Why did Hinduism never become an 'organised' religion like Christianity or Islam?

Hindus: An Alternative History
By Wendy Doniger

When the Romans (after converting to Christianity) and the Muslims conquered a big piece of the world, they needed religion to do it. But Hinduism could remain diverse because Indian rulers felt no need to build an empire beyond the sub-continent, says one of the world’s foremost scholars of Hinduism, Wendy Doniger, in her new book, The Hindus: An Alternative History. Seen in this light, the Hindutva project is a belated political enterprise aimed at homogenising the diversity of Hindu religious expressions and present a unitary front against Islam and Christianity, although that goes against the very essence of Hinduism, she tells *DNA *in an exclusive interview.

Why did Hinduism never become an ‘organised’ religion like Christianity or Islam? - dnaindia.com

What prompted you to write The Hindus: An Alternative History? Did it originate as a series of class lectures?
In a way, all of my books originate as class lectures; I find myself teaching a subject I’m interested in, and discover that none of the available books on the subject tell the students what I want them to know.For The Hindus, that feeling was intensified by the growing realisation that the things that were being said about Hinduism on the internet, particularly but not only by the Hindutva faction, needed to be counteracted by a view of Hindu history documented by reliable sources.

In what way is this book an ‘alternative history’?
It’s alternative to the internet/Hindutva version of Hindu history, but also to the standard, Orientalist, British version (all about Brahmins and Sanskrit), and it’s about alternative people – women and people of the lower castes.

Never powered an empire
Your book makes the point that ‘Hinduism’ has never been as ‘organised’ or ‘homogenous’ as the Semitic religions, such as Islam or Christianity. Why do you think this ‘homogenisation’ didn’t happen in the evolution of Hinduism?
I think Hinduism has developed in a world where there has always been intense, creative religious inquiry, which necessarily gives rise to a number of different myths and rituals. Hindus of any faction grew up in close interaction with Hindus of many other beliefs and practices. I think Hindus have also had from the time of the Rig Veda a conviction that there are always many answers to any question. And, finally, I think that those branches of Hinduism that do become rigid generally do so in the realm of praxis – you must not eat this or marry this person – rather than dogma – you must not believe this.

But what is it about Islam and Christianity that is different from Hinduism, which contributed to their homogenisation at an earlier date? Did politics contribute to it? If so, why didn’t political forces have the same effect on Hinduism?
The difference lies in their histories. The emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and the Romans then conquered a big piece of the world, and the Muslims also conquered a big piece of the world, but Indian rulers did not invade countries outside of the subcontinent. And while the forces that conquered the world used religion to do it, and made their religions into dogmas that could be governed from the imperialist center, with a centralised, standardised ideology, India in general, and Hinduism in particular, could afford to go on being diverse, since they didn’t need a political/religious creed to power the machines of empire.

How do you read the Hindutva project? Is it a belated attempt to ‘organise’ the diversity of Hindu religious expressions into a unitary faith modelled on the Semitic religions?
I think the attempt to make Hinduism a unitary religion like the Semitic religions began first with the British, who wanted to have just one thing to control, and then was picked up by the Hindu nationalists of the 19th century, who wanted to present a united front to the Christian missionaries. The Hindutva project inherits both of these traditions, as well as the desire to present a unitary front against Islam as well as Christianity.

Many believe that the Hindutva project to revive a homogenous Hinduism is born of an “inferiority complex” among the semi-westernised, middle- and upper-middle class Hindu nationalists, in relation to their colonial rulers.
British missionaries persuaded some of the upper caste Hindus of the 19th century that (Christianity’s) monotheism was superior to (Hinduism’s) polytheism, which is a kind of inferiority complex, I guess.This led to a tendency (still in evidence today in Hindutva rhetoric) among Hindus to insist that Hinduism is, in fact, monotheistic.

Coversions and Hinduism

Conversions (forced or otherwise) is a big issue in India today. Speaking for myself, as a Hindu, the idea of anyone ‘converting’ to Hinduism makes no sense to me. Can you throw some light on the historical background of conversions vis-à-vis Hindusim?
Christian attempts to convert Hindus to Christianity, as well as much less prevalent earlier Musim attempts to convert Hindus to Islam, led to a counter-movement of this sort in Hinduism. But most Hindus, the Hindus of the Vedic, Puranic, and village traditions, have never cared to convert anyone; you were born a Hindu or you weren’t, and that was that. I agree with you that for most Hindus, conversion makes no sense. Hinduism therefore, by and large, is not a proselytising religion as Buddhism, for instance, always was. However, some bhakti traditions and some Vedantic traditions became monotheistic and did try to convert people – primarily other Hindus – to their sort of Hinduism. But this is not at all the same thing as trying to convert Muslims or Christians to Hinduism (or back to Hinduism, as it is often claimed), as the contemporary Hindutva people do.

On Sita, you write, “she [Sita] is, like Shurpanaka, a highly sexual woman, a quality that may explain not only why Ravana desires her but also why he is able to carry her off.” Are you suggesting that she collaborated in her own kidnapping?
No, no, certainly Sita did not collaborate in her own kidnapping! But there was a belief, often expressed in the Puranas and parts of the Mahabharata and Ramayana, that a virtuous woman had a kind of aura that protected her from being touched by any man other than her husband; this actually worked, in part, to keep Ravana from forcing Sita into his bed when she was captive in Sri Lanka (though the Ramayana also goes out of its way to offer another explanation: Ravana had raped an apsara whose husband cursed Ravana that his head would split apart if he ever took another woman against her will. This seems to imply that Sita would not have been protected merely by her moral armour, and the author had to offer another explanation for the otherwise surprising fact that Ravana never did assault her, as he might have done). Moreover, Sita’s desire for the golden deer caused her to violate her husband’s command to remain within the protected area he had established for her. So I am saying that Sita was not an ascetic, was not totally in control of her emotions, and that was why Ravana could fool her.

**Are you aware that some Hindu academics in America have accused you of being a “Hinduphobe” and charged you with “out-of-context eroticising of Indian culture”?
**I sure do know that people keep quoting that remark about the Gita that was made up by some reporter for the Philadelphia Inquirer years and years ago and that I never said.Oh, do please try to set that record straight! There is nothing that I have ever said or written to suggest that I fear Hinduism, which is what Hinduphobe would mean, nor that I hate it, as I have been accused of doing. In answer to the accusation that I have eroticised Hinduism, I should point out that only a few of my 30-odd books deal with sex or eroticism at all; all the others deal with karma, evil, dreams, history, the laws of Manu, and a host of other things. It is my critics who are sex-obsessed, who pounce upon those aspects of my work that do treat erotic topics and ignore all the rest.

Tantra: Orientalist’s wet dream

You write that the Tantra tradition of Hinduism has undergone great distortions and become an “Orientalist’s wet dream.” Can you explain?
Well, one of the meanings of Orientalism is a view of the ‘Orient’ that is titillating and salacious, that assumes that ‘Orientals’ are all over-sexed, and so forth; views that I regard as stupid and politically driven, and that show a total lack of understanding of Hindu views of sexuality and eroticism. A wet dream is a sexual fantasy that excites the dreamer. So I think that the sort of Westerners who still hold Orientalist views of India find Tantra titillating in that way. I tried to show that the Tantric tradition in India is anything but titillating, that it has nothing at all to do with sexual excitement but is rather about sexual control and the creation of religious power.

Does New Age ‘Tantric Sex’ bear any relationship to what Tantra was supposed to be originally?
We don’t know what Tantra was supposed to be ‘originally’, but we do know what is said by the earliest Tantric texts that we have, and those texts bear no relationship at all to the doctrines of New Age ‘Tantric Sex.’

Re: Why did Hinduism never become an ‘organised’ religion like Christianity or Islam?

Very true :k:

Re: Why did Hinduism never become an 'organised' religion like Christianity or Islam?

Religion is not some political movement to grab power.. it's supposed to be one's personal strife and for this there is no need of organization or formal conversion .... herd count means nothing apropos religion

Re: Why did Hinduism never become an 'organised' religion like Christianity or Islam?

Well i am happy that my religion "is" organised :).
I like my room organised.
I like my street organised.
I like my city organised.
I like myself organised at work and I am happy that my religion is already organised but unfortunatly people still make a mess of the religion because of their selective adoption of the religion and their missuse for their own "politica" gains.

Re: Why did Hinduism never become an 'organised' religion like Christianity or Islam?

Whether my religion is `allegedly' unorganized or not ,I am an organized person and I am a firm believer of my religion and that makes it all. :)

Re: Why did Hinduism never become an 'organised' religion like Christianity or Islam?

Because they were smart.

Religion should be kept within the confines of your home and implemented in your behavior and benevolence towards others.

When you make it political and you start shoving it down everyone's throat by force just to conquer more land...it ruins it.

Re: Why did Hinduism never become an 'organised' religion like Christianity or Islam?

a hindu mentioned on TOI that there are 33 crore Gods & Goddesses. in the presences of so much gods and goddessess organisation, if not impossible than difficul atleast.

Re: Why did Hinduism never become an 'organised' religion like Christianity or Islam?

What Dan Brown has done with Christianity ... Wendy Doniger has done with Hinduism

Obvious gaps in scholarly discourse above show that the author believes monotheistic religions convert, but fails to realise that preaching ones faith is an aspect of "organised" religion and could not have been undertaken by the Hindus.

Also, the line of questioning in today's climate regarding preaching ones faith is always held in negative light. But to spread ones precious religion in wisdom and with no pressure is an act of charity and love. It is an invitation to be part and accepted.

Clearly in her own words Wendy is presenting a view to confuse. Why tell people about Hinduism - her version if she doesn't want herself to be followed in those views?

Thats BS !! There is just one God in Hinduism like in other religions. He is just worshipped in different forms (unlike other religions).

Hinduism is indeed monotheistic though it allows worshiping multiple deities . Krishna in "gita" says "Whatever deity or form a devotee worships, I make his or her faith steady. However, their wishes are only granted by Me alone".

Best commentary on this topic is written by al-beruni, an Islamic philosopher who visited India in 10th century. In his book al-hind ,he says Hindus believe in one god who is eternal.

w ww.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/digital/collections/cul/texts/ldpd_5949073_001/pages/ldpd_5949073_001_00000083.html

So it is wrong to say that inferiority complex among hindus lead to projecting hinduism as monothiestic.

Re: Why did Hinduism never become an 'organised' religion like Christianity or Islam?

Hinduism is a term coined by foreigners.

Hinduism is a mishmash of different contradicting religions, pagan-cults etc of South Asia like the local Dravidian religions, the imported Vedic Aryan religion...

Hinduism is not a religion, it's just a blanket term for a groups of religions, beleifs, traditions (rivaaj) and cultures practiced in South Asia. Not all classed as Hindu believe in the same values, same gods or same books.

Some are indeed monothiest, some polytheistic. The Hindus on here appear keen to appear as monothiests but a lot of Hindus still believe the devas were individual beings.

Re: Why did Hinduism never become an 'organised' religion like Christianity or Islam?

[quote]
The difference lies in their histories. The emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and the Romans then conquered a big piece of the world, and the Muslims also conquered a big piece of the world, but Indian rulers did not invade countries outside of the subcontinent. And while the forces that conquered the world used religion to do it, and made their religions into dogmas that could be governed from the imperialist center, with a centralised, standardised ideology, India in general, and Hinduism in particular, could afford to go on being diverse, since they didn't need a political/religious creed to power the machines of empire
[/quote]

Maybe because they weren't strong enough to counter the outside forces, it has nothing to do with the so-called "peacful nature" of Hinduism, Wars between the different South-Asian "Hindu" states always happened.

That's not entirely true. Though religion is one's personal choice; however, its' implementation becomes a way of life when you decide to become a faithful anything (whether it be Christian/Muslim/Hindu/Buddhist/Atheist/Jew). Religion, in its core, and specifically Islam is a complete way of life. It is not simply a ritual to be performed at convenient times as a matter of routine to satisfy the inner urgings. It requires a overhaul of priorities, and way of life, and if done right will make you a complete human who lives upto his/her full potential while serving the humanity, thus becoming an example and ambassador of the faith. i.e. Prophet Muhammad and companions for Islam. Buddha for Buddhism, Jesus for Christianity/Islam, Moses for Judaism/Islam, and so on...

You are right however, often folks who are meant to be conveying the message of religion, instead turn to "use" it for their personal agendas and worldly gains which then leads to the mislabeling of the good name of the religion which they still pretend to preach, not realizing they've gone far from its teaching the moment they sought to use it for anything other than to gain pleasure of the Supreme Creator, the One God.

An organized religion is a community at-large, and it is a beautiful thing to have when every member of this community fully understands his/her role, knows his/her faith and its origins, and wills to live according to it, and work within the bounds of humanity for the sake of earning everlasting pleasure of God and be victor in the hereafter. I believe an organized religion in itself is never a bad thing, but when bad elements of any organized religion becomes its voice and are seen to be its leaders, then the community as a whole is in trouble because suddenly their so-called "representative" is the worst of their kind according to their own teachings, and thus projects a negative image of the religion itself to all others.

Re: Why did Hinduism never become an ‘organised’ religion like Christianity or Islam?

a) Nosherwan is the most correct poster in this thread. Giving Hindus brownie points for not expanding beyond their boundaries (how did they get those boundaries?) assumes they didnt try and fail.
b) Though the question of monotheism is besides the point, it is incorrect to say “BS! There is just one God in Hinduism!”. No, there is just one God in one, arguably revisionist, version of Hinduism.It can be monotheist, but there can also be no conception of a single divine God.
c) Organization is not a bad thing. We prefer organization in other aspects of life, there is no reason to dislike it in matters of religion. This is like anarchists disliking “organized politics” because of government excesses.

Hindus on this forum can confirm this…one of the main reasons Hindus never ventured beyond what was called Hindustan or Bharat…


it was their religion that forbade Hindus from crossing oceans…


One of my fellow workers a Hindu from the Brahmin Caste when he returned home to Bombay after finishing his studies was stopped outside his home by his Mother, She only let him in after the Mali (Grounds Keeper) had totally drenched him with a garden hose…to purify him because he had crossed oceans!


I know it does not seem to matter anymore because travelling by Air you do not have to go through water…:slight_smile:



Re: Why did Hinduism never become an 'organised' religion like Christianity or Islam?

^ Not true - Hindu Kings have crossed oceans and gone to what is now Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia & Ceylon etc.

Re: Why did Hinduism never become an 'organised' religion like Christianity or Islam?

^Yes yes yes yes yes yes.................... :)

Cambodia....................... who can forget Angkorwat?The largest Hindu temple is not in India either........Its in Combodia..................

Bali is predominantly a Hindu Island :)

I don't think it's because of religion / superstition. It was/is just not in their mettle. Simple

True - there was no attempt made to spread Hinduism by sword unlike Islam/Christianity.

I can't see the lower castes in South Asia wanting to embrace Hinduism of their own free will.

Hinduism was brought to India and enforced upon the locals and mixed with local traditions/beliefs/religions.

Hindu fanatics can reject the Aryan invasion theory all they like but the truth remains...