Nadzzz, just dont let such comments get to you yaar…coz who gives anyone the right to say that? Pakistan ka kisi ne theka to nai lya hua na…and no one has been assigned the authority to decide who is Pakistani and who is not…
Sadzzz, hmmm interesting point. But i have met Pakistanis here in Canada, spent a fair bit of time here, who still think that way about Indians. They haven't received indoctrination from 'back home' (i.e., in Pakistan). And then i have met Pakistanis living all their lives in Pakistan, who are just the opposite - who have nothing against Indians. Your point about what we are taught in schools raises something else - indoctrination works in every ethnic group. In Canada, in our social studies classes in junior high/high school, i remember being spoonfed every single possible fact under the sun regarding our ties with the British, the construction of the national Canadian railroad and how that cemented our country's unity, our role in slavery and the movement to abolish slavery, the wars with the US, how our govt'l. institutions developed, etc etc - but we were NEVER taught even one segment on Aboriginal Canadians. That whole part of Canada's history (the word "Canada" itself, by the way, is Aboriginal) was completely wiped out from our school curriculum as though Aboriginal Canadians never even existed here to begin with and "history" started with the settlers from Europe. Speaking of indoctrination via teaching - Canada is a master at this art.
LegBreakGoogly, You should never ask that question of someone else. What can i tell you about yourself, that you don't already know? Ask yourself that question; you will receive a more accurate answer. i'm not going to judge you when i don't even know you.
[quote]
....I think its about a set of characteristics that are for the most part, unique to people from a certain region/country.
[/quote]
Akif :) Aap kaise hain?
Good point about the "good, the bad and the ugly". ALL ethnic groups have that.
In your opinion, what are the qualities that make up being Pakistani - i'll be specific... does someone have to have lived in Pakistan all their adult lives to be considered as one? Do you have to know the ins and outs of local customs in any village? Should you go back for a vacation every year? Do you have to have a love of mangoes/cricket? If someone's lived outside of Pakistan their whole lives and were born somewhere else, and their parents are Pakistani, is that person Pakistani? Just wondering what your personal take is on this issue.
Mystical Miss, No there is a seed of truth there i think in what you wrote. hmmm... thinking
Irem, You stated there is no common denominator. Isn't there, are you sure? What about being shy, respecting your elders, sleeping on the roof, eating mangoes, loving cricket - are these not characteristics that maybe society defines as being a "good" Pakistani?
:~/ Anyways, my problem is that i think too much.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
Mystical Miss, No there is a seed of truth there i think in what you wrote. hmmm... thinking
[/QUOTE]
care to elaborate ?
Shy? Nadia, no…yaar, you’ll find all kinds of people from very bold to very shy…there are all kinds of Pakistani people nadz…
Respecting your elders? Nadia, there are many Pakistanis who’ve never stepped out of Pakistan who don’t respect their elders…they talk back to them. Often in the newspapers there are news items of “Man murders father”…and so on…
Eating mangoes? You’ll be surprised yaar, liking mangoes is a personal preference, I have friends born and raised in Pak who don’t like mangoes…
Loving Cricket? Nadia so many people don’t enjoy cricket yaar…
These characteristics have nothing to do with making one a good or a bad Pakistani…what is a “good” Pakistani yar? and what is a “bad” Pakistani…?
the very fact that you care and want to be Pakistani already makes you more Pakistani than many others imho nadz 
And yes, your problem is you think too much, but …whom among us doesn’t have this problem 
sigh
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by irem: *
I have friends born and raised in Pak who don't like mangoes....
[/QUOTE]
now now, Irem. I think everyone knows a Pakistani not liking mangoes is simply not possible. it just doesn't make any sense.
CA, To be honest, actually, i am not certain why i said that. Sorry. 
aw Irem… Thanks yaar. You know what that reminded me of as soon as i read it - there’s this episode in Star Trek where Lieutenant Tasha dies and through this holographic projection thingy, she has left farewell messages for the whole TNG crew. Her message to Data was something along the lines of, “In your earnest desire to be human, you are more human than the rest of us.” (oh, just incase you don’t watch TNG - Data was this android who was in this perpetual quest to be human…so those words by Tasha must have really meant a lot to him). er it was just one of those episodes :o You have to watch it to understand what i mean. feeling ishtupid now
Sambrialian, haha yeah. :~D
Aye.
Nadz, hugz “In your earnest desire to be human, you are more human than the rest of us.” that’s so beautiful and yes, thats totally true…
sambrialian 
trust me there are Pakis who don’t like mangoes i was shocked too but there are quite a few!
guess Im playing devil's advocate..or the devil here but anyhow. rambling half thought post follows.
It isnt so far fetched to say that assimilation into their host cultures erode some if not a lot of the pakistaniness. That is the definition of assimilation, features of the immigrant culture are lost during adoption of the host's.
simply originating from pakistan doesnt really make one a pakistani, atleast as far as representation of pakistani cultural features are concerned. a lot of americans are second generation germans for instance. Now they have nothing remotely to do with Germany, not in spirit, not in form.
Some of the above may have to do with the fact that we look different from americans and germans. Racism, and other forms of adversity does ensure that the affected group develop methods to sustain itself. If pakistanis were white and didnt speak english with an accent, I'd wager the assimilation would be a LOT quicker.
Take for example India. You would be at a massive disconnect with pakistani thought if you found them a beautiful people full of magic, oppurtunity and telivision. Likewise the issue of Kashmir. Likewise miniskirts, nightclubs, alcohol and irreligion.
And I disagree with Irem. There are definitely features associated with our culture. Respect for elders, mangoes, religious zeal, the concept of ghairatmandy, urdu, a tendency to misspell mangos yada yada. Yes there are those who dont fit the mould in pakistan in some aspects, but it would be facile to expect that. Culture is a generalisation over the practices of a lot of people, and some people might not conform to those.
ps: my mother doesnt like mangoes.
How people can think so much about such issues. 
May be I am unable to understand the importance of identity.
As I never had to experience identity crisis
Why people want to associate themselves to Pakistan ?
Everyone in Pakistan is seems to be bitching about this country like no other country is worse than thier home land. And every non- resident pakistani is desperate for pakistani recognition.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
In your opinion, what are the qualities that make up being Pakistani - i'll be specific... does someone have to have lived in Pakistan all their adult lives to be considered as one? Do you have to know the ins and outs of local customs in any village? Should you go back for a vacation every year? Do you have to have a love of mangoes/cricket? If someone's lived outside of Pakistan their whole lives and were born somewhere else, and their parents are Pakistani, is that person Pakistani? Just wondering what your personal take is on this issue.
[/QUOTE]
No Nadia..one doesnt have to live their entire adult life in Pakistan in order be a pakistani. I havent, but I consider myself a Pakistani. I think a basic level of awareness, combined with hardcore links to the country is more than enough to be a Pakistani. You dont have to know the ins and outs of local customs. You dont have to go back for a vacation every year.....but mangoes! you cant even spell Pakistan if you dont like mangoes:)
I personally feel that a persons own willingness to connect to Pakistan is what makes them a Pakistani, and noone can judge them otherwise. I have a friend who has an american wife. His wife, over the course of their marriage, has developed a deeper connection with Pakistan than my friend himself. And she claims to be a Pakistani as well at times, even though they reside in the US. So for all I care, you dont even have to have any parental link to Pakistan in order to be a Pakistani. Its all about how far you are willing to reach out.
Is this thread about "who thinks like a Pakistani?" or "what makes one Pakistani?"
How can thinking be related to a nation state?
then there are other nuggets like "showing respect to elders because as a trait reserved for oriental and african cultures"...huh? Which anthrosociological study did this piece come from?
Ravage has good points about losing ones native culture during assimilation but it is more than that. Those that resist assimilation are neither here nor there (essentially miserable souls), and those that do need to look at 1+1=3 as the synergy. rest of the India thingie doesn't add up. WTF is irreligion? is that a sect or something?
Ravage, >>Culture is a generalisation over the practices of a lot of people, and some people might not conform to those.<<
Interesting thoughts.
Code Red, So true. Yet every human being craves an identity if only for group/societal recognition and the feeling that one belongs to a community.
Akif,
>>I personally feel that a persons own willingness to connect to Pakistan is what makes them a Pakistani, and noone can judge them otherwise. ...] So for all I care, you dont even have to have any parental link to Pakistan in order to be a Pakistani. Its all about how far you are willing to reach out.<<
i wish more people thought like this. Fantastic.
tsk tsk tsk… it’s pathetic to see how selfish people can be. They want to have a Pakistani identity yet they won’t stop dissing the country and its people. You know what, it’s your right to call yourself a Pakistani but also, it’s your duty to stand up for Pakistan and other Pakistanis rather than dissing them! But even if you don’t defend it who can stop you from being called a Pakistani coz afterall, most Pakistanis ARE selfish, they will have thousand things to bitch about the country but they won’t have two good words for it! Go ahead, claim your identity, it won’t really make a difference if we have one more selfish Pakistani.
CA, i am not certain where that is coming from.
i have my own personal reasons for everything i say, and do. It MAY seem to you that i diss Pakistan. Infact, that couldn’t be more inaccurate. Only Allah Knows what love i have inside myself, for my own ethnic background. It is an inseparable part of me.
Baqi sab, to be honest, i’ve already pissed off people this whole week, infact it seems that’s all i do these days. So i don’t really feel right now like getting into a debate to discuss what my heart feels inside regarding being Pakistani/criticizing aspects of our culture. If there are cultural aspects that i disagree with, then i have the right to express those just the same as i have disagreed with female genital mutilation in some African societies.
Baqi sab. i will let Allah be my Judge on the day of judgement.
whoahh whoahh…here u go nadia. A definition of pakistani:D
CA, first you oppose people dissing pakistan and pakistanis but on the other hand, you diss them by yourself.: On a sidennote, would you care to elaborate on how one should defend pakistanis?
why is that whenever you guys are having bad days you’ll criticize Pakistanis? It’s not just about the comment you made in this thread but I’ve come across many of your posts that can easily offend a Pakistani back home. Why so insensitive if you yourself don’t like others discriminating you just coz you’ve spent most of your life abroad? why the double standards?
**This is what i think of all the pakistanis no matter where in the world they are.. ‘chamchas’… and thats what i think of the culture as well ‘a totally chamcha culture’…
I think all pakistani think the same way regardless of where they are unless they are mixed with some other race.. **
there’s a seed of truth, eh? if you consider yourself a Pakistani then this statement includes you too, samjhi? and how could you not feel dissed by it? 
Yeah, I did but how often do I do that? how many threads have I opened to stereotype abcds or fobs?
by simply not making racist remarks or stereotypes about Pakistan or Pakistanis ‘in general’.
CA,
Nadz is one of the nicest guppies on this forum and im suprised u are lashing out at her. She has got to be the one person i thought whose always sticking by Pakistanis.. infact she sticks by every culture!
If someone is discussing the culture, even the bad bits.. whats wrong with that girl?
and whats this? not dissing pakistanis?
from time to time u lash out at a pakistani on this forum… what would u say bout that?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
CA,
If someone is discussing the culture, even the bad bits.. whats wrong with that girl?
[/QUOTE]
I don't have a problem with you guys discussing culture as long as you don't make such gross generalizations. You very well know that I hate stereotypes especially about Pakistan/Pakistanis...Just like you guys can't stand someone making bad comments about western desis or their culture!
I personally have nothing against you or Nadia or anyone on this forum but that doesn't mean I'll take your racist remarks about Pakis as compliments. I am a Pakistani, what do you expect me to feel when you say such things about my country and people that aren't even true!?