Trust me u will have plenty of sleepless nights on your challenge but i will continue if and only if u aswer me in something else apart from "b'coz the Glorius Quran says so" or Allah hu Akbar" which is all Hareem01 has been doing to dodge my questions
More on this tomorrow I am not at home I am in Goa in a cybercafe
Hareem I have plenty of asnwers for u too dont worry bro u are not gonna get any sleep for the ext few days
Hareem bhai, this have forgottent htat the day MOhammed peace and blessing be upon him was born, people have been having sleepless nights so its 1400 years till now. They have been finding questions we have been answering, tell me what do you mean by cybercafe. Even if you sit in front of us by the will of Allaah, we will still answer.
Truth will still be spoken to falsify, falsehood.
Quran, Geeta… Bible n blah.. blah.. these all r man-made things n i’ve spoken so many times on this forum… i dont believe in all these man-made things. People who cant recoganize the real God (Peace + Love + nature) only they run after all these n spend their whole life on these things and remain confused till the day of their death. Atleast i dont need all these n dont want too :Dn im sure when u’ll come to know about wot actually is real god then u’ll also not run after all these. If u cant keep yourself happy u cant keep others too… try to find out the real spirit of life instead of these things… otherwise u’ll always remain …
Hah all cr*p,
no one in India hates muslims
1>thats exactly why India's Muslim Population is larger than the whole population of Pakistan
2>during partition india's muslim population was 2% now it's 20%... what's your take on the hindu population then and now in Pakistan?
3>BJP and RSS were not created/present during partition they came into existence much later
4>the **HISTORY **of indo-pak divide?!!
son u really need a course in history... a certain Mr Quaid-e-azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah declared that "we shall have a divided India or a destroyed India" in a press conference in bombay in 1946
have u heard of direct action day? please do a google on this I would like u to get Time magazine and other neutral (read american/european) reports on this it was 16th August 1946 that Jinnah ordered "peaceful" Muslims to burn, pillage, loot, and rape Hindus in Muslim majority province of undivided Bengal
The reason? Jinnah said that he wants Pakistan as undivided India has 33% muslims and they will be opressed by the Congress party....So would a 50% or lets say a 100% stake in the govt be ok for these "opressed" muslims?Note here that he did not ecen ask here for a 33% reservation of seats in parliament
Son u need to brush up on history infact it was Muslim armies who repeatedly attacked and tried to capture the holiest of sikh temples at amritsar but our Valiant sikh brothers did not budge
remember sikhs did not attack Mecca, muslims attacked amritsar...
one more take on "Islam religion of peace"
So wasim bhai u are contemplating suicide?!! hah pls be realistic
as with regards to u saying u will answer my questions u are welcome to try Hareem01 did, failed miserably and Finally quoted the Legendary "because the Quran says so"
(Hareem01 I did not realise u were of the fairer sex, I do apologise to u as my language will be toned down now, i thought this was a bunch of guys out for some kicks)
Again Hareem01 u have disapppointed me thouroughly where do u see me say I hate Muslims as u have quoted, not in the least, all that is happening here is that i am simply asking u to justify the things that U CLAIM are divine in Islam by not using "because the Quran says so" as your standard issue ammunition
moreover I am only using critique here but u are losing your temper and that is the most well known sign of defeat
more over the Irony is u expect your questions and allegations about hinduism to be answered and when u get some of the same in return u cry foul... this was the same pattern I saw in your behaviour on the thread that was deleted... u had no answers then, u have NONE now
Lets take a look at all u have alleged against me on this thread and I'm **sure **u will **not **have any answers here either apart from BQSS (because Quran says so)
Are we ready Hareem01 and yo_wasim
ok all that is in Italics is what u have posted...
Here we go...
1> (a)I believe Vedas have **elements* of divine origins.
(b)Yes
(c)Now do you believe your own scriptures enough to accept the prophecy of Muhammad[saw] ?*
Ok Muhammad had Elements of divinity
2>
*Anyone who claims corruption of the Qur'an has a big task to prove these allegations. Yet, here are you after doing a google search you think yourself some expert on the Qur'an.
What is your source? Where did you get the information from? I can be sure it is not from any authority on the Qur'an. *
I NEVER even claimed I am an expert even wid vedas let alone quran so where's the fire?
also my understanding of Islam is based on what I hear or see ... I am certain that your impression of Hinduism is also based on the same... u have not read the vedas either... but u can question all u wish but i cant, how cool is that
3> So give me your best and tell me what areas you think are corrupted and inshaAllah we'll analyse it together.
Didn't u lose enough already in the last thread?
Oh yes we still have plenty of "because the quran says so ammunition left"
4> Nice Strawman! - You have created your own premise for what the term "corruption" means and then you argue by it. Bravo. Actually what you say is not the corruption of the Qur'an at all, it is the corruption of the people who read in to it as they wish. In fact the Qur'an is so miraculous it predicts this behaviour and states, **the Qur'an gives guidance as well misguidance **
Classic example of how muslims take the Literal meaning of the word "corruption" the last sentence says that quran misguides...
I rest my case
Also all the people who have some sense in them will agree to my statement that corruption is not only in words but in acts as well...words are cheap sis, actions count...
6> learn Arabic.
This was as a response to my post on grammatic anomailes in the arabic language...dear Hareem01 in the beginning of that post I said "this was what i heard from dr zakir naik" thats why i dont remember the exacts words
Maybe doc naik should learn Arabic then, dont u agree?
7> I don't care what a person's view about dawah when he does'nt know whats its mean
Then please clarify because the way in which your all knowing doc naik does da'awa is
- contradicting himself
- stating the evergreen "because the quran says so"
- demeaning other religions
and by the way the part where i show the peaceful co-existence values of hindus against the 1400 years of Islamic bloodletting is historical fact.. u may confirm that from Historical NOT religious sites
8>
*So I agree I do not call Islam the religion of peace, but I say it is the only order that can bring the best conditions possible. There will always be **rebels **to any order and Islam is no exception *
1400 years of bloodshed and u guys have only some *rebels? sis 5 or 10 men do not constitute an army, thousands and thousands were needed to fuel the Islamic imperialism that spread from arabia **by the sword* to the east (borneo), west(western sahara) and north (bosnia)
yup some misguided souls, them
hope I have answered your and yo_wasim's questions
U have still not answered my questions , as usual
-Can I build a temple in Saudi Arabia?
-Why didn't the Hindu king of Surat ask for a non hindu tax from the Zororastrains?And why did the parsees leave Iran in the first place?
-Why does islam permit jizya(read extortion)
once again answer me
these questions three
These are only questions from this thread
I've got plenty more which I raised in the thread that was erased, hareem01 had no answers then and i bet she'll have no answer now
Now if this thread is deleted, we can all agree that u guys admitted defeat... as that's the loser's way out...
The only reason that Hareem01 is so upset that this is the first time that muslims are asked to justify their religion, till now it was only muslims who used to ask people to justify other's religion, and thats quite a shock i agree as no hindu wants to take the trouble of clearing your doubts, now I am here
I hope yo_wasim u have better answers than Hareem01 and not "because the quran says so" or " allah hu akbar" as usual
PS: please clarify what them Jinn things are, something magical and invisible i heard, who live amongst us, there are none near my house could u **Prove they exist **
Think hard boy... think hard
and some good news I'll be back home tomorrow so I can stay online longer
Dr. Tommygun, I meant something and you have made a conclusion of something else. Kyun ki, you feel there is no thought process behind that. I made a statement to Narayan, please read it with the context. Not out of it.
Anyways buddy, I love it, love the challengekeep hurling questions Inshallaah will answer all.
Hareem01 I have answered most of the questions asked to you, he is again repeating it, no problem. We will treat even this with wisdom.
Anyways tommy u lied again, when did you aks me regarding building a temple in Saudi. And the questions after that.
*Anyone who claims corruption of the Qur'an has a big task to prove these allegations. Yet, here are you after doing a google search you think yourself some expert on the Qur'an. *
*What is your source? Where did you get the information from? I can be sure it is not from any authority on the Qur'an. *
I NEVER even claimed I am an expert even wid vedas let alone quran so where's the fire?
also my understanding of Islam is based on what I hear or see ... I am certain that your impression of Hinduism is also based on the same... u have not read the vedas either... but u can question all u wish but i cant, how cool is that
Then read the Quran how cool is that. You will get this frree on the web download it.
Quran and corrupted then you got to read the history the original Quran, is still kept in Tashkent and Istanbul Museums, the first documented Quran or the Mushaf.
Maybe doc naik should learn Arabic then, dont u agree?
I dont know what are the anomalies, unless you are Dr. Tommy with Phd in Arabic, so you cant comment regarding this.
If Zakir naik did not know Arabic do you think he would have lasted for so long, when he goes to the Gulf to give Dawa'h extremely sorry, he speaks directly from the Lexicon, thats infact the Quran Arabic with translation, not the colloquial Arabic.
Then please clarify because the way in which your all knowing doc naik does da'awa is
- contradicting himself
- stating the evergreen "because the quran says so"
- demeaning other religions
and by the way the part where i show the peaceful co-existence values of hindus against the 1400 years of Islamic bloodletting is historical fact.. u may confirm that from Historical NOT religious sites
Doctor Naik contradicting himself, I want authentic evidence, as I know he doesnt have to contradict. When he speaks directly from the Horses mouth QuranVedas, and Bible. I want authentic evidence send it across I am here to answer you.
Regarding bloodshedding i want evidence again, send me a documented proof I am ready to pay for it.
Please do that, I want it from Great Historians, not websites from where you pick up information.
1400 years of bloodshed and u guys have only some *rebels? sis 5 or 10 men do not constitute an army, thousands and thousands were needed to fuel the Islamic imperialism that spread from arabia **by the sword* to the east (borneo), west(western sahara) and north (bosnia)
1400 years of bloodshed, then what about Christian crusader for 2 centuries go find out when, my buddy. Go look at it that makes it 1200 now.
Captured by Colonies for 50 years from 1900 to 1950, nearly so that makes it 1150 years.
That Photo taken as propaganda by Christian Serbs in Bosnia. The Bosnian armys disguised themselves as Muslims killed that Muslim women alife - according to UN reports more than 300,000 innocent Muslims [women & children] being slaughterd by our Christians Serbian Armys. UN report indicated that they raped 50,000 Muslims women [young and old].
The below is not bloodshedding right
*In fact, in The Rationalist's Manual (1897), M. D. Aletheia calculates that "The Fruits of Christianism" have actually been 56 million deaths: *
*" Let us look for a moment at the number of victims sacrificed on the altars of the Christian Moloch: *
• 1,000,000 perished during the early Arian schism .
• 1,000,000 during the Carthaginian struggle left it intentionally.
• 7,000,000 during the Saracen slaughters in Spain .
• 5,000,000 perished during the eight Crusades this was a sad part.
• 2,000,000 of Saxons and Scandinavians lost their lives in opposing the introduction of the blessings of Christianity.
• 1,000,000 were destroyed in the Holy(?) Wars against the Netherlands, Albigenses, Waldenses, and Huguenots.
• 30,000,000 Mexicans and Peruvians were slaughtered ere they could be convinced of the beauties(?) of the Christian creed.
• 9,000,000 were burned for witchcraft.
• Total, 56,000,000."
*Civilized Christian Killed Innocent Muslims in Bosnia *
BBC News Online: World: Europe **
*________________________________________ *
**Wednesday, 18 April, 2001, 13:20 GMT 14:20 UK
A former Christian Bosnian Serb commander accused over the massacre of 5,000 Muslims at Srebrenica has appeared before the war crimes tribunal in The Hague to plead not guilty to all the charges against him.
Dragan Obrenovic, who was dramatically arrested in Bosnia on Easter Sunday, looked tired and tense as he stood before the tribunal to deny five counts of genocide and crimes against humanity.
The massacre - inside what was supposed to be a United Nations safe haven - was the worst in Europe since World War II.
Mr Obrenovic is accused of organising firing squads to carry out the summary executions of the 5,000 men and boys, after the fall of Srebrenica in July 1995.
He was in charge of the Zvornik Brigade, which had besieged the eastern town, forcing the Muslims to surrender but then shooting them down.
Mr Obrenovic faces five charges including genocide, murder, violating the laws and customs of war, and persecution.
"Dragan Obrenovic participated in a criminal plan and enterprise, the common purpose of which was to detain, capture and summarily execute by firing squad and bury over 5,000 Muslim men and boys from the Srebrenica enclave," the indictment reads.
The indictment said the crimes also included exhuming the victims' bodies and re-burying them in "hidden locations."
Mass grave
The biggest mass grave of Srebrenica victims was found about 50km (35 miles), near Zvornik - the local brigade which Mr Obrenovic headed.
Mr Obrenovic's overall commander, General Radislav Krstic, is already on trial at The Hague - the highest-ranking Bosnian Serb to go in the dock.
Last month the prosecution played a tape in court of an intercepted telephone conversation in which General Krstic apparently told Mr Obrenovic to carry out the war crime with the words "kill them all".
Get me the proof again. Documented again, how much you want me to pay for it.
This is enough got to keep some more for next time.
Infact you have questioned us not answered. I know you will never be able to answer because you have more personal stuff or ego.
I am happy you agreed that Islam is been answering your questions. Will answer your other 2 questions, will surely do it. By tomorrow.
Respected Tommygun ... I must say ... Audzubillah! I never asked you to say the prophet Muhammad [SAW] had any divine elements ... I think you have misunderstood me. There are parts of scriptures which talk correctly of future events and personages, but they also show weaknesses in areas where scribes have copied the texts by adding or taking away things.
To confirm Muhammad[SAW] had no divine elements, he was a man who was the last prophet of God, who was prophesised in all major scriptures predating him. The actual answer to your question is the Vedas do seem to have signs of Divine origin, however according to later understandings as in the Puranas or Shruti the people have written things which contradict some parts of the Smriti scriptures.
Classic example of how muslims take the Literal meaning of the word "corruption" the last sentence says that quran misguides...
I rest my case
Also all the people who have some sense in them will agree to my statement that corruption is not only in words but in acts as well...words are cheap sis, actions count...
Respected Tommygun
Just before you rest your case ... I think it's worth reminding you what you are resting your case on.
It is the uncorrupted authentic function of the Qur'an to "guide" the people who are honest and "misguide" those who are dishonest. Therefore your argument about the Qur'an being corrupted on account of misguided individuals, is a strawman and holds no basis. Again with humble reminders ... you rest your case.
This is so prone to manipulations... arabic as a language has no strngth at all how can a language have the same word mean both positive and superlative degree?(eg 1)
There is no way to quantify (as in eg 2) If I say prepare food for a group, it means anything to feed between 15 to 100 people(wow, how ambiguous and absurd is that)
There is no essence of Grammar as well so in eg 3 if there are 51 guys and 49 gals, we'll have to stand and count
And with all that quack Zakir Naik says Arabic is the richest language in the world. The guy has turned the definition on it's head a rich language will have a **unique word **for everything just **like sanskrit **does not arabic
With so many chances for manipulation in the original itself(quran in arabic), how long can anything stay incorruptible?
Muslims say that all other books are corrupted but remember all other books/scriptures are in excess of atleast 3000-8000 years old and quran is just 1400 yr old; only time will tell
(here again there can be a debate wheter or not these books were corrupted or not as ONLY quran says they were corrupted)
Once again I will say that all my muslim friends should not claim "Because the Quran says so.." as a valid justification for anything u are only keeping yourself in the dark
8>
*So I agree I do not call Islam the religion of peace, but I say it is the only order that can bring the best conditions possible. There will always be **rebels **to any order and Islam is no exception *
1400 years of bloodshed and u guys have only some *rebels? sis 5 or 10 men do not constitute an army, thousands and thousands were needed to fuel the Islamic imperialism that spread from arabia **by the sword* to the east (borneo), west(western sahara) and north (bosnia)
yup some misguided souls, them
hope I have answered your and yo_wasim's questions
U have still not answered my questions , as usual
-Can I build a temple in Saudi Arabia?
-Why didn't the Hindu king of Surat ask for a non hindu tax from the Zororastrains?And why did the parsees leave Iran in the first place?
-Why does islam permit jizya(read extortion)
once again answer me
these questions three
These are only questions from this thread
I've got plenty more which I raised in the thread that was erased, hareem01 had no answers then and i bet she'll have no answer now
Now if this thread is deleted, we can all agree that u guys admitted defeat... as that's the loser's way out...
The only reason that Hareem01 is so upset that this is the first time that muslims are asked to justify their religion, till now it was only muslims who used to ask people to justify other's religion, and thats quite a shock i agree as no hindu wants to take the trouble of clearing your doubts, now I am here
I hope yo_wasim u have better answers than Hareem01 and not "because the quran says so" or " allah hu akbar" as usual
PS: please clarify what them Jinn things are, something magical and invisible i heard, who live amongst us, there are none near my house could u **Prove they exist **
Think hard boy... think hard
and some good news I'll be back home tomorrow so I can stay online longer
Respected Tommygun
Brother yo-wasim has answered much of this, so I'll keep my comment brief.
Above I said there will always be rebels to every order and Islam is no exception. You misunderstood me. I meant there will be opposition that will oppose every system, that opposition is called a rebellion.
I said if Islam is in place ... there may be rellious forces to topple it just like there are rebellious forces which try to topple other regimes. These forces will cause imbalance and there will be bloodshed. The exception with Islam is that this injustice will be rooted out from it's source and hence effectively optimise the condition of "peaceful" existence of mankind as much is reasonably and practically possible.
Regarding whether you can build a temple in Saudi Arabia ... your answer is ... you can try, but I doubt you will be allowed to by the government. Anyway there are plenty of temples in Saudi Arabia ... they are all used for monotheistic worship of God and they are called Masaajid in Arabic.
Regarding the King and the Zoroastrians ... I don't know the answer ... I need more information about what you are actually trying to say.
Jizya tax = 2.5% of the savings of an individual that is exactly the same as the obligatory charity that Muslims must give to the Islamic state. Compared to 30 - 40% taxes here in Western countries ... I think you are getting the term extortion mixed up.
Tommygun ... you are not the first and certainly not the last to ask Muslims to justify their religion. The very first people were the Jews of Madinah who questionned the prophet [SAW] so much but they were answered in all instances. In fact part of our faith stems from asking ourselves hard questions because we are not allowed to practice "blind faith" ... i.e. we need to read, understand ask questions and seek their answers. Even if you have no intention of considering Islam as the way of life to be, you are giving me the opportunity to increase my knowledge in my religion and about faiths in general. So I am not upset rather I am very happy and thank you Tommygun.
You ask me a hard question ... it is about Jinn. You ask me to prove that they exist. You know what I can't prove it to you, but understanding my faith means that some things are taken on faith. The presence of Jinn is one of them. I can however give you a scientific explanation regarding how their existence can be possible. It stems from the concept of phase. If the existence of matter is taken to it's fundamental form then everything is energy and space, these have harmonics of spin and wave like properties. Things physical have the same phase. Things invisible or living with us and we can't touch or see them ... are considered out of phase. It is only a theory ... my beliefs are compelled by the miraculous nature of the Qur'an. You can't stop me from using the Qur'an as proof as it stands it's own tests and this is all we have to go by regarding certain things of the unseen world. Angels are also on this list and God too.
Brother yo-wasim has answered much of this, so I'll keep my comment brief.
Above I said there will always be rebels to every order and Islam is no exception. You misunderstood me. I meant there will be opposition that will oppose every system, that opposition is called a rebellion.
I said if Islam is in place ... there may be rellious forces to topple it just like there are rebellious forces which try to topple other regimes. These forces will cause imbalance and there will be bloodshed. The exception with Islam is that this injustice will be rooted out from it's source and hence effectively optimise the condition of "peaceful" existence of mankind as much is reasonably and practically possible.
Regarding whether you can build a temple in Saudi Arabia ... your answer is ... you can try, but I doubt you will be allowed to by the government. Anyway there are plenty of temples in Saudi Arabia ... they are all used for monotheistic worship of God and they are called Masaajid in Arabic.
Regarding the King and the Zoroastrians ... I don't know the answer ... I need more information about what you are actually trying to say.
Jizya tax = 2.5% of the savings of an individual that is exactly the same as the obligatory charity that Muslims must give to the Islamic state. Compared to 30 - 40% taxes here in Western countries ... I think you are getting the term extortion mixed up.
Tommygun ... you are not the first and certainly not the last to ask Muslims to justify their religion. The very first people were the Jews of Madinah who questionned the prophet [SAW] so much but they were answered in all instances. In fact part of our faith stems from asking ourselves hard questions because we are not allowed to practice "blind faith" ... i.e. we need to read, understand ask questions and seek their answers. Even if you have no intention of considering Islam as the way of life to be, you are giving me the opportunity to increase my knowledge in my religion and about faiths in general. So I am not upset rather I am very happy and thank you Tommygun.
You ask me a hard question ... it is about Jinn. You ask me to prove that they exist. You know what I can't prove it to you, but understanding my faith means that some things are taken on faith. The presence of Jinn is one of them. I can however give you a scientific explanation regarding how their existence can be possible. It stems from the concept of phase. If the existence of matter is taken to it's fundamental form then everything is energy and space, these have harmonics of spin and wave like properties. Things physical have the same phase. Things invisible or living with us and we can't touch or see them ... are considered out of phase. It is only a theory ... my beliefs are compelled by the miraculous nature of the Qur'an. You can't stop me from using the Qur'an as proof as it stands it's own tests and this is all we have to go by regarding certain things of the unseen world. Angels are also on this list and God too.
This is an excellent reply Allahamdullillaah, you said it right these Individuals, enhance our knowledge and we are Grateful to Allaah.
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