The question raised in an All View Thread about children of Qom e Lut.
Though for me the first thought was God knows better and he is not cruel and I also replied that the nation was provided opportunity to know what was right by the Prophet and when they didn’t follow they had to face the consequences.
Any thoughts, why children and other people who are not involved in sin became part of azaab that came for sinners?
Re: Why children of disobident nations were killed?
I read an article on this topic by Sh. Abdal Hakim Murad (T.J. Winter) recently and posted some quotes in my blog. I’ll post the related quotes here.
"Allah has names of Beauty: the Compassionate, the Merciful, the Gentle, and many others. But He also has Names of Rigour: the Overwhelming, the Just, the Avenger. The world in which we live exists as the interaction and the manifestation of all of the divine attributes. Hence it is a place of ease and of hardship, of joy and of sorrow. It has to be this way: a world in which there was only ease could not be a place in which we can discover ourselves to be true human beings. It is only by experiencing hardship, and loss, and bereavement, and disease, that we rise above our egos, and show that we can live for others, and for principles, rather than only for ourselves.A feature of this world, this dunya, is therefore the existence of catastrophe. Sometimes this catastrophe takes the form of a test: in which case it may be a gift. At other times, however, it may take the form of a punishment. The dunya is, as the athar states, ‘the prison of the believer, and the paradise of the kafir.’ But sometimes Allah’s anger at the repeated and scornful denial of His signs can lead to a sudden snatching away of the delights of this world.One of the early Muslims said:
‘Know that when one of Allah’s servants sins against Him, He deals with him leniently. Should he sin again, He conceals this for him. But should he don its garments, then Allah conceives against him such wrath as the very heavens and the earth could not compass, neither the mountains, the trees, nor the animals; what man could then withstand such wrath?’ One of the purposes of the Qur’an is to explain to us the risks involved in rejecting the will of Allah. If we obey our Creator, and respect His attributes, and emulate those attributes to the extent and in the way that is appropriate for us, we become like Adam and Hawwa, upon them be peace. We are restored to the fitra, to the primordial norm of our species. And we gain our designed place as Allah’s khalifas over the natural order."…
"A number of hadiths indicate ways in which specific forms of the rejection of Allah’s providence can make us vulnerable to breakdowns in the system of protection which Allah has built into the cosmos. One of these, whose applicability has become painfully obvious in the last two decades, is narrated by Imam Malik, and refers to the consequences of the rejection of normal, Sunna practices of marriage and reproduction:
[INDENT]
‘Never does sexual immorality appear among a people, to the extent that they make it public, without there appearing amongst them plagues and agonies unknown to their forefathers.’
With perhaps a hundred thousand people in the United Kingdom carrying the HIV virus, an infection with particularly hideous consequences, the warning could not be more clear. It is not that AIDS is a punishment for consuming drugs or for sex outside marriage: that is too crude a view. Instead, the hadith indicates that the Sunna is a protection for our kind, which preserves us from breakdowns in the body’s defence systems. And any student of medicine will be aware of the extraordinary complexity of the human immune system: the titanic battles fought between pathogens and antibodies throughout our lives, in every cell of our bodies. To the extent that we deny the Sunna, we unbalance that system, and catastrophe follows.Individual human beings can open themselves up to tragedy in this way. Sometimes, when misfortune strikes, it is not easy to see whether it is a trial from Allah, or a chastisement, or simply the consequence of violating the natural way which is the Sunna. Sometimes it is a combination of these things. But it is not only individuals to whom calamities may come. Whole human collectivities are also at risk."…
You can read the full article here.
Abdal-Hakim Murad - Contentions 8[/INDENT]
Re: Why children of disobident nations were killed?
This is a good lecture on this topic.
Re: Why children of disobident nations were killed?
Thanks hareem for sharing this. while I'll go through it in detail, the first line 'Allah has names of Beauty: the Compassionate, the Merciful, the Gentle, and many others. But He also has Names of Rigour: the Overwhelming, the Just, the Avenger.' also came to my mind when I faced and thought of the question... He is Rehman o Raheem and also Qahhar o Jabbar....
When we read Surah e Ikhlas it says 'Allah o Samad- Allah is independent and carefree'... but again I remembered some Hadees that He loves His makhlooq 70 times more than a mother. Besides, He likes His names Rehman o Raheem more than Jabbar o Qahhar as we have Bismillah e Rehman e Rahim and not Bismillah e Qahhar o Jabbar.
Re: Why children of disobident nations were killed?
Thanks hareem for sharing this. while I'll go through it in detail, the first line 'Allah has names of Beauty: the Compassionate, the Merciful, the Gentle, and many others. But He also has Names of Rigour: the Overwhelming, the Just, the Avenger.' also came to my mind when I faced and thought of the question... He is Rehman o Raheem and also Qahhar o Jabbar....
When we read Surah e Ikhlas it says 'Allah o Samad- Allah is independent and carefree'... but again I remembered some Hadees that He loves His makhlooq 70 times more than a mother. Besides, He likes His names Rehman o Raheem more than Jabbar o Qahhar as we have Bismillah e Rehman e Rahim and not Bismillah e Qahhar o Jabbar.
True. That's why Prophet (PBUH) used to pray, " I seek Your protection from You".
Re: Why children of disobident nations were killed?
great thread.:k:
Re: Why children of disobident nations were killed?
True. That's why Prophet (PBUH) used to pray, " I seek Your protection from You".
There is also another name of Allah 'Hakeem - Wise or insightful'. He possess the insights, creatures can never reach. If we refer to incident of Hazrat Moosa (AS) and Hazrat Khidhr (AS) mentioned in Surah e Kahaf, we knew that even the Prophet of the God was not aware of the insights behind some action taken by Hazrat Khidhr (AS) on the order of God. There was also an incident where Khidra (AS) kills a child and Hazrat Moosa condemns this action. Later Hazrat Moosa (AS) was told:
'and as for the boy, his parents were believers, and we feard that he would overburdened them with by transgression and disbelief. So we intended that their Lord should substitute them for one better than him in purity and nearer to mercy' 18:80 & 18:81
Re: Why children of disobident nations were killed?
1) Those who do not stop or speak out about the wrongdoers are shareholders in their wrong doing.
2) If the children were left alive they would have no parents to look after them
3) Those children would be sinless and receive their expiation in the hereafter
Allah (SWT) does as He Wills
Read Al-Khidr kills a child for no apparent reason ... But he does this because he has knowledge of what will happen in that child's future ... And he was instructed to do that ... Alahisalam.
Re: Why children of disobident nations were killed?
And indeed We punished the people of Pharaoh with years of drought and shortness of fruits, that they might take heed. [7:130]
We are forgetful and unthankful. Some of the bitter experiences in life at many time awaken people or leave behind a lesson for those who are awake to take heed from. One minor example in context of what you have said could be is that if I am negligent towards my child and then once day I were to witness a car accident killing a child then that might prompt me to review my relation with my own child, i.e. a hidden lesson for many in what is a tragic event.
And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little.[17:85]
What seems bad to us at times is not bad when thought about in larger context. For example, a poisionous fish from sea or a thorn next to beautiful rose might seem like a bad idea to us but in larger design of life they are proven to serve their 'good' function.
Re: Why children of disobident nations were killed?
What seems bad to us at times is not bad when thought about in larger context. For example, a poisionous fish from sea or a thorn next to a rose might seem like a bad idea to us but in larger design of life they are proven to serve their 'good' function.
That rose her face so beautiful, her hijab is equally offensive ... like thorns in our eyes. Lest a beast come from the dirt, what a blessing for her are those thorns?
The Bible says that God works in mysterious ways ... What should be said here is that God Wills what is good ... It may not appear like that to us because we are focussing on a particular detail.
Re: Why children of disobident nations were killed?
A related hadith from Imam Mohammad al Baqir.
Restored attachments:
Re: Why children of disobident nations were killed?
well said paglu, its very easy for a believer to grab this concept. What about who need to follow worldly logic in all matters. can they be convinced with any other example / reasoning?
Re: Why children of disobident nations were killed?
Therefore (for) whomsoever Allah intends that He would guide him aright, He expands his breast for Islam...[6:125]
I think, if asked, it is best to explain your POV -hopefully it is one with roots from Quran and from Prophet- in as clear manner as we can. Because if we try to amend concepts to fit into a certain frame of our choice then I think we are operating on shaky grounds. In that way, even if the other person is impressed from our answer, we are not leaving behind with him/her a very good precedent.
If we believe Quran and Prophet saww to be the most powerful sources of guidance then it is more than worth a try to stick close to them in order to guide somebody, for they are the guides for the whole MANKIND, “Lo! this Qur'an guides to that which is most upright". [17:9]
Or if scope of the question from a non-believer is just to seek logical explaination of the scenario of say Prophet Lut then I do not know how that is possible. From my understanding rational proofs are what lead you to God but once you have reached the point of identifying the Creator of rationality itself then you do not question but you submit (notice the verses of Quran in this light where they are motivating a person to probe, question, and observe signs to reach God but once you are there then that is the end of probing and starts the stage of 'submitting'). Prophet Ibrahim's story from Quran highlights this particular topic with examples.
Re: Why children of disobident nations were killed?
Therefore (for) whomsoever Allah intends that He would guide him aright, He expands his breast for Islam...[6:125]
I think, if asked, it is best to explain your POV -hopefully it is one with roots from Quran and from Prophet- in as clear manner as we can. Because if we try to amend concepts to fit into a certain frame of our choice then I think we are operating on shaky grounds. In that way, even if the other person is impressed from our answer, we are not leaving behind with him/her a very good precedent.
If we believe Quran and Prophet saww to be the most powerful sources of guidance then it is more than worth a try to stick close to them in order to guide somebody, for they are the guides for the whole MANKIND, “Lo! this Qur'an guides to that which is most upright". [17:9]
Or if scope of the question from a non-believer is just to seek logical explaination of the scenario of say Prophet Lut then I do not know how that is possible. From my understanding rational proofs are what lead you to God but once you have reached the point of identifying the Creator of rationality itself then you do not question but you submit (notice the verses of Quran in this light where they are motivating a person to probe, question, and observe signs to reach God but once you are there then that is the end of probing and starts the stage of 'submitting'). Prophet Ibrahim's story from Quran highlights this particular topic with examples.
exactly, but being Nafs e Mutmai'nna is not anybody's jurisdiction. I also said in that discussion in another thread, when we accept that Quran is a word of God and we believe in what is written in Quran, then if we face a situation where we have to follow an order where we don't get / reach the logic, then submission is the better policy ' Janene se ziada manena zaroori hai'.
But a group raises their eyebrow and call this approach an unquestionable dogma, which is not the case.. as we know that there just few Mutashabihaat (verses which got unclear meaning) as compared to Muhakkmaat ( clear verses). Islam doesn't restrict from asking question, it is the religion which encourages thinking over the universe and raise queries about it.
