!

ARE WOMEN OPPRESSED IN ISLAM?

Islam: Women must cover their heads as a sign of "modesty." It also serves as protection for the female.
Christianity: 1 CORINTHIANS 11:3-10 in the christian bible orders women to cover their heads in prayers. These verses further state that the male doesn't have to cover his head because "female was made from male, and the male not from the female." It further states that a woman covering her head is a sign of male "authority."
Conclusion: Islam and Christianity both tell women to cover their heads.
The main difference, however, is that women in Islam cover their heads for purposes of "modesty." Christian women cover their heads as a sign of "male authority." It is clear that the bible gives women an inferior status, whereas Islam doesn't.

Islam: Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) were EQUALLY responsible for eating from the "forbidden tree." They both repented and were forgiven by the Most-Forgiving and Most-Merciful Allahu ta'ala.

Christianity: Eve ate from the "forbidden tree" BEFORE Adam did. Adam ate from the tree AFTER Eve did. The woman was deceived FIRST. Because of EVE causing Adam to sin by eating from the forbidden tree, the ground is "cursed." God doesn't forgive them, but damns them and humanity -- thanks to Eve (the woman)! ALL females go through "pains of childbearing" as a punishment from God -- because of EVE'S sin. All males have to go through pains of eating from the ground, thanks to EVE. ALL babies are born in SIN, thanks to EVE. All of this can be found in GENESIS 2:4-3:24.
"Adam was not decieved but the woman was" (1 TIMOTHY 2:11-14)
"Woman will be ruled over by the male" (GENESIS 3:16)
In other words, thanks to a FEMALE, we are damned!
It is clear that in Christianity, the very first woman is blamed for wrongdoing, but not the very first male.

Islam: Quran orders us that we should not "bury daughters alive."
Christianity: -"The birth of a daughter is a loss" (ECCLESIASTICUS 22:3, Catholic Bible)
- Ritual impurity of a mother is TWICE as long if a female is born and not a male. (LEVITICUS 12:2-5)
Is it not clear that Islam again gives a higher status to females? What Islam came to eradicate -- the bad treatment of females -- still continues in today's Protestant and Catholic scriptures.

ISLAM: Women can talk in the mosque.
CHRISTIANITY: -"It is a shame for women to talk in the church." (1 CORINTHIANS 14:34-35)
If females cannot talk, then how are they supposed to learn? Again, it is obvious that Islam gives the female a higher status than the bible does.

ISLAM: If the husband dies, then the wife may marry another male by choice.
CHRISTIANITY: If the husband dies without impregnating the wife, then the "brother" of the dead husband MUST marry his wife. The female CANNOT marry anyone else, but ONLY her dead husband's brother (DEUTERONOMY 25:5).
Islam gives the woman a choice to marry or not, and to whom she want to marry, if her husband dies. In Christianity (and Judaism), the woman has NO CHOICE, but to marry her dead husband's brother. It is clear which religion is oppressing women.

OTHER INTERESTING SIMILARITIES:

ISLAM: Cut off the hand if it steals - of course specific conditions apply).
CHRISTIANITY: "If your hand sins, it is better to cut it off instead of going to hell with both hands" (MARK 9:43)
If any christian tells us we Muslims are CRUEL in punishing, then state this verse to them. In fact, the bible also tells one to "PLUCK YOUR EYE OUT" if it sins!

ISLAM: Stripes for the one who is drunk - conditions apply.
CHRISTIANITY: The judge may order the unjust man to be STRIPED 40 TIMES (DEUTERONOMY 25:1-3)

ISLAM: Muslims pray by prostrating and putting forehead on the ground.
CHRISTIANITY: "Jesus fell on his face and prayed...(MATTHEW 26:39). The churches have even changed the way Jesus prayed!

ISLAM: Allows a male to marry more than one wife, up to four -- conditions apply.
CHRISTIANITY: -Abraham had 3 wives in the bible: Sarah, Hagar, and Keturah. (In book of GENESIS)
-Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. (1 KINGS 11:3)
-David had many wives (2 SAMUELS 5:13)
Nowhere in the bible does it forbid polygamy, or says that the male must marry one woman. Single marriage is a Greco-Roman tradition -- one of the many influences on the true teachings of Jesus. Jesus lived for 33 among a nation that practiced polygamy and he never prohibited, nor even ever talked about it in his teachings.

ISLAM: Islam gives religious freedom to worship God.

CHRISTIANITY: Do not PITY the apostate (someone who leaves his religion), KILL HIM (DEUTERONOMY 13:8,9)

ISLAM: Allows slavery -- conditions apply of course.
CHRISTIANITY: Allows slavery (LEVITICUS 25:46).

ISLAM: Cannot SELL your daughter.
CHRISTIANITY: You can sell your daughter (EXODUS 21:7)

ISLAM: Muslims cannot eat pig.
CHRISTIANITY: "Do not eat pig meat or touch their dead flesh" (LEVITICUS 1l:8)

Is there really anything the Christian (or Jew if verses are from the first 5 books of the Old Testament) can mock Islam about, that's not in their book? When they refute Islam, they are actually refuting their own bible!
"The birth of a daugher is a loss"(ECCLESIASTICUS 22:3).
Other interesting tid-bits:
_ PORNOGRAPHY (Genesis 35:22, Genesis 38:15-18, 2 Samuels 11:1, 2 Samuels 16:11-14, Eziekel 23:1-49, etc)
- "Noah drank wine, got DRUNK, and lay NAKED in his tent!" (GENESIS 9:21)
- "Sacrifice your ONLY SON" (GENESIS 22:2).
If any son could be called "only son," it could only be ISHMAEL, because he was born before Isaac!
- "The father is greater than I" (JOHN 14:28). Jesus is not God if the "father is greater."
- Jesus is called a PROPHET (LUKE 24:19)