Who's more mature?

[_Iraj]

Re: Who’s more mature?

@Faisal

Oh no! Now, you have offended me. Too bad. I think a 20 year old Pakistani girl living in Pakistan is more mature. Since we have no basis to claim one way or the other, we are just yapping about hypothetical girls living here or there without any context, I think it is a great use of our time to argue on this.

On a more serious note, back in Pakistan, one of my friends had a maid working at their house. She was about 20-21. Orphaned at the age of 7, married at the age of 16, 2 kids, husband died, re-married, her second husband used to beat her, had a miscarriage, filed a police case, her husband was arrested, she got threatened by his family, got divorced and escaped all that by coming to the city to her khaala who got her a job as a maid at my friend’s place. In Pakistan, these kinds of stories are dime a dozen, so to speak. Now you can argue if this girl is more or less mature than a 21 year old living in Pakistan/abroad who has led a sheltered life, goes to college, and thinks that if her boyfriend doesn’t respond to her SMS within 20 minutes it will break her heart and will cause a bigger tragedy than Jal separating from Atif Aslam.

Just making a point, here, of course. Lets keep things in perspective. Thanks.

well there are both - good and bad perpectives of both kinds
even then Pakistani gurls are more mature than avg Foriegn citizen

@hareem01

Most Pakistani girls living in Pakistan have this evilness and mkaari inside them that I don’t see in Paki girls who are born or raised abroad.

But in some areas of thinking Paki girls living in Pakistan are so naive and simple.

Also, mostly Pakistani youth living abroad is aware of their religion than the others.

and who told you that ???

@zobia

both are immature.

but in pakistan they try to act mature, dont know why

depends on the nature of the gurl , can act anywhere , if she’s of the type

@X2

abroad where? US? Saudi Arabia?
and in Pakistan where? major city, chuk #42?
what social group..?

aside from each individual being…err individual…unique. These factors play a role as well.

and then what is your definition of maturity.

Having said all that if I had to answer teh question in generalities, I would say that a 20 year old in US is more mature than an avg 20 year old in Pakistan. In general they have seen more, have had access to more information, have the opportunity to do more,** I mean just look at how many 20 year old desi girls in US have worked**, even if it is just a summer job during break, or how many have been involved in different organizations and compare that to avg girls in pakistan. That ios just one example.. It does not mean that having the indeoendence and opportunity automatically makes one more mature but there is a higher likelihood.

I saw a world of difference in desi guys who had moved here for undergrad and were putting themselves through college, or even if they were not. Compared to their friends back home they were def more mature. I have heard many times from my friends, and it was my own experience as well that the guys there just seemed to be stuck in some kid of rut and not really growing as people or growing slow.

perhaps it is the same with girls.

The amount of work done does not make you mature.
that is their obligation , their liability , that if they don’t work , they will not be able to survive .
and especially with gurls/ women it’s not the same .

@Iconoclast

Whether in chuk #42 or from Karachi, (barring those who fall on either side of teh average joe), a 20 year old in Pakistan is more mature than 20 year old living abroad.

In Pakistan they are on their own from much younger age and develop the survival skills earlier. I have seen that in medical college, which cater students from every where, majority from Pakistan and a sizeable number from abroad. Those raised in Pakistan do better both academically and socially than those from abroad. It takes students from abroad 2-3 years to catch up on locals.

I reckon

@X2

2-3 years to catch u on locals because they are in a new culture and environment, obviously it takes getting used to, especially if they are coming from a place where due process etc is the norm and not the type of ghunda gardee that desi colleges are known for.

a 20 year old living abroad can be away from home in a different state and living completely independently. working on and/or off campus, paying ren, utilities, car payments etc,

desi 20 yr oldsin pakistan can barely iron their own clothes and do laundry let alone sign contracts, and be financially responsible for jack.

street smar

this is because of all the social securities - there’s a dire threat of life in Pakistan . Even Bay nazer was notr able to handle it

@Iconoclast

I found this to be true of ABCDs rather than Pakis back home. Local students in hostel used to do all of their stuff by themselves, including laundry and some even did jobs, and took care of their tution fees etc. Compared to those from abroad who used to spend lavishly.

Same can be said of FOBs landing in USA/UK.

By the way, i too for quite a while beleived that boyz from chuk#42 had low IQ, but if you go beyond their attire and the paindoo accent, they are no way less intelligent than ABCDs.

True . I found out so many good things about Pakistanis when i went to the hostel .

@X2

majority of desi dont live in hostels do they?

sure, it takes time for them to adapt also. and has nothing to do with maturity, that is what I was hinting at. Yo had brought it up, and my view was that it was irrelevant.

‘too’ would indicate that someone else here said that boys from chuck#42 have low IQs. there are a couple of issues with this statement. I never said they had low IQ. Nor am I really concerned aboyt their attire or pandu accent. so lets not keep running on tangents

The issue is of maturity, and fact of the matter is that majority of desi girls in pak at teh age of 20 live in a very protective atmosphere, dont work, are not really responsible for much. the ability to take responsibility fpor oneself, and to do that well shows maturity in my view, and on that scale, most Pakistanis in Pakistan have not had a reason to take personal responsibility and thus do not have that maturity, its not to say that they cant become mature or have an inability to be mature.

They are much maturer , because they live in an environment that is Protective from the outside , but the inside it is totally different .

@saieen

just the bold part…fact is simple that they live in a different country, different society with different cultural and traditional values and norms.

as for the original post…its moronic to compare the two simply bcos the social and cultural make up of pak and other countries is not the same and differs in more than 1 way. as for working and exposure to the world, well that doesn’t really make them mature. infact it puts them in a situation where they have to live a two-faced life, one outside the house, one in the home. i call it deceiving, you can call it maturity or whatever u like.

I believe that too

@Cheegum

Pakistan has mainly two (and a half) groups of people.

1. The rich ones who can afford all the luxuries of life, live in flashy houses, have govt connections all over and have naukar chaakar serving their every whim.
2. The (majority) poor ones who have to live hand to mouth and live in either villages or slums in the city.
3. And (the half) fast disappearing middle class.
   20 yr old girl abroad is more mature than the first kind. But not nearly as mature as a 20 yr old girl from the other two kinds.

IMHO.

Excellent Analysis

@Sara516

First of all, what’s “Mature”???

maybe in practical life, girls brought up here can be more “mature” than a girl who lives in Pak, whose never left her house without her family…

but in one regard, i think pakistani girls have beat american-rased girls… and that’s in being chalaak and manipulative. Whether that’s good or bad…depends on the victim..

annd Is it because you don’t live in Pakistan ? :aq:

@Iconoclast

IT ALL DEPENDS UPON WHT YOU CALL “MATURITY”.

Ability to negotiate the challeneges that one faces or solve the problems that come across, that what i call maturity.

And in my experience that a 20 yr old living in Paistan is better at it than 20 year old living abroad.

[quote=Iconoclast;5710175.

Life is hard for most Pakistani youth.[/quote]

No doubt

@Iconoclast

So you haven’t been in Pakistan for a decade that explains why you don’t know much about them. May be the middle class in Karachi is large and relatively wealthier but in pther parts of country, middle class kids in 20’s don’t get their hands on money to enjoy any luxuries.

Well, in west 20 year old tend to do jobs on campus, sure, Pakistani 20 year old don’t, coz the don’t get any suitable job on campus, but many of them do tutoring or help with their parents, who usually have small business or shops etc.

yeah there are so many things covered in so many ways that it is hard to put them all down

@X2

well not much seems to be worth it for pakistani youth anyways, the difference shows quite clearly in the impact of youth fueled service organizations in US versus those in Pakistan. sense of volunteerism seems to be pretty bad there.

this does not provide any evidence of being irresponsible

[Terrible_Guy]

Re: Who's more mature?

A 20 y/o girl living in Pakistan or 20 y/o Pakistani girl living abroad?

What are your experiences/views?

It depends how you define maturity. From what I've seen, a girl living in Pakistan would be able to run a household in terms of household work. On the other hand, a girl abroad, particularly in the West at that age would be more independent and might have work experience by that time, or they might even have lived on their own and would probably be better at managing finances, studies and what not.

[X2]

Re: Who's more mature?

@_Iraj

this does not provide any evidence of being irresponsible

as i stated, responsibility is part of maturity but is not the same as maturity.

and responsibility for oneself, one's surroundings, and others seem to indicate empathy, and understanding.

The fact that volunteerism is at pathetic lows among Pakistani youth compared to their american counterparts indicate that atleast in that respect they are behind.

It is evidence of irresponsibility btw, irresponsibility towards others, towards society etc.

I am still unconvinced that an avg 20 year old girl in pakistan is as mature as an average 20 year old in US. I simply dont see it.

[X2]

Re: Who's more mature?

I was looking around for definition of maturity, found an interestign list but that talked about what it means to be an adult..I think it applies here too. listed below are those factors. These can be used as more definted attributes in comparison than a so far of a vague word maturity that is being inconsistently in this thread.

Self-control - restraint, emotional control.
Stability - stable personality, strength.
Independence - ability to self-regulate.
Seriousness - ability to deal with life in a serious manner.
Responsibility - accountability, commitment and reliability.
Method/Tact - ability to think ahead and plan for the future, patience.
Endurance - ability and willingness to cope with difficulties that present themselves.
Experience - breadth of mind, understanding.
Objectivity - perspective and realism.
Decision making capability - as all of the above correspond to making proper decisions.

[zobia]

Re: Who's more mature?

did anyone ever try to prove that they are immature (definition provided in post #44)?

[muslima21]

Re: Who’s more mature?

@Terrible_Guy

It depends how you define maturity. From what I’ve seen, a girl living in Pakistan would be able to run a household in terms of household work. On the other hand, a girl abroad, particularly in the West at that age would be more independent and might have work experience by that time, or they might even have lived on their own and would probably be better at managing finances, studies and what not.

Terrible guy you are **terriblest **of all:ASA:,are you trying to UNDERESTIMATE Pakistani born girls…arghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!Yes they can manage finances on their own..if it comes on them as a responsibility,do their studies..look after household stuff.

[_Iraj]

Re: Who's more mature?

@zobia

did anyone ever try to prove that they are immature (definition provided in post #44)?

one has to prove his/her maturity not immaturity :D

@X2

as i stated, responsibility is part of maturity but is not the same as maturity.

and responsibility for oneself, one's surroundings, and others seem to indicate empathy, and understanding.

The fact that volunteerism is at pathetic lows among Pakistani youth compared to their american counterparts indicate that atleast in that respect they are behind.

It is evidence of irresponsibility btw, irresponsibility towards others, towards society etc.

I am still unconvinced that an avg 20 year old girl in pakistan is as mature as an average 20 year old in US. I simply dont see it.

The difference lies with the 2 life circles . In Pakistan people are not self sufficient . once they are deprived of many opportunities , it destroys their self confidence to help others in any way , as they need it themselves , so it takes more for them to volunteer anything , anywhere.
another thing is in Pakistan when you want to do something you will have to do it right from step 1 to the last yourself . there will be no one to help you .
so they become habitual of being self - centred.
this turns out be one of the main reasons of low volunteerism
whereas in the west , people are self sufficient , be it in jobs , anything :)
so automatically their approach towards volunteerism is different .

BUT dealing with one's problem all alone all along makes one more maturer , more adaptive , more experienced , more serious , more independant and so on :)

@X2

I was looking around for definition of maturity, found an interestign list but that talked about what it means to be an adult..I think it applies here too. listed below are those factors. These can be used as more definted attributes in comparison than a so far of a vague word maturity that is being inconsistently in this thread.

Self-control - restraint, emotional control. Stability - stable personality, strength. Independence - ability to self-regulate. Seriousness - ability to deal with life in a serious manner. Responsibility - accountability, commitment and reliability. Method/Tact - ability to think ahead and plan for the future, patience. Endurance - ability and willingness to cope with difficulties that present themselves. Experience - breadth of mind, understanding. Objectivity - perspective and realism. Decision making capability - as all of the above correspond to making proper decisions.

there's no denial to this definition , responsibility may be one of the elements , but along with many other.

let me explain it this way , compare 2 gurls , one from an aristocratic class named A and the other a village area B. the girl from the aristocratic class will not be more maturer than the girl from village area , because B faces more hardship in a day than A faces throughout her life . B becomes more adaptive and responsible than A.
Similarly ppl living in Pakistan have more problems than pll living all over the world . dealing with them on a day to day basis makes them more maturer :)

[X2]

Re: Who's more mature?

@_Iraj

The difference lies with the 2 life circles . In Pakistan people are not self sufficient . once they are deprived of many opportunities , it destroys their self confidence to help others in any way , as they need it themselves , so it takes more for them to volunteer anything , anywhere. another thing is in Pakistan when you want to do something you will have to do it right from step 1 to the last yourself . there will be no one to help you . so they become habitual of being self - centred. this turns out be one of the main reasons of low volunteerism whereas in the west , people are self sufficient , be it in jobs , anything :) so automatically their approach towards volunteerism is different .

Iraj..I am sorry to say but that reason is not true across the board. I can understand that for poor ppl or lower middle class, but this trend is seen in all groups. A good example of that is middle class areas like Nazimabad where the college and uni students have all the time in the world to play galli mohalla cricket, sehri tournaments but no time to do a neighbourhood cleanup.

and going with the statement you made, people being not self sufficient, not having confidence...are those two things also not pointing towards a lower level of maturity?

@_Iraj

BUT dealing with one's problem all alone all along makes one more maturer , more adaptive , more experienced , more serious , more independant and so on :)

exactly and desis in US as they are working to put themselves thru college or atleast supplement teh costs, living in different states at times, responsible for their own expenses..it makes them more mature and everything else that you listed.

@_Iraj

let me explain it this way , compare 2 gurls , one from an aristocratic class named A and the other a village area B. the girl from the aristocratic class will not be more maturer than the girl from village area , because B faces more hardship in a day than A faces throughout her life . B becomes more adaptive and responsible than A. Similarly ppl living in Pakistan have more problems than pll living all over the world . dealing with them on a day to day basis makes them more maturer :)

facing hardship alone does not make a person more mature, adaptive or responsible. lets apply your example in a US setting, is the guy living in a ghetto with gang bangers around and drugs on each corner necessarily more mature? maybe more streetsmart..maybe understanding more of what hardship is but endurance is just part of it right? stats after stats show that ppl in those groups make very wrong choices, whether its percentage of single mothers, crimes, drug usage, violence, you name it. So how does that show maturity?

btw desis growing up in the west have to deal with challenges that ppl in pakistan cant even begin to understand, maintaining one's identity, being successful in 2 different cultural settings, etc as well.

PS: more mature, not more maturer ;)

[AnGeL_EyEs]

Re: Who's more mature?

Also, mostly Pakistani youth living abroad is aware of their religion than the others.

^I agree with this as well.

Now, that doesnt mean that the Paki youth living in Pak doesnt know anything about religion because of course there are those that do ...it's just in my observation I have noticed that Paki's living in Pakistan have their own twisted version of Islam. They believe what others have taught them and they dont read/research and study Islam for themselves like they do here.

[Mamaof3]

Re: Who's more mature?

I have to admit I didnt read thru the entire thread but my 2 cents? It all depends on the environment they were brought up in.

I know one desi gal in my family. Brought up in USA, went to public school but forced to go right home every day, not to mix in, not to join in clubs or after school activities. Not to go to college, just to get married. She is a sour, bitter and immature woman now, has kids but resents them and looks to dump them on anyone she can. She tells anyone who will listen that although she did not go to college, she was offered a cull scholarship to harvard and BEGGed to take it. She is obviously maladjusted and suffers from a severe inferiority complex.

another desi gal, raised over there...got married at 17, had babies (four of them), lived happily and willingly with her in-laws. Took care of her kids and her in-laws, huge house and numerous guests with a smile and with absolute sincerity...the martha stewart of northern pak. She always looks impeccable and beautiful, always has a smile.

I know people who could fit the opposite extremes. The thing is, its all in heredity, environment and upbringing.

[Sara516]

Re: Who's more mature?

Thats sad. :(

[Innocent_Attitude]

Re: Who's more mature?

The level of maturity is independent of one's geaographical locations. It depends mainly upon the circumstances that one has come accross and also the way one is brought up; the more practical one is, the more mature he/she is!!!