I can understand democracies such as India, US having to go through a number of checks and balances before they can take drastic steps. What is stopping the military government in Pakistan to just go round up all the terrorists and incarcerate them in Jihadabad or some such place? Let them have their full fledged caliphate or whatever it is they want inside there.
Surely the military is mightier than the terrorists?
Re: Why can't the military round up all the Jihadis?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
I can understand democracies such as India, US having to go through a number of checks and balances before they can take drastic steps. What is stopping the military government in Pakistan to just go round up all the terrorists and incarcerate them in Jihadabad or some such place? Let them have their full fledged caliphate or whatever it is they want inside there.
Surely the military is mightier than the terrorists?
[/QUOTE]
well Tom, democracies do take drastic steps too. the military and secret tribunals, the folks who were kept in custody for quite some time are an example of that. I am not starting a debate on whether or not these drastic steps are good/bad/right/wrong but just pointing out that democracies do take drastic steps as well.
so maybe we should talk about failures of governments to control such groups from operationg in their countries, crossing out of their countries, crossing into their countries etc etc.
Re: Why can't the military round up all the Jihadis?
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*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
I can understand democracies such as India, US
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Man this shows how much u love sucking on gora chamri. You guys always blame PAK but if we look at the reality it seems you u indian are obsessed by the US :)
Re: Why can't the military round up all the Jihadis?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
I can understand democracies such as India, US having to go through a number of checks and balances before they can take drastic steps. What is stopping the military government in Pakistan to just go round up all the terrorists and incarcerate them in Jihadabad or some such place? Let them have their full fledged caliphate or whatever it is they want inside there.
Surely the military is mightier than the terrorists?
[/QUOTE]
There are differences in case scenarios all over. In Pakistans case, the govt isnt pitted against a separatist movement, or one with a totally different ideology. Religion is not the dividing issue here....rather the interpretation of it is. That point makes it more difficult, and delicate, for the government to just go ahead and do it.
Just like you would never see the Israeli govt going against the extreme zionists with full force, you will never see the Pakistani govt (whether military or civilian) to do it against extreme muslims. That would risk a civil war.
And its not difficult to accept the fact that the current Pakistani government, though semi-military in nature, is largely different compared to past military governments, and does have a system of checks and balances in place, though limited in nature, and not entirely democratic yet....but its a start.
Re: Re: Why can't the military round up all the Jihadis?
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*Originally posted by teaser: *
Man this shows how much u love sucking on gora chamri. You guys always blame PAK but if we look at the reality it seems you u indian are obsessed by the US :)
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Common, you know better than that!
Re: Re: Why can't the military round up all the Jihadis?
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*Originally posted by Akif: *
Just like you would never see the Israeli govt going against the extreme zionists with full force, you will never see the Pakistani govt (whether military or civilian) to do it against extreme muslims. That would risk a civil war.
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Excellent point. But this is the very core dilemma that I think a dictatorship is better equipped to handle than a democracy.
For probably the first time in pakistan's history one man has the support of a large faction of people and control of the military. You'be got a general who knows how to (not always when though) to charm the press, how to play the game with the likes of Bush. Granted he doesn't have a second (which imo is one of pakistan's top 3 problems). If he misses this chance who knows when again?
[QUOTE]
And its not difficult to accept the fact that the current Pakistani government, though semi-military in nature, is largely different compared to past military governments, and does have a system of checks and balances in place, though limited in nature, and not entirely democratic yet....but its a start.
[/QUOTE]
Again great point. This dictatorship does look different. But that I think is in terms of the "tolerate press to a point" policy rather than checks and balances.
Firstly sawyer, stop saying 'jihadis'... Jihad is a concept of Islam, and being a hindu you have no clue what it really means, so dont come upto us Muslims and ask us to undermine our religious concepts, you will end up with a middle finger.
Until the Kashmir dispute remains unsolved, you will have to deal with these 'freedom fighters' (aptly put).
mr Tom
Its absolutely malicious on your part to use the word jihadis becasuse you must know that the military are also muslims who know that jihad is a holy war carried out by muslims against injustice so if you ask the muslim military to ac against jihadis then they should first act against themselves.
as far as your talk of democracy is concerned then you must read your own american history your great leaders were also terrorising the british rulers about 200 yrs back. and your version of democracy may be suiting your culture so please dont try to impose your ideas on us
as far as india is concerned indian democracy is the type of democracy hitler used to slaughter jews
even hitler was elected to power by the germans it was also a democracy.
Re: Re: Re: Why can't the military round up all the Jihadis?
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*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
..this is the very core dilemma that I think a dictatorship is better equipped to handle than a democracy...
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It's about time the Indian military took over power in India and replaced the Muslim Burning Hinduvta leadership.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Why can’t the military round up all the Jihadis?
Spock, Kabir: I use the term jihadis because the terrorism across the world as we have seen in the recent past is being done under that name. I used to think that the are terrorists misusing that notion and the term but after seeing the number of mosques and Imams and mullahs repeatedly call for "jihad against americans" how can I not come to this conclusion? The pakistan govt, military and isi etc recruit terrorists to send to Kashmir and Afganistan in the name of jihad. The Hamas gang straps bombs to innocent kids in the name of jihad. And you want us non-muslims to ignore all that because the term jihad had holy meaning.
Be that as it may, I will try and not use that term as a synonim for terorism since it may hurt the feelings of those peace loving muslims.
2b, if you have a point make it. Or if you can only blow hot air, your own jihad.
BTW, while none of you had the answer to the question, looks like your Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayat did have some answer:
Click to see how Hayat answered this question. .
Excerpts, if you’re in a hurry:
talking to our correspondent Ihtashamul Haq Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayat confirmed that France, Germany, and UK had also decided to offer substantial financial and technical support to Pakistan for combating terrorism unleashed by the Al Qaeda network
He was asked to respond to the frequently levelled allegation that the CIA and FBI were independently conducting operations in Pakistan against terrorists and those who were wanted by the US government. He replied thus: “People should know that Pakistan alone cannot get hold of terrorists and we have to have the support of the Americans to achieve the desired results.”
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*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
Spock, Kabir: I use the term jihadis because the terrorism across the world as we have seen in the recent past is being done under that name.
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World? You mean bharat.
No it is and I mean world
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*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
2b, if you have a point make it.
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Tom/Matsui, Harvard educated guppy, I did. Read my reply again:
Originally posted by TomSawyer:
It's about time the Indian military took over power in India and replaced the Muslim Burning Hinduvta leadership.
^ that will never happhen, In India military reports to the wishes of the people not the otherway around. Tom does have a valid point. No one calls them jihadis but they themselves. Jihadis killing people in Phillipines, India, CHina, US, Europe, Indonesia, Africa, etc.. would constitute "world", I would think.
Rounding up all these jihadis isn't a simple matter...otherwise India or Israel could have done it in their own countries by now. For that matter all these countires need to curb their regressive elements wheteher they are jihadis, Shiv Sainiks or gun-toting rabbis.