Re: Why do muslims get offended?
Sounds like you want Muslims to assimilate into the culture of the minorities in their own countries.
where does that come from? Was any non-faster punished by Prophet PBUH, caliphs?
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
In a lot of places in India, Muslims can get into trouble if they slaughter cows for food. So there is an example of Muslims being restricted for something that goes against what the majority thinks in a given place.
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
Doesn't work that way, as I'm not suggesting that a ban on public eating be done as part and parcel of the religious ritual - I'm not offering up a new innovation, but simply supporting measures taken in order to make the public a "fasting-friendly" place. That is, cater to those who are religious, not to those who are not. That makes perfect sense in a Muslim society.
Note that I am not advocating that all non-fasters be hunted down and hounded. They can do whatever they want in their own homes.
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
Was this the practice of Rasoolullaah saw or of the Caliphs?
Why do we don't want to see anybody eating or drinking in front of us, too much of a temptation? No, i doubt, in our own houses mothers feed young children or we cook for someone who's been ill and cud not fast.
ANd afterall fasting is only between the person and Allah.
Hmmm, thats not a good behaviour.
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
I'll say it again. Restaurants do not remain open in Ramadhan, because it doesn't make logical or financial sense. In some cities, as I said earlier, restaurants do remain open for tourists because it is viable.
Why would a Pakistani in Karachi keep his restaurant open the whole day just because some people that are non Muslim might want to go come to eat? He will loose money and waste the entire day when he could be involved in worship
There is a very small minority of non Muslims in Pakistan, and their rights are not being infringed upon - they are still allowed to eat.
WaSalaam
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
When Northern Pakistan was hit by that devastating earthquake, they also had Ramadan. Aid agencies cooking food for the victims and their families were constantly harrassed by the local mullas for cooking and distributing food during fast which was in their opinion a violation of islamic principles.
Basic question raised needs to be answere, did the holy prophet espouse such limitations? There is no historical evidence to support that view, correct me if iam wrong.
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
Why would a Pakistani in Karachi keep his restaurant open the whole day just because some people that are non Muslim might want to go come to eat? He will loose money and waste the entire day when he could be involved in worship
There is a very small minority of non Muslims in Pakistan, and their rights are not being infringed upon - they are still allowed to eat.
WaSalaam
Not all Muslims fast for health reasons or simply because they cannot or do not wish to, should they then be forced to starve? What about the minorities living in Muslim countries? yes, respecting those who fast is understandable, but then what about respecting those with other religious values? Are muslims authorized by Allah to impose their will on others?
small minorities or large, they have rights and deserve the same respect we would expect when we travel to countries with non-muslim majorities.
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
small minorities or large, they have rights and deserve the same respect we would expect when we travel to countries with non-muslim majorities.
Again, they are not being forced to starve! I cannot speak for other cities, but in Karachi, some supermarkets that sell food remain open. The restaurants for which it will not make sense to remain open, will close.
I don't see why these restaurant owners should have non Muslims' will imposed on them by having to remain open....
In Toronto - on Easter Sunday everything is closed. I could complain and say "i don't celebrate this stupid holiday, I want to go eat! But these people are making me starve, because nothing remains open."
However many people on easter sunday don't want to go to work, they want to spend time with their families and go to church on this christian holiday.
My values are not being infringed upon. I have full knowledge that everthing will be closed, so If i want food, I should go buy it a few days before...
WaSalaam
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
It should be upto the business owners to decide. If they want to open their place. Great. A Mullah (or Mullahtic government) shouldn't be allowed to go and try to close that place down.
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
I agree...
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
You are comparing apples and oranges, though yes, cows are still slaughtered big time and beef is available even in almost all super markets, a Muslim wont' get in trouble for that... But yes
1. If you declare I am having cow meat openly - i.e. declare openly telling everybody that see you are fasting and I am mocking by eating... than you may be in trouble..
Though as I said, lets take this in another thread.....
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
You don't need to declare by saying anything. If you just do it in public, it's the same thing.
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
Yes, if you cut a cow in public in India, it will be taken as offence...
Not sure whether its same as discussion in this topic... as I said may be you have a point, that on this issues some Hindus are also sensitive. Start another thread on this... and may be we can figure out the if its the same thing.....
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
I think it's most of a personal expression than "the whole Muslim world" to get offended by someone who is during ramadan while other is fasting.
Why you ask?
Different people have different levels of tolerance, for example:
If I walked up 10 different people and called them SOB and out of 10, 2 are my close friends, their reaction to that will be different.
While some might laugh at me, other will call me some names back while I might get punched by few.
Does it means the people who laughed at me actually agree with my statment about them? I don't think so, they are most likely thinking I am either a nut job, someone who always talks like this or respect my thoughts but do not want to hurt me/my feeling by disagree to my statment.
The topic should be "Why some people get offended?" Because I sure can give you a list of things that can offend people and they take situation to as far as beating and (in some cases) killing people and it should be moved to General section of forums.
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
hey bud normally you are cool.
that was uncool as underlined above, what if people start calling "stupid or idiotic" the things which you hold sacred?
i dont have the reference but the gist is "you should not call bad names for false gods, because than you are giving a chance to other people to call names to Allah"
May God forgive me if I am wrong.
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
The topic should be "Why some people get offended?" Because I sure can give you a list of things that can offend people and they take situation to as far as beating and (in some cases) killing people and it should be moved to General section of forums.
I agree to you, all the people get offended by one thing or the other, why only muslims are being pointed out?
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
Why are you so worried about those who are weak of heart/faith and "fast"? Neither Allah swt demanded it nor Prophet Mohammed PBUH asked for it so why enforce a rule on public? We are supposed (optional, not mandatory) to respect the one who fasted (by not eating in front of them) , respect is earned, not demanded.
[quote]
Note that I am not advocating that all non-fasters be hunted down and hounded. They can do whatever they want in their own homes.
[/quote]
so your demand is just to shut down restaurants for that?
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
I wonder if it's against the Shariah to have restaurants open during the time in Ramadan.
There are many individuals who cannot fast for one reason or another.
What I see as a problem is the unnecessary intolerance that Muslims have generally embraced themselves with these days. It seems as though the solution to all problems is by either physically or verbally abusing the individual.
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
that was uncool as underlined above, what if people start calling "stupid or idiotic" the things which you hold sacred?
i dont have the reference but the gist is "you should not call bad names for false gods, because than you are giving a chance to other people to call names to Allah"
May God forgive me if I am wrong.
I was in character!!! (ie - I was using a hypothetical example of what someone might say) I obviously wouldn't actually say that.
WaSalaam
Re: Why do muslims get offended?
I'm not. My approach is simply taking a realistic look at how the public behaves, and what a govt could do to cater to their citizens.
Whatever one feels about fasting is between them and God. The public sphere in Muslim socities, however, is a shared space and so only one set of values can dominate. The idea that it would be pious to have public disrespect of Ramadan, and those fasting, is nonsense imho.
During the time of the Prophet (pbuh), there is no recorded tradition I know of where one was eating in front of Muslims while they were fasting. It can go either way, but the traditional paradigm of "enjoining what is right/prescribed" may apply. In any case, here we have a situation where the government could cater to non-fasters, or fasters. WHY should a Muslim government cater to non-fasters?