Is there any clearcut reason as to why Muhamamd left Makkah? Was he forced or was it a planned move and how do we know?
He had to leave makkah because the people living there became very hostile towards him. Since for him to stay alive was very important, he had to migrate to medina, where he was welcomed.
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*Originally posted by I'm Kool: *
He had to leave makkah because the people living there became very hostile towards him. Since for him to stay alive was very important, he had to migrate to medina, where he was welcomed.
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Dear I'm Kool,
Thank you for your kind response and may I ask, why makkans became hostile towards Muhammad and how do we know that that was the case? In other words, did Muhammad give any good reason to makkans to be hostile towards him ie did he provoke them, if so how?
Regards.
people in Mecca where rich and powerful. They made money from pilgrimidges. They would make idols and sell them a lot of trade for them. Muhammad (pbuh) preached against idol worship but to Allah only. Basically they where hostile due to financial reasons. I believe Muhammad left as somone was plotting his death but my knowledge is lacking on this topic.
^
he preached Oneness of God and the people of Mecca found that against their own beliefs and hence turned against him....
finding him firm on his words and continuous struggle to preach Oneness of Allah, they thought its better to kill him to end 'the threat' to their own belief and also the economic advantage they had by being the center of pilgrimage and the home of 360 idols which all arabs worshipped....
hence Allah ordered Muhammad (saw) to leave Mecca and head towards Medina, which was a more favorable place for Islam as Allah alone knew in His Infinite Wisdom....
Dear friends,
Thank you very much indeed for your kind replies.
I am trying to examine islamic story or if you like history to see if we can discover the true origin of the quran and islam. I think, there is a compelling need for discovering how islam actually came about and spread etc etc.
In my view, quran was not written by Muhammad alone but that he was a part of the group that wrote it and modified it as per needs of the time under the circumstances or situation.
I am of that view because no movement starts all of a sudden out of nothing rather it has a history behind it ie cause and effect chain or one thing leading to the next. Also no movement remains what it is intended by its original author/s rather as participants join in, the combined resultant force of the group decides its direction at each and every moment in its duration or life. Each person brings in into the movement his own personality and resources etc etc. that take the movement in the resultant direction or give it a new or modified perspective or outlook etc etc. Successful movements always change from simple to complex because as more and more people join in new problems surface that need solutions and that forces more and more complications into the whole thing.
Before Muhammad declared his messenger-ship of Allah, there must have arisen some circumstances that led him in that direction. For example, muhammad was an orphan, born in a poor household that his folks could not find for him even a good wet nurse, for that meant a healthy payment to the wet-nurse on muhammad’s behalf. Please read the story about daee halimah sa'dia when she comes to makkah looking for a baby to foster. The events in muhammad's life and in the lives of people who joined him in earlier makkan period must have affected the way they looked at the world. In other words their world view was conditioned by their circumstances and situations or life experiences.
As all movements have inventors, introducers and followers so did islam. Since people invent, introduce and follow movements because they want something out of them likewise the inventors of islam invented the movement for getting what they wanted out of it, the introducers had their own motives and the followers their own reasons. This is why it could not and cannot be a one man show.
By looking into the quran we see that Muhammad first uses so called earlier makkan suras as lectures to invite people to his religion which he does not name yet. All he asks people to do is, believe in god, hereafter (for judgement of god for reward or punishment) and do good ie feed the poor etc etc or face his wrath.
He condemns the rich (more likely than not) people in his own tribe perhaps because in his view they did not give enough attention to the needs of the poor. It could be interpreted as his possible reaction to his own neglect when he depended on their support at some stage in his life that had some lasting affect on his mind. The people who came to him were mostly slaves and other people of poor standing. May be other inventors of islam who were with him at the time also suffered the similar experiences and perhaps that is what brought them together. Poor people and slaves etc were already disillusioned with rich people so they had nothing to lose by listening to Muhammad (for they had an axe to grind against them) seeing that he is speaking for them.
Let us not buy into the islamic teaching and information or history without critically reading between the lines. You see dear friends, people like to portray themselves in the best possible light they can, in the sense they think would be reputable and beneficial for themselves. So muslim history written by muslims can be proven flawed therefore it is not perfect and if it is not perfect, we need to use our own tools and imagination to show where it is clearly wrong and where it might be wrong and so we can assume what might have been the truth. For example, muslims claim that the quran is word of god. Now we know that there is no proof for that. They claim that Muhammad was his messenger and again we have no proof for that either. If muslims can raise such serious claims as regard existence of god, his appointments of messengers and scriptures without any solid proof then why not about other things?
Since they have been doing such things, they must have a purpose in mind that motivated these people to do so or to raise false claims and do other wrong things. So the very same motivation could have influenced them to say and to do things that they thought would further their objectives according to their own understanding of the world and the people in it.
So my dear friends, we need to look at islamic history a bit critically so that you could realise the flaws in there.
According to islamic history;
1) Makkah was a great city ie it was of great religious significance as well as a central trade centre. Doing really well. The quran calls it Ummul qura= the mother of cities 28/57, 42/7, 43/31, 106/1-4 etc. This could not have happened if arab tribes were busy killing each other or that they were ignorant ie that is what muslims call people of that time. Infact they call is JAHILIYA period. It shows they were reasonably civilised people according the standard of their time.
2) People of Makkah were well known for their civility and trade and good relationship with people all around them hence they could travel anywhere into near about kingdoms etc freely. This again could not have happened if tribes were at war with each other. In that case all would have been frightened of each other not getting out of their own safe zones or may be even of their own homes.
3) Muhammad was not a wealthy or powerful man from amongst the makkan people, in the quran people say, why the quran was not revealed to people of some standing in the great cities 43/31?
This clearly means people were living peacefully and had good set up for their livelihood. This was the case before Muhammad started his mission. After He started, things went from bad to worse. Many lives were destroyed but for what? Why people turned against Muhammad? It could not be because of his preaching of monotheism, for such people were already living amongst the pagan Arabs in makkah eg qureshi tribe of his first wife (khadija) ie her family turned christian and nobody killed them nor even banished them instead they were successful businesses owning people, who employed members of Muhammad's family and even Muhammad himself. Not only that but we all know that the chriiitan missionaries are nothing less than muslim missionaries when it comes to trying to convert other to their religion. If nobody opposed christians for preaching their religion and some people of quresh even accepted their faith, why the hell anyone would bother when muhammad does the same? This is where islamic history has a serious flaw by telling us that Muhammad was thrown out of Makkah because he asked his people to believe in one god ie Allah. My point is that if Makkans were living happy with each other for generations, what changed after Muhammad started his mission that broke up these people into two enemy parties?
Could it be that Muhammad and some of his friends became jealous of other peoples' success and power etc and so planned to take over? See the quran, people did accuse him and other divine prophets before him of the same thing ie like them he wanted to be leader or chief of chiefs himself. We can see from the quran how Muhammad goes about condemning wealthy people and calms himself down by saying that good things of this life are only momentary. Such verses give us clues that Muhammad was envious of other people having things which he did not and so would like them for himself. There are a lot of verses in the quran about what I am saying here eg 2/13,137,142, 3/20, 6/50, 7/75,88,90,188, 10/31, 11/12,27,29,31-32,87-91, 15/88, 17/27,29, 18/46, 19/73-74, 25/5,8, 26/111,154, 27/45,47,49,56, 34/34-35,37,43,47, 40/26,37, 43/51,53, 46/11 and many many more verses.
The story goes something like, people are living a normal life in a place and suddenly a person stands up from their tribe who is not doing so well himself, telling them he has been chosen by god to lead them. He tells them about god and what he want them to do ie how they should live their lives according to this prophet’s teachings. Poor people follow him because they are simple and have axe to grind against their leading rich people but rich demand proofs which prophets fail to provide. Leaders know the game of the prophets but masses do not or perhaps they play along knowing not how things are going to turn out. After a while people turn on against each other and so fighting starts and continues till one of them over powers the other.
This is a very complex issue that needs ample time for explanation. My idea is that a person should raise a structure and see how everything else makes sense thereby rationally and scientifically. So that it helps us discover truth of the matter if at all possible. In the main it all comes down to power struggle within the people of same place. Each trying to use its ideas, tricks and practices as a tool to get at the other.
The main thing is that we need to see if what the quran tells us makes sense as regard, natural human behaviour, ideologies of the time and their political, social, cultural and economic systems, structures, setup and practices etc etc.
Regards and all the best.
It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to Makkah, “What a good land you are, and how dear you are to me. Were it not that my people drove me out from you, I would never have lived anywhere else.”
Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3926; classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi and by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 5536.
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*Originally posted by MMughal: *
In my view, quran was not written by Muhammad alone but that he was a part of the group that wrote it and modified it as per needs of the time under the circumstances or situation.
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actually this is not ur view....
Quran itself says....
Quran 25:4-5
*Those who disbelieve say: This is naught but a lie that he hath invented, and other folk have helped him with it, so that they have produced a slander and a lie.
And they say: Fables of the men of old which he hath had written down so that they are dictated to him morn and evening. *
so people like u had the similar view and Quran tells Muhammad (saw) to answer them....
Quran 25:6
*Say: "The (Qur'an) was sent down by Him who knows the mystery (that is) in the heavens and the earth: verily He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." *
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*Originally posted by MMughal: *
Could it be that Muhammad and some of his friends became jealous of other peoples' success and power etc and so planned to take over? See the quran, people did accuse him and other divine prophets before him of the same thing ie like them he wanted to be leader or chief of chiefs himself. We can see from the quran how Muhammad goes about condemning wealthy people and calms himself down by saying that good things of this life are only momentary. Such verses give us clues that Muhammad was envious of other people having things which he did not and so would like them for himself. There are a lot of verses in the quran about what I am saying here eg 2/13,137,142, 3/20, 6/50, 7/75,88,90,188, 10/31, 11/12,27,29,31-32,87-91, 15/88, 17/27,29, 18/46, 19/73-74, 25/5,8, 26/111,154, 27/45,47,49,56, 34/34-35,37,43,47, 40/26,37, 43/51,53, 46/11 and many many more verses.
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the tribes actually offered Muhammad (saw) to be their king and have all the wealth he wanted in exchange of stopping his preaching....
the prophet had a life of poverty and often went without food for days....
and that too when the muslims wud have given him all they had....
but he never wanted wealth or other material things....
so stop these stupid accusations....
and all those verses u have put down as examples, have u eevr read them even????
do u know what they talk of????
or a copy/paste from a muslim-bashing site was good enuff for u to just throw in the numbers here....
Asslamu Alaikum all Muslim Brothers and Sisters
And to Non-Muslims such as MMughal, etc... May Allah guide you all. Ameen.
O Muslims, Here we have another example of MMughal giving his own interpretation from his own sick and corrupted mind of the life of our Holy Prophet Muhammad (May the Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him). What MMughal gets out of attacking the teachings of Islam, Allah only knows. But rest assured, he is not the first and certainly isn't the last. MMughal my friend, May Allah guide you! Ameen!
One can read the quoted verses of the quran at the following link or for that many any other; sura no/verse no.
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The best evidence is that which is independent, muslims have no independent evidence whatsoever to support the islamic version of the story of origin of islam, quran or muhammad etc.
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The acceptable evidence is that which is rational eg free of conflicts within ie does not contradict itself and without ie does not contradict self evident facts when tested against them. The muslim story makes little or no sense when examined carefully. It contradicts logic, self evident facts as well as itself.
Any real evidence to support this? No. Anyone can make up any kind of stories to have others believe whatever anyone wants. A highly motivated person can do anything to get what he wants.
Also, it is quite possible that a person who has lived all his life in poverty from hand to mouth would have gotten into a routine. Even if such a person becomes rich and powerful, his life style may not be affected much in daily living. The quran tells that muhammad used to get 20% of the booty 8/1 etc. If a person did not want power and wealth at all, he has no reason to fight with people, in fact such a person has no reason even to live. Because living demands freedom from life threatening situations eg poverty etc. Even if nothing else, muhammad would have liked to get his hands on power and wealth to help the poor for whom he was very concerned whatever the reason. This much is very obvious from the ealier makkan suras of the quran. Ask yourself, why muslims want to get their hand on power today? Power matters and so does wealth because it is part of that power.
Having power and not using it for oneself is difficult anyway for a person who has been preaching almost all his life against wealthy people.
This is a brotherly discussing wherein we can try to figure things out because the way things have been told to us raise questions. We have a story and its characters and are trying see where it takes us the way it is told ie to fact or fiction, truth or falsehood. So any sensible contribution by anyone is very welcome and appreciated.
So dear friend, if you think I am mistaken please correct as best as you can. If what you say makes better sense to me I will have to accept it and that is no favour to you but to myself. For you will only be my sincere thanks.
Regards and all the best.
surely u did not expect the chinese and the romans to write down the history of Muhammad (saw)....
it had to be muslims, cuz he liveed among them....
sometimes u people think so narrow and say things so void of intelligence that one just seems to laugh at ur emptiness....
I don't think this thread is serving any purpose other than to allow MMughal a vehicle to paste his inane theories. Sorry man, you have to find another place to post garbage.
Jazak Allah Khair