Whether in chuk #42 or from Karachi, (barring those who fall on either side of teh average joe), a 20 year old in Pakistan is more mature than 20 year old living abroad.
In Pakistan they are on their own from much younger age and develop the survival skills earlier. I have seen that in medical college, which cater students from every where, majority from Pakistan and a sizeable number from abroad. Those raised in Pakistan do better both academically and socially than those from abroad. It takes students from abroad 2-3 years to catch up on locals.
2-3 years to catch u on locals because they are in a new culture and environment, obviously it takes getting used to, especially if they are coming from a place where due process etc is the norm and not the type of ghunda gardee that desi colleges are known for.
a 20 year old living abroad can be away from home in a different state and living completely independently. working on and/or off campus, paying ren, utilities, car payments etc,
desi 20 yr oldsin pakistan can barely iron their own clothes and do laundry let alone sign contracts, and be financially responsible for jack.
2-3 years to catch u on locals because they are in a new culture and environment, obviously it takes getting used to, especially if they are coming from a place where due process etc is the norm and not the type of ghunda gardee that desi colleges are known for.
a 20 year old living abroad can be away from home in a different state and living completely independently. working on and/or off campus, paying ren, utilities, car payments etc,
*desi 20 yr oldsin pakistan can barely iron their own clothes and do laundry let alone sign contracts, and be financially responsible for jack. *
street smar
I found this to be true of ABCDs rather than Pakis back home. Local students in hostel used to do all of their stuff by themselves, including laundry and some even did jobs, and took care of their tution fees etc. Compared to those from abroad who used to spend lavishly.
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2-3 years to catch u on locals because they are in a new culture and environment, obviously it takes getting used to,
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Same can be said of FOBs landing in USA/UK.
By the way, i too for quite a while beleived that boyz from chuk#42 had low IQ, but if you go beyond their attire and the paindoo accent, they are no way less intelligent than ABCDs.
I found this to be true of ABCDs rather than Pakis back home. Local students in hostel used to do all of their stuff by themselves, including laundry and some even did jobs, and took care of their tution fees etc. Compared to those from abroad who used to spend lavishly.
majority of desi dont live in hostels do they?
Same can be said of FOBs landing in USA/UK.
sure, it takes time for them to adapt also. and has nothing to do with maturity, that is what I was hinting at. Yo had brought it up, and my view was that it was irrelevant.
By the way, i too for quite a while beleived that boyz from chuk#42 had low IQ, but if you go beyond their attire and the paindoo accent, they are no way less intelligent than ABCDs.
'too' would indicate that someone else here said that boys from chuck#42 have low IQs. there are a couple of issues with this statement. I never said they had low IQ. Nor am I really concerned aboyt their attire or pandu accent. so lets not keep running on tangents
The issue is of maturity, and fact of the matter is that majority of desi girls in pak at teh age of 20 live in a very protective atmosphere, dont work, are not really responsible for much. the ability to take responsibility fpor oneself, and to do that well shows maturity in my view, and on that scale, most Pakistanis in Pakistan have not had a reason to take personal responsibility and thus do not have that maturity, its not to say that they cant become mature or have an inability to be mature.
sure, it takes time for them to adapt also. and has nothing to do with maturity, that is what I was hinting at. Yo had brought it up, and my view was that it was irrelevant.
'too' would indicate that someone else here said that boys from chuck#42 have low IQs. there are a couple of issues with this statement. I never said they had low IQ. Nor am I really concerned aboyt their attire or pandu accent. so lets not keep running on tangents
** The issue is of maturity, and fact of the matter is that majority of desi girls in pak at teh age of 20 live in a very protective atmosphere, dont work, are not really responsible for much. the ability to take responsibility fpor oneself, and to do that well shows maturity in my view, and on that scale, most Pakistanis in Pakistan have not had a reason to take personal responsibility and thus do not have that maturity, its not to say that they cant become mature or have an inability to be mature.**
just the bold part...fact is simple that they live in a different country, different society with different cultural and traditional values and norms.
as for the original post...its moronic to compare the two simply bcos the social and cultural make up of pak and other countries is not the same and differs in more than 1 way. as for working and exposure to the world, well that doesn't really make them mature. infact it puts them in a situation where they have to live a two-faced life, one outside the house, one in the home. i call it deceiving, you can call it maturity or whatever u like.
Pakistan has mainly two (and a half) groups of people.
The rich ones who can afford all the luxuries of life, live in flashy houses, have govt connections all over and have naukar chaakar serving their every whim.
The (majority) poor ones who have to live hand to mouth and live in either villages or slums in the city.
And (the half) fast disappearing middle class.
20 yr old girl abroad is more mature than the first kind. But not nearly as mature as a 20 yr old girl from the other two kinds.
as for working and exposure to the world, well that doesn't really make them mature. infact it puts them in a situation where they have to live a two-faced life, one outside the house, one in the home. i call it deceiving, you can call it maturity or whatever u like.
how is a 20 year old living away for college, who is responsible for his rent and utilities and groceries and everything two faced?
and as far as two faces, do u really think that does not happen in pakistan? do you think that shehzaday doing all types of kameena-pana in shopping areas at chand raat go home and telkl their mother how many women they molested and groped in teh bazaar?
Pakistan has mainly two (and a half) groups of people.
The rich ones who can afford all the luxuries of life, live in flashy houses, have govt connections all over and have naukar chaakar serving their every whim.
The (majority) poor ones who have to live hand to mouth and live in either villages or slums in the city.
And (the half) fast disappearing middle class.
20 yr old girl abroad is more mature than the first kind. But not nearly as mature as a 20 yr old girl from the other two kinds.
IMHO.
I would agree with half of that, and say that an avg person abroad is more responsiblee than first and last group.
responsibility is a key component of maturity, not the only one though.
how is a 20 year old living away for college, who is responsible for his rent and utilities and groceries and everything two faced?
and as far as two faces, do u really think that does not happen in pakistan? do you think that shehzaday doing all types of kameena-pana in shopping areas at chand raat go home and telkl their mother how many women they molested and groped in teh bazaar?
First of all, what's "Mature"???
maybe in practical life, girls brought up here can be more "mature" than a girl who lives in Pak, whose never left her house without her family......
but in one regard, i think pakistani girls have beat american-rased girls... and that's in being chalaak and manipulative. Whether that's good or bad....depends on the victim..:p
thats why I had asked for a definition fo maturity in my first post, and everyone seems to have divergent views on wha constitutes maturity. I think u are looking for the same i.e. what is the definition of mature.
I personally think that the lame family politics point to an inherent immaturity of ppl to be able to deal with and address things in a civilized, responsible, respectful and honest manner.
I personally think the manipulation, family politics, protocols, etc reek of immaturity.
absolutely true, Fraudia bhai.
thanks for stating it so cuccinctly for otherwise scared and unsure people who always end up making alibis and then suffer ever more.
sure, it takes time for them to adapt also. and has nothing to do with maturity, that is what I was hinting at. Yo had brought it up, and my view was that it was irrelevant.
'too' would indicate that someone else here said that boys from chuck#42 have low IQs. there are a couple of issues with this statement. I never said they had low IQ. Nor am I really concerned aboyt their attire or pandu accent. so lets not keep running on tangents
The issue is of maturity, and fact of the matter is that majority of desi girls in pak at teh age of 20 live in a very protective atmosphere, dont work, are not really responsible for much. the ability to take responsibility fpor oneself, and to do that well shows maturity in my view, and on that scale, most Pakistanis in Pakistan have not had a reason to take personal responsibility and thus do not have that maturity, its not to say that they cant become mature or have an inability to be mature.
IT ALL DEPENDS UPON WHT YOU CALL "MATURITY".
Ability to negotiate the challeneges that one faces or solve the problems that come across, that what i call maturity.
And in my experience that a 20 yr old living in Paistan is better at it than 20 year old living abroad.
Good to see you finally arrived at teh basic question I had asked in my very first post in this thread
what is your definition of maturity.
But maybe having it in all caps makes it more serious ;)
Ability to negotiate the challeneges that one faces or solve the problems that come across, that what i call maturity.
And in my experience that a 20 yr old living in Paistan is better at it than 20 year old living abroad.
facing challenges, looks more like perseverence than maturity, but I suppose that can be a component of maturity just like I noted that responsibility is a component of maturity, the respinsibility shown by 20 yr olds abroad as they live ion their own and run their ownlife.
btw aside from the poor ppl, what challenges do shehzaday who live at daddy's home in pakistan face on a daily basis? how to stretch the pocket money for the whole month?
^Ofcourse that is one of the challenges, coz they get very little pocket money, rather all many of them get is fare to college and 1 samoosa at canteen. Many try to save that too.
I feel that only Pakis you come acroos are few raees zadas of Clifton karachi.
gettingf pocket money and trying to stretch that is a luxury
I dont come across any Pakis in pakistan anymore, have not been back in almost a decade. as far as ppl I come across they range from ppl from clifton, to gulshan to shah fisal colony, malir, landhi and all.
but its not just raeeszaday who have little or no responsibilities. even when i was there last time, places liek gulshan, fb area, pechs..middle class areas were full of sahibzadays living at home without any real responsibilities.
aside from the poor, i dont believe majority of 20 year olds work to pay for their expenses to start with.
So you haven't been in Pakistan for a decade that explains why you don't know much about them. May be the middle class in Karachi is large and relatively wealthier but in pther parts of country, middle class kids in 20's don't get their hands on money to enjoy any luxuries.
Well, in west 20 year old tend to do jobs on campus, sure, Pakistani 20 year old don't, coz the don't get any suitable job on campus, but many of them do tutoring or help with their parents, who usually have small business or shops etc.
so middle class is defined differently in diff parts of the country, or are you saying middle class in rest of the nation is like lower classes in Karachi?
Have things changed so much in pakistan in the last 9 years that most 20 yrs olds living in middle class neighbourhoods like gulshan and north nazimabad now working and paying their own expenses? from what I recall the sahibzaday went to university or college and then spent the evening sitting in the mohalla or playing galli cricket.
if now majority of them are working and supporting themselves and going to universities all over pakistan than pakistan has changed quite a bit from what I remember. even more so if 20 year old girls from middle class families are working and living on their own etc.
and one small correction in west 20 yer olds dont just do jobs ion campuses, but work in retail stores, gas stations, offices. I even knew guys who worked at a beef plant.
anyways, we will keep goign in circles until someone describes what we mea by mature. we have touched on things such as responsibility, street smarts, manipulative ability, survival skills.. but i dont think anyone has really stated what they mean by maturity..
Middle class in itslef is a relative term and yes it wud be defined differently in different places.
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and one small correction in west 20 yer olds dont just do jobs ion campuses, but work in retail stores, gas stations, offices. I even knew guys who worked at a beef plant.
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Thats what i stated that such jobs are not available to 20 yr old middle class of Pak, coz in Pakistan these jobs are taken up by poor. 5-6 year olds work in gas stations and retail stores and beef plants. And they work all day long and sleep on the roof tops of the gas stations or factories. These jobs are very low paid and doing a part time in these places is not worth it.
well not much seems to be worth it for pakistani youth anyways, the difference shows quite clearly in the impact of youth fueled service organizations in US versus those in Pakistan. sense of volunteerism seems to be pretty bad there.