Why are matters of faith beyond discussion?

Some very interesting points covered by this article…

Why are matters of faith beyond discussion? - Blogs - DAWN.COM

As I was leaving for Britain for the first time, many years ago, one of the Imams that I had held various discussions with, advised me:

“Baita there is a class of people who do not believe in any god. Do not hold a discussion with them, ever!”

“But why?,” I asked.

Maulvi sahib explained his rationale: “Because they can potentially diminish your faith with their illogical and audacious questions.”

To that I couldn’t help but retort: “Are you so uncertain of the strength of my faith? What if I were able to endow a better understanding of Islam upon them and thus bring them a notch closer to my own religion?”

Maulvi sahib did not have an answer. I took that as a sign that he had understood the logical fallacy in his argument.

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Thereafter, I spent years abroad, and had countless arguments with my ‘atheist friends’, returning a ‘ghazi’ nevertheless.

The apprehension of the Imam Sahib however, was not a sole occurrence. This dilemma prevails within Muslims by and large.

Take for instance the much derided Satanic Verses by Rushdie — whose venom was testified to by Ayatollah of Iran — alleging that it had the potential to damage the faith of Muslim society.

I had the fortune (or misfortune rather, given its opaque metaphors and stale story line), to read the book.

Guess what, I am still as much a Muslim as I was before reading the book.

In the same vein, one of the fundamental lessons debaters are taught is that there are two ways of polishing an argument: looking at it from eleven different angles, or holding the same discussion at eleven different instances.

By the end of it, one is left with the bare truth which can be discussed, argued or defended at any platform. Conviction of one’s arguments comes as an accompanying advantage.

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Herein lies the critical problem ailing Muslim society – we are afraid of discourse; frightened that our faith may desert us; terrified that we may become influenced by the rhetoric ‘emanating from other quarters’.

It is invariably this refusal to indulge in discussion which prevents us from becoming more reasonable in our own arguments.

This has resulted in most practicing Muslims in our part of the world becoming ignorant to the very ethos of religion. Principles are sacrificed for the sake of literal interpretations; pride and ego remain high despite the uncovering of ankles; the beard is guarded but modesty is not; and ablution is performed five times a day but the streets are ‘religiously’ littered with rubbish.

I have had the chance to make acquaintance of at least three Europeans who converted to Islam in the recent years, after they did their own fair amount of research. Let me assure you, they are far better at following the principles of Islam than most born-Muslims, who consider themselves entitled to all the blessings of the world for their faith despite knowing virtually nothing about it.

Bear in mind, the lack of discussion does not just breed ignorant Muslims, it also gives birth to a violent class as well.

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If Islam were a religion of mindless compliance, it would not have emphasised discernment so much; the concept of Ijtihad, is the idea of Muslims being an enlightened nation, aware of the teachings they are expected to follow and the rationale behind each.

The following verse of Iqbal acknowledges faith as being beyond the understandable, but still implies that faith is a journey that has to be traversed through reason.

Guzar ja aqal se agay k yeh noor, Chiragh e rah hai manzil nahi hai

[Translation: Move on and beyond reason, for reason is the torch for this journey but not the destination.]

One is compelled into reiterating the same point ever so often: A more modern approach to the understanding of religion needs to be undertaken. Aversion to discussion should be shunned, even on topics as controversial as blasphemy laws.

A progressive society can well defend its ideologies, a regressive one is reduced to the annals of history.

The choice is ours.

Re: Why are matters of faith beyond discussion?

Right wing religious groups, having mastered the art of deception are the first to recognize the potential for turning the tables. Hence the Maulvi's concern. he's afraid someone else will pull the same tricks.

Re: Why are matters of faith beyond discussion?

The problem is not that one cannot refute arguments made against Islam based on logic, the real concern is that most Muslims are not knowledgeable enough to do so since they have not spend time mastering the logic required. Thus, if such individuals get into such debates, they will be lead astray.

It is a rule that you first learn, then teach or debate. Unfortunately, today we have individuals who think mere schooling is enough to debate any issue that comes their way. Such individuals are in for a rude awakening and will learn the hard way that when you debate without knowledge you only put your faith at stake.

Re: Why are matters of faith beyond discussion?

one of the names of Holy quran is al burhan which means clear evidence. majority of mullah in sub-continent and small group of sufis in arab don't permit their follower to read quran with translation and understanding. thus mullah is turning our strength into weekness. these mullah use quran for secterian stuff and interpretations.

Re: Why are matters of faith beyond discussion?

In actual fact the Maulvi Sahib was right ... :)

In Islam we hear about the Sahabah (RA) shutting themselves off from listening to certain people to protect themselves from the fitna.

It is not about losing cognitive conviction - the author of the article and many people here are mistaking this ... It is about losing oneself in composure, attitude, and focus on Allah (SWT) and RasoolAllah (SAW) - from a position of being drowned in love to a different position of being critical and entertaining critical argumentation. From a position of giving others compassion to a different position of pushing them away, keeping them at arms length and sleeves rolled poised to argue with logic ... it is not about winning or the fear of losing which is why we are advised not to engage - it is because we lose part of ourselves - our characters and focus by ENGAGING in argumentation per se. If a person wants to learn they will not try to catch you out debate style ...

The response given to the maulvi - and the notion that he went quiet - he did not do so necessarily because he "saw the fallacy in his argument" that is an arrogant conclusion - he could have gone quiet because he was showing the other person that it is helpful simply "not to engage" ... so he didn't.

Of course modernity has different pressures on us ... But this is the real basis behind this ... ethos of not engaging in debate - it takes the spirituality out of the soul ... I can vouch for the truth in this ... As many logical arguments I may win here - my soul always loses out - I get a tired and weak heart and I only have my "superior logic" to comfort me ... If I didn't argue then I would not be soul beaten ... and that is what it is about ... If a person is poised to argue with me and I beat him intellectually - no way will he decide to soften and choose to contradict his hurt ego ... The argument of the article writer is false ... Our job is not to convince people nor to show how strong their arguments are logically - simply to give them a message and show them how much we love it ... If they want a share of it - they are invited if they want to brow beat us over some details - send them away or move away yourselves ... this is the essence of the wisdom in what the maulvi sahib was saying here ...

Re: Why are matters of faith beyond discussion?

Others stipulate you need to learn 15 sciences before you can read the Quran or else you will be "misguided."

Re: Why are matters of faith beyond discussion?

^ exactly. "misguided": one reading quran with understanding could challenge their taqleed.

Re: Why are matters of faith beyond discussion?

There is no wrong is wanting to shield from certain discussions. As for the need to reach out and engage in discussions, absolutely it should be done. But with who exactly? Those whose only purpose and desire is to ridicule, question, deny, and in the process call your faith all sorts of names and give its components ill descriptions, or those who are sincere and may benefit from the discussion at hand? I'd go with those who are sincere and may benefit from exchange of even a smile, let alone a word or more. It's a personal choice, and while you can choose to engage any and all, it doesn't elevate you or me and lower the other muslim(s) who choose whom he/she engages with.

Our job is not to convince anyone. Our job is to convey the message, provide a direction, and hope it benefits. Messengers (may peace and blessings be upon them all) were sent with the same exact mission, that is to convey the message, give glad tidings if people accept the message, and warn them if people do not accept the message. We are all the messengers of Messengers (may peace and blessings be upon them all), and our accountability may be on the fact whether we ourselves acted according to the faith we claim to adhere to, and if we conveyed the message forward.

In the course of debating matters of the faith, people have a habit of pulling in everything cultural, individual choice, misguided action, and everything else under the sun and to try pass it off as all a part of the faith. It is not. An honest discussion first needs a good dissection to separate what is Faith vs. everything that is not. The discussion can then be had on the purely faith portion, and perhaps a separate discussion on the "everything else" portion. We're all too quick to judge the faith by its' followers, when instead it should be the other way around because divine message is the measure tool and people are measured according to it, not the other way around. Unless of course like I said, the entire purpose of engagement is to do circular ridiculing just for the sake of ridiculing.