Re: Why at all?
sem: come again?
tell me, what did the christians think of the jews? and vice versa?
a lil different? i dont think so.
Re: Why at all?
I believe what Semi is saying is that Islam believes that it is more advanced, better and improved relative to christianity and judaism. This creates a different paradigm from (for example) how christianity views Islam, which is as a “false religion” with “mis-guided” followers.
The difference is subtle, but it creates (in muslims) a feeling of superiority over other religions… regardless of the “facts on the ground”.
Re: Why at all?
Christianity grew out of judiasm and includes Jewish scripture. Jesus was a Jewish scholar who lived his life based on the Torah. The two part ways only in the divinity of Christ.
It was not Jews or Christians that started Islam, I suppose that's why Muslims believe the original Abrahamic religions to be corrupt.
Re: Why at all?
I'm no religious scholar, but isn't the thrust of Friedman's statement related to a belief among Muslims that Islam is the final revision of the same program? In other words, Judaism was WORD 1.0, Christianity WORD 2.0 and Islam WORD 3.0. The Quaran being the final record of the message that had already been given to Abraham, Jesus, and other earlier prophets.
Before Muhammad, future Muslims would be Christians relying upon the teachings of the New Testament. Before Jesus, future Muslims would have been Jews relying upon the teachings of the Old Testament. Thus, the belief would be that Islam subsumed the other religions.
People of every religion, of course, think that they have it right. What Friedman is saying, I think, is that it must be particularly galling to people who claim ** evolutionary ** religious superiority over jews and christians to find that they predominantly live an existence in hellholes all around the world. It's tough to look at the religious equivalent of their neanderthal ancestors reaping all the fruits of comfort, wealth, technological advancement, leisure, POWER, etc. This state of events is difficult to stomach when you believe all that you are given and all that is given to others is given by Allah.
Re: Why at all?
Yup Ma, I believe Islam is just as legit as christianity, as judaism, as hinduism and Red Soxism. It is all the same. Which part of that equation are you having trouble with? aray hindi mein bol doon?
Re: Why at all?
I think that is why many Muslims put their stock in an afterlife full of carnal and material pleasures. Since their rewards are seemingly not in this world, surely their reward will come after death. Heaven must hold a much more special place and many seem eager to get there by means that are foreign to most.
Re: Why at all?
^ Just go through the multitudes of threads here on GS. The belief of some ill perceived superiority, against every facet of reality presented of Islam vis-a-vis other faiths is the daily mantra. When facing the concepts of illogical and anachronistic tenets that overeach a changing and ever evolving human condition, the rigidity of Islam (or as Friedman puts it Sunni Islam-there are many versions) just doesn;t stand up to the claims of universality and finality of religious virtues as spouted by the would be muslim luminati.
It is a bitter pill I suppose....when faced with the reality that Allah and Vishnu might be the same.
Re: Why at all?
MV, good analysis. Here is a fallacy of this logic, a true muslim also believes that Allah only gives you what you strive for. He also knows that if you do not follow your religion, you are not going to get rewarded, either in this world or after. If these were muslims who knew what Islam is, they will not be in a state of conflict.
I see it this way, when muslims (myself included) move away from the basic tenants of islam and ignore the message given to us by Muhammad:saw: we are only going to increase our sorrows. The only way out/up is through Islam. It has to start with each individual; with a basic character check. We will have to start from zero, tell the truth, be honest, keep your word (For God’s sake our prophet was known as Saddiq Ameen). We must teach our young about Haqooq-il-Ibad (Rights of other creations of God over us including mankind). It is paramount that we teach this conecpt to our young an old. We must make them understand that Allah may forgive Huqooq allah but he will not forgive huqooq-il-Ibad.
P.S. I dont necessarily agree with Friedman article, however, its close to what I think is the reason behind muslim youth becoming suicide bombers and terrorists.
Re: Why at all?
^ actually the people who did this also think of themselves as true muslims and would treat you like you were not one. So how do you reconcile with that Kaleem? They feel they have a bette pulse on what Allah wants. they hold the quran in one hand and an ak47 in the other. Just by parroting they are not muslims, doesn;t make it so. They say the same thing about you.
Re: Why at all?
Doesn’t this, in some ways, add even more to Friedman’s argument? Don’t kaffirs only get what Allah gives them or what Allah let’s them have? So you’ve got some devoutly religious fundamentalist Muslim praying right and left to Allah, trying to work his tail off and he can’t feed his family, he has no political freedom, and he has little hope for his kids. He sees (or hears of) non-believers getting fat, drinking beer and sitting in an air conditioned room watching a football game or prancing around on a beach with scantilly clad beautiful women.
The Muslim strives for so much, worships Allah coorectly and has nothing while the kaffir appears the lazy *ss who blasphemes Allah every day by the way he lives and has all the rewards. This simply must appear as injustice. Either Allah is unjust or the lazy kaffir is. Certainly the devout will not blame Allah. It is much easier to blame and hate the kaffir.
Re: Why at all?
worse than that PD is the fact that many “moderate muslims”, I’ve found, have trouble difficulty applying the “non-muslim” label to these murderers. They had the right intentions after all, right? Who are we to say their actions are haram, it’s for Allah to decide.
Re: Why at all?
^ it comes down to wht Bernard Lewis said..the failure of the muslim world to capture a piece of the growing knowledge and capital base in full view of the gains made by lesser people (as considered by their God) leads to two questions. Both are now resulting in lashing out that non-muslims. "Why us?" because even the kaffirs of China and India are moving on to better lives for their people (must be the most disgusting of thoughts considering hinduism is 0.0 on the religion scale ) and "Who did this to us?" Must be someone else to blame.
Re: Why at all?
Interestingly, individuals with unloving and/or inattentive parents end up with these same traits.
Re: Why at all?
we are children of Brahma Stu. .. 
he loves us all equally.
Re: Why at all?
"brahma stu" that makes me hungry for lunch...
Re: Why at all?
Go with God and have a burger. Beef is halal..
Re: Why at all?
hahaha.. heres the fallacy in your geopolitical gospel that is friedman. while Muslims do believe that our religion is superior to other faiths in the eyes of Allah (as did the old lady in pittsburgh who asked me to grasp christ before im damned), you would agree that a lot of Muslims who eventually became suicide bombers grew up in Pakistan, where we are taught a great deal of dignified stuff about our position in the world. we wrenched half of kashmir from India in 48 even though we didnt have any weaponry and they were armed to the teeth, and we would've taken the whole damn thing if it wasnt for the UN. we handed India's ass to it in 65, kicked them out when they were hell bent on having tea in lahore. we're taught that we were handing India's ass in 71, until the evil bengalis came along, we're taught that we kicked russia out of afghanistan (not the afghanis themselves), we're taught that kargil was militarily a triumph and a political betrayal. by and large, a Pakistani grows up with the notion that we have been unilaterally kicking ass for the past 50 years. and a large part of his kicking ass has to do with the fact that Allah is on his side. if anything, suicide bombers are assured a bit too much of their current superman status, based on potential half truths.
while thomas friedman may have spent a lot of time researching the state of the Muslim world, i doubt the average Muslim reads friedman or cares about his existence. Friedman is of no relevance, and has a very faint grasp on what the psychology of the bomber would be.
heres what you do. you obviously have a 'camp' chosen. you wish to rationalise things in a way that does not cast any blame towards yourselves. its the mentality of the fat guy who blames mcdonalds for too much advertisements. when ordinary theories such as those that fit in palestine dont fit anymore in a broader context, you invent another theory to argue for why suicide bombings happen now.. all directed towards one end. maintain your cushy belief in everything being al-right at your end, its the stupid bomber's religion thats at fault.
which is fine, but please dont pretend that this time round your theory is any more accurate than the previous ones.
Re: Why at all?
Who ever believes that notion to be unique to Muslims is the biggest buffoon in the world, even more so then the porky porn moustache sporting fictitious anecdote compiling fool who is delusional enough to think he has gathered some empirical evidence to substantiate his preposterous claims…Ask any follower of a given religion and they will tell you that their religion is superior to others…
Re: Why at all?
^ case in point.. 
Oh who did this to us..why us…who can we blow up… 
Re: Why at all?
That’s true. Maybe you don’t read too good. Maybe you just don’t comprehend well.
The thing about the Jews is that they can point to the existence of Israel and the development of a modern state and compare it with the blessing Allah has given to the Muslim world or the Palestinians and the Jews can point to something tangible to support their belief in their religious superiority and the fact that they have chosen the “right” god or, rather, that the “right” god has chosen them.
Likewise, the christians can point to their wealth, power and world dominance and say, “see, God is good and we must have chosen the right god. Look at the blessing he has given us.”
Millions upon millions of Muslims living in some repressive hellhole must face the the question from their hungry and dirty children every day: “Why has Allah given the kaffir so much and given us so little?” If it’s not their children asking them that, it’s them asking themselves. And it’s just not in human nature for people to blame themselves or to blame God for their poor lot in life.