Why afganistan is NOT AN ISLAMIC STATE?

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

From what i read on this site everyone seems to think that Afganistan is a islamic state. Lets examine if it really is one or implements bits and bobs(even those a bit out of order).

1:To be an islamic state,it has to be for all muslims regardless of the race, nationality etc. The Taliban call it the islamic emirate of afganistan,and they say that it is only for afgan muslims.

2:They ask help from the Kaffir The U.N and united states,Britain and they respect international law.

3:They say that the problems of kashmir,palestine,chechnya are of no concern to them. why do they not go and liberate palestine,kashmir if they claim to be an islamic state surley they must have an ruler and army that is not afraid of the west.

4:why did they have negotions with the murderous russains over gas pipelines.

5: Why have they not got the correct ruling structure i.e Caliph,caliph assistants etc.

6: why do they not convey the dawah to the rest of the world.

7:why is it a police state. allowing no one to speak against the rulers.And the laws they implement they are way out of order.
forcing men to grow beards,the social system of islam is to stop free mixing not to exclude women,(women are allowed to show thier face in public according to sharaih),banning techonlogy(whats that going to achieve),

8:Why are they fighting between themselves(muslim brothers)

9:An country cannot claim to be islamic country by just implemting a few rules but by ruling by the whole of islam(and the correct one). This means in brief that to have one caliph,one ummah and one deen.and to implement all of islam e.g The ruling structure,the social system, the economic system,the education system, the forign policy of islam etc,the judicary system etc.

[This message has been edited by mean machine naseem (edited February 27, 2001).]

2

…waiting for YB’s reply.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.

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1:To be an islamic state,it has to be for all muslims regardless of the race, nationality etc. The Taliban call it the islamic emirate of afganistan,and they say that it is only for afgan muslims.

Please give me reference on when they said that before making any false allegations.

BTW what do you have to say about hundreds of Saudis/Yemenis/Iraqis/Pakistani (none Pashtoon) and Kashmiries in Afghan that are there and who fought against Russia during the war? To prove my point farther, most of these people are called Arab-Afghans in the Middle East.

Guess you don’t know that much about Afghanistan do you?

2:They ask help from the Kaffir The U.N and united states, Britain and they respect international law.

Tell me which Muslim country doesn’t ask?

3:They say that the problems of kashmir,palestine,chechnya are of no concern to them. why do they not go and liberate palestine,kashmir if they claim to be an islamic state surley they must have an ruler and army that is not afraid of the west.

How do you want them to get there, Horseback riding? About Chechnya get your info straight first please.

Taliban offered them men few months ago, which was all over the news because the western couldn’t believe the courage of Taliban, and many still do help Chechnya in Jihad.

4:why did they have negotions with the murderous russains over gas pipelines.

Get me reference on that too plz. But probably to get some money rolling in the country. At least they didn’t ask them for support in war or weapons like the opposition did to kill there own Muslim brothers.

BTW people Blame Taliban for killing other Muslims, what do you guys have to say for the Opposition?

5: Why have they not got the correct ruling structure i.e Caliph,caliph assistants etc.

Just wait till the other 5% is taken over, then you can bring it up.

Farther more I don’t know what you mean by that statement.

6: why do they not convey the dawah to the rest of the world.

What dawah?

7:why is it a police state. allowing no one to speak against the rulers.And the laws they implement they are way out of order.
forcing men to grow beards,the social system of islam is to stop free mixing not to exclude women, (women are allowed to show thier face in public according to sharaih),banning techonlogy (whats that going to achieve),

Banning of T.V. etc. was done because the idiots at Rawa kept on signaling absurd propaganda about Taliban 24/7.

Covering women from head to toes (Burqa) is cultural and has nothing to do with Islam.

8:Why are they fighting between themselves (muslim brothers)

Why don’t you ask the same question from the opposition?

My answer to this question regarding Taliban on this matter is in the thread Fatwa on Taliban. Plz do check it out.

9:An country cannot claim to be islamic country by just implemting a few rules but by ruling by the whole of islam(and the correct one). This means in brief that to have one caliph,one ummah and one deen.and to implement all of islam e.g The ruling structure,the social system, the economic system,the education system, the forign policy of islam etc,the judicary system etc.

Which one of these is not being practiced in Afghanistan?

Anyway, your argument was crooked and it took me only 5 mins to answer because no ever could or can put on a tough debate about Taliban concerning Islamic laws.

Best thing for you guys to do is give up, or you can carry on and look more stupid.

Salaam

p.s> Watcher hope your happy. Take it easy or hard, but make sure you take it. :--)

We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior

[This message has been edited by yOuNgBrAt (edited February 27, 2001).]

4

YOU take it easy my friend.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited February 28, 2001).]

5

.**

Bro.the mere fact that they call it the united emirates of afghanistan,shows that it is for the muslims of afghanistan only and they also recognise imaginary borders which are no more than lines draw on maps to disunite the muslims by the kaffir.Yeah there are muslims from all over the world living there but they probally settle there during the war.The point is that do the taleban let any muslim who has not got a visa?passport or not a mujahid go and live there? and are they trying to unite all the muslim lands?

And the proof of this is that a delegation of the "Hizb-ut-tharir" from pakistan went to the taliban and asked them to join them in thier work to eatablish a state. THe taliban reply was "go this is the united emirates of afghanistan,it is of no concern to you what we do and we have no concern of what you do, this is the land of afghans"
(the reply was like this cant remember the exact reply, but should be able to get it for you).

If everyone is asking help from the west it does not make it right because Allah(swt) says: AND DO NOT ASK HELP FROM THE KAFFIR,VERILY THEY ARE YOU ENEMIES.WHAT THEY CLAIM OPENLY IS WORSE BUT WHAT THEY CONCEAL IS FAR WORSER (quranic ayat, get the ref later)

The are hundreds of jihadi organisations so do we say that they have an islamic state as well?

O.k is it allright to talk to the person who is responsible for killing thousands of muslims as long as it is for money?

Sorry it was not the russain but the jew kaffar Islam Kramov of Uzebikstan that held talks with taleban. THe talk was about the taliban saying that it does not interfere with other countries internal affairs.(hardly the forign policy of an islamic state)
And also the Taliban said that they will give up osama bin laden provided that the U.S.A does not label them as terrosits and recoginise them as the officail ruling party. what to do have to say for these points.
Oh yaeh whats all this stuff about the oppostion? explain what u mean and who is BWT

To be an islamic state, obviously it must have the same structure as at the time of the prophet(saw).

Dont you know what dawah is??

Nice of you to mention that Burqa is cultural,in the west its cultural for women not to cover.So whats the difference? none i.e both are man made laws.Islam requires that you implement islam alone and nothing else(nothing from cultures,traditions etc).
Techonolgy is powerful if used in the right way, obiviously the taliban have got no brains to figure out how to do that.

9:An country cannot claim to be islamic country by just implemting a few rules but by ruling by the whole of islam(and the correct one). This means in brief that to have one caliph,one ummah and one deen.and to implement all of islam e.g The ruling structure,the social system, the economic system,the education system, the forign policy of islam etc,the judicary system etc.

So where shall i start, first of all it has not got the islamic ruling structure, the ummah dont have the authority,the islamic economic system is not caplists economic system minus riba, but has its own blueprint, the forign policy of islam is to convey the dawah to the rest of the world(talibans is that we dont interfer with other countries affairs), the correct social system(not one of cultural), the judicary system as a whole is not implement but bits and bobs(is there a judge who can account the ruler?),is the islamic educational system applied? (where male and female both have the right to seek education),the list is endless.

Anyway in your opinion i suppose Saudia Arabia,Iran,Sudan are islamic states.Hang on isnt there supposed to be ONLY ONE ISLAMIC STATE.

Yaeh i may not put up a good argument but iam sure there are THOUSANDS who can.

Salam

[This message has been edited by mean machine naseem (edited March 01, 2001).]

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what an islamic state really is;

Under Islam, the Khalifah’s role is that of taking care of the affairs of the Ummah internally and externally. This is done through the political system that Islam dictates i.e. that which Allah (swt) has ordained to be implemented upon the land. The carrying of da’wa to the rest of the world also falls under the authority of the Khalifah. Both of the acts – establishing the Shar’a and carrying of the da’wa to the world are matters which the Khalifah supervises. It is not permissible for anyone else to take on these roles.

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Some extra information from the shariah(not someones mind)

As it is the Khalifah’s role to convey the da’wa to the world, he must also hold the position of Amir of Jihad. The Khalifah’s supervises the creation and preparation of the army. He supervises but does not undertake its administration nor decide upon its training and technical issues.

The Khalifah’s control of the carrying of this da’wa has a specific method – Jihad. This is where the army comes in. The army itself has no place in deciding the foreign policy that is to be implemented. Since the foreign policy is to carry Islam to the world, the Islamic State is in a perpetual state of jihad. This requires an army that is ready at all times to be deployed in all conditions, in all lands, and with the very latest technology. Technology that will be used to implement the foreign policy of Islam. The army requires people who have a strong understanding of the military strength of other nations, their preparation for war, their overall threat to the Islamic State. Hence the army is the pillar of the State’s foreign policy. Unfocused, this power can pose a considerable threat to the foreign policy of the State.

Military considerations should not be dominant on the foreign policy. Neither should it have any influence in the foreign policy. This is the role of the politician. This is not to say that the army cannot put forward an opinion in a matter. However, it remains just that – an opinion. It is the Khalifah and his political advisors who hold the responsibility of understanding world opinion; the political manoeuvrings by the enemy and the overall effect of the State’s activities on the enemy.

The military mind is trained to be subjective and devoid of a comprehensive political outlook. Military matters on the whole tend to be tangible and quantifiable – numbers of soldiers, range of weapons, area of land etc. All of these issues can be assessed and effects understood. The political thought is not so easily quantifiable. The military mind is not trained to be considerate of the current political climate. To rule effectively the highest consideration should be given to the instilling of Iman and Islamic inclinations. Imagine if the Battle of Badr was taken purely on a quantifiable basis. The mind devoid of the concept that “Allah grants the victory”, would never engage in a battle where the army is outnumbered 3 to 1, or in the battle of Uhud 4 to 1.

History as shown all too painfully to us how the influence of the Military in the foreign policy of the State led to the demise of the carrying of Islam to the world. The examples of Pakistan, Indonesia and Nigeria are recent events that we can relate to since the collapse of the State. However, the influence of the army can be seen when the Muslim army pushed no further than the opening of Spain, and when they stopped their opening of Byzantine land at Turkey. This was all due to the military’s influence in dominating the State’s foreign policy through it’s strategic outlook on actions – devoid of the political as well as spiritual view that the aqeeda dictates in the formation of foreign policy. Remember 1990 when Iraq entered Kuwait. This is a prime example of how a military regime lacked the political awareness of the time, hence did not foresee the subsequent reaction from the international community. Looking further back, note how the Ottoman Khilafah consisted skilled strategists conquering vast amounts of land, to the extent that they reached France. However they lacked the understanding of the importance of consolidating the thoughts and ideas of the people of those lands - in order to enrich them with the Islamic sentiments that would carry through to their forthcoming generations. Without instilling the concept of accountability to Allah, the State will require an iron fist approach to keeping order. This ruling with a heavy hand can lead to the birth of a police state scenario where the people fear the heavy hand of the law rather than live in harmony based upon Taqwa, and their correct understanding of life’s objective as a Muslim.

This lack of vision and understanding led the army to be vulnerable to the politicians of the enemy. They were less well equipped to notice the covert way in which the actions of the enemy introduced dangerous thoughts into the society. The embassies of foreign countries present during the Ottoman Khilafah and the various news agencies that sprang up pushed kufr ideas in to the Muslim’s minds. These ideas were instrumental in the demise of the State.

DO THE TALEBAN HAVE THE ABOVE METHOD???

Khilafah - The Need of the Time www.khilafah.com.pk

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Here it goes nothing. Yup nothing…..

Bro.the mere fact that they call it the united emirates of afghanistan,shows that it is for the muslims of afghanistan only and they also recognise imaginary borders which are no more than lines draw on maps to disunite the muslims by the kaffir.Yeah there are muslims from all over the world living there but they probally settle there during the war.

United Emirate of Afghanistan because the county is called Afghanistan. What would you like it to be called?

Border lines? They don’t even recognize the duran line what are you talking about?

The point is that do the taleban let any muslim who has not got a visa? passport or not a mujahid go and live there? and are they trying to unite all the muslim lands?

How are they going to unite Muslim lands when people like you cant live with out a TV VCR (technology for you

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

)?

Who else besides a Mujahid will want to live in current Afghanistan? You? I don’t think so. So please don’t ask ridiculous questions.

And the proof of this is that a delegation of the “Hizb-ut-tharir” from pakistan went to the taliban and asked them to join them in thier work to eatablish a state. The taliban reply was “go this is the united emirates of afghanistan,it is of no concern to you what we do and we have no concern of what you do, this is the land of afghans”
(the reply was like this cant remember the exact reply, but should be able to get it for you).

Well never heard of that in life before, but why will Taliban leave Afghanistan and join Hizb-ut-tharir?

Did Hizb-ut-tharir helped them in war? I don’t think so.

If everyone is asking help from the west it does not make it right because Allah(swt) says: AND DO NOT ASK HELP FROM THE KAFFIR,VERILY THEY ARE YOU ENEMIES.WHAT THEY CLAIM OPENLY IS WORSE BUT WHAT THEY CONCEAL IS FAR WORSER (quranic ayat, get the ref later)

True but when your own muslim brothers close their doors on you because the Kaffirs said so then what choice do you have?

And do get me a ref. But I don’t think you be able to do that either.

The are hundreds of jihadi organisations so do we say that they have an islamic state as well?

They will if most of the hypocrites wake up and smell the coffee.

O.k is it allright to talk to the person who is responsible for killing thousands of muslims as long as it is for money? Sorry it was not the russain but the jew kaffar Islam Kramov of Uzebikstan that held talks with taleban. THe talk was about the taliban saying that it does not interfere with other countries internal affairs.(hardly the forign policy of an islamic state) And also the Taliban said that they will give up osama bin laden provided that the U.S.A does not label them as terrosits and recoginise them as the officail ruling party. what to do have to say for these points. Oh yaeh whats all this stuff about the oppostion? explain what u mean and who is BWT

Yeah they don’t intervene in other country affairs so what’s the problem here?

btw who did Nawaz hug? A kaffir right? And who are the Arab talking for peace with? Jews right? Kaffirs right?

To be an islamic state, obviously it must have the same structure as at the time of the prophet(saw).
Dont you know what dawah is??

It will be if you let it be. They are still in the middle of a civil war and the country has been through so much.
Why are you asking such rediclous questions anyway? Doesn’t make sense.

Afghanistan is almost like a desert there are no houses most of em are camps. Will you send a dawah to someone when you have no roof on top of your head and are in the middle of a civil war?

Nice of you to mention that Burqa is cultural,in the west its cultural for women not to cover.So whats the difference? none i.e both are man made laws. Islam requires that you implement islam alone and nothing else(nothing from cultures,traditions etc).

Did you ever read the part in Quran where it’s stated that Islam is for all races and tribes? I don’t think so.

Techonolgy is powerful if used in the right way, obiviously the taliban have got no brains to figure out how to do that.

What technology are you talking about? Radios/ TV/VCR? Unfortunately you can’t live with out them but they sure can.

So stop worrying and try to make a better example of your selves. Take a look at Karachi and Lahor and tell me what’s the difference between those cities and Bombay of India?

**An country cannot claim to be islamic country by just implemting a few rules but by ruling by the whole of islam (and the correct one). This means in brief that to have one caliph,o ne ummah and one deen.and to implement all of islam e.g The ruling structure, the social system, the economic system, the education system, the forign policy of islam etc,the judicary system etc. **

All of that takes time, which the Taliban have never gotten. You can’t expect a child of war to come out of it as a doctor because he saw lot of body parts. It takes time. Just like it took 40 years for the beloved Prophet (pbuh) to get a complete Quran from Allah (swt). You should at least understand that, it doesn’t take a genius to figure that out.

The Taliban didn’t even get 2 years that they asked from the Muslim world to make things better. Instead people like you started pointing fingers at them and supported RAWA. What a Hypocrisy!

So where shall i start, first of all it has not got the islamic ruling structure,

Yeah right, and how is that so? Please provide facts.

the ummah dont have the authority,

What authority? Authority of what? The west? The Jews? They don’t need your Authority to do anything. They have the authority of Allah (swt).

the islamic economic system is not caplists economic system minus riba, but has its own blueprint, the forign policy of islam is to convey the dawah to the rest of the world (talibans is that we dont interfer with other countries affairs),

They don’t even have a well establish economy and you are talking about a system? Haha…….

the correct social system(not one of cultural), the judicary system as a whole is not implement but bits and bobs(is there a judge who can account the ruler?),

Not one Judge but many Islamic Scholars. Social system? Which country don’t have a social system which is not based on their culture? Ridiculous!

is the islamic educational system applied? (where male and female both have the right to seek education),the list is endless.

Yes they have. You don’t know much at all do you? Please I will suggest you visit www.taleban.com if you really are concern.

Anyway in your opinion i suppose Saudia Arabia,Iran,Sudan are islamic states.Hang on isnt there supposed to be ONLY ONE ISLAMIC STATE.

Yeah and why don’t you ask that from them? They aren’t helping either. Isn’t Pakistan one too, or suppose to be one?

Yaeh i may not put up a good argument but I am sure there are THOUSANDS who can.

That is very true indeed. You have not, and don’t expect me to answer more of your ridiculous questions. I didn’t want to answer it because like others I could have ignored you (I guess I had a lot of free time) since you can’t provide any facts but mere absurd crap that you get from ‘know it all’ (know jack) people/friends etc….

Ps. Do send the thousands here, let them get a slice of this too. :slight_smile:

We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior

9

Watchy, I think I answered your questions already. ;-)

We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior

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see.. the problem is..
we have a lot of KNOW IT ALL's on this board, and no one is willing to listen to an argument objectively and then decide if it makes any sense.

the amount of discussions taking place on gupshup and has anyones views been altered for the better?

i don't think so.. we come here to argue. not learn

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Are you saying then that we reject all the Taleban are doing and look elsewhere? Wake up and look around you, this is the best we got.

And as for there only being one Islamic State, inshallah there will be, but at the moment we're lucky enough to be implementing Shariah somewhere..

And what's with all this 'All or Nothing' view you guys have about an Islamic State? Wake up guys, these things don't just happen overnight.

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[quote]
Originally posted by mean machine naseem:**
3:They say that the problems of kashmir,palestine,chechnya are of no concern to them. why do they not go and liberate palestine,kashmir if they claim to be an islamic state surley they must have an ruler and army that is not afraid of the west.**
[/quote]

They are not strong enough.You can't reasonably ask them to liberate the islamic world.They have no such islamic obligation.The only obligation is to give help which I think they do.
**

[quote]
4:why did they have negotions with the murderous russains over gas pipelines.**
[/quote]

So what?The prophet(pbuh) had dealings with the jews.
**

[quote]

5: Why have they not got the correct ruling structure i.e Caliph,caliph assistants etc.
**
[/quote]

Made up this ruling structure yourself,have you??
Is this structure anywhere in the Quran or the Hadith and Sunnah,the only two true sources of Islam??I don't think so!If I am wrong please tell me where it is??
**

[quote]

6: why do they not convey the dawah to the rest of the world.**
[/quote]

You are asking too much too early!Maybe they will once they are able to fix thier own lives into order.
**

[quote]

7:why is it a police state. allowing no one to speak against the rulers.And the laws they implement they are way out of order.
forcing men to grow beards,the social system of islam is to stop free mixing not to exclude women,(women are allowed to show thier face in public according to sharaih),banning techonlogy(whats that going to achieve),**
[/quote]

Yeah I think they have some problems there.But then they claim they have reasons for these.Now where is YOUR islamic concept of 'husn-e-zan???
**

[quote]

8:Why are they fighting between themselves(muslim brothers)**
[/quote]

Sad to see.Infact the entire afghan story is.

And finally,

[quote]

mean machine naseem said:
2:They ask help from the Kaffir The U.N and united states,Britain and they respect international law.
yOuNgBraT said:
Tell me which Muslim country doesn’t ask?
The Watcher said:
Comment: But Taliban claim to be on ISLAM, they shouldn't be asking kafirs for help. Other Muslim countries do not have Islamic rule of law in the land.
[/quote]

However you are all forgetting that there is nothing wrong with doing that in the first place.The prophet asked Najashi for help.Kuffars of Makkah gave asylum(panah)to the prophet(pbuh)and other muslim at different times.A muslim can ask a non-muslim for help if he can't get it from muslims.
And BTW the U.N. is not non-muslim or kaffir!!It is a world body of which the entire muslim Ummah is a member!Talk about ignorance.Huh!!

[This message has been edited by Ahmed (edited March 02, 2001).]

13

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by yOuNgBrAt:
**Here it goes nothing. Yup nothing…..

United Emirate of Afghanistan because the county is called Afghanistan. What would you like it to be called?

AN ISLAMIC STATE, FOR ALL MUSLIMS

Border lines? They don’t even recognize the duran line what are you talking about?

ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT? Uzebikistan is muslim land, so why do the taleban say they do want to interfer with them.

The non-muslims run in thier masses to the islamic state in the past, to get away from their corrurpt countries.

I answer the rest later.

14

No, I want a dedicated reply to my questions.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

PS: I think, I will change my alliance with Taliban.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

**And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.