Who says...

…Islam restricts women?

~ ~ ~
There are a few jokes going around Morocco at the moment about the new female members of parliament. For example: when the women get together in committees, instead of discussing policy, they will be exchanging recipes and the names of their dressmakers.

It is the Moroccan male’s way of coming to terms with the greater public presence of women here, particularly in one of the last male bastions - politics. But the women are not intimidated. The 35 elected MPs have a higher level of education than their average male counterpart, and most of them have had to work harder than the men to get there.

“When I started in politics there were very few women,” says Nezha Skalli, a new MP for the Progress and Socialism Party (PPS). “We fought and fought, and tried to explain that our country couldn’t become developed without women participating in democracy.” A dynamic 52-year-old pharmacist, Nezha joined Morocco’s former communist party at the age of 19.

Finding that women had particular problems that were not being addressed - like their legal status - she shifted her focus from equality of the classes to equality of the sexes. In 1985 she co-founded the Democratic Association of Moroccan Women. It was months of lobbying by associations like hers, and political activists, that finally led to an agreement by all the parties to have a women’s list. For Nezha, who had stood for parliament many times without success, it was an historic victory.

It is the perception of women as honest and hard-working that has led many Moroccans to vote for them, believes 39-year-old Sumia Ben Khaldoune, recently elected for the Islamist Party of Justice and Development (PJD). “I noticed this when I was campaigning,” she says. “People would say: we’ve been disappointed by men for so many years. They promise all kinds of things. Then when they’re elected they just think about themselves: getting money, a house and a car. Women at least are honest.”

Sumia is married, with four children living at home. She also has a doctorate in software engineering, and taught at university before being elected. She had been in the Islamist movement since she was 18, and she runs two women’s associations. Sumia appears to lack the hard-nosed ambition of the average politician. But she is also smart and focussed about her new role. “There’s no reason why, just because we’re women, we should occupy ourselves solely with women’s issues. No, we are ordinary MPs, with the same capacity as male MPs,” she says.

It is too early to say whether the female MPs will have a different approach to politics than the men. Nezha Skalli would like all 35 of them to get together to discuss issues relating to women. One of the most pressing issues for women is reform of the moudouwana, the family law governing marriage and divorce. The previous socialist-led government tried to introduce radical changes to it in 2000 - such as raising the age of marriage for girls from 15 to 18, and outlawing polygamy.

But the government withdrew the bill after the PJD opposed it in parliament, and after the country’s various Islamist movements organised a massive rally in Casablanca against it. “The PJD did attack us when the bill was introduced, saying we were against Islam, but even they say they want to resolve the injustices against women,” she says.

Sumia accepts that the moudouwana does need reform, and says her party has put forward several proposals to the Royal Commission. She even agrees that it is an issue the women MPs could get together and discuss, although she does look a little sceptical. It will be interesting to see whether the 35 women MPs do indeed bring a culture of dialogue and diligence to Moroccan politics. What is clear is that they do not take their new responsibility lightly.

“What we have in common is that we carry the expectations of women,” says Nezha. “Women in Morocco have suffered a lot of injustice, and they continue to do so every day, and they expect us to give them justice and find solutions to their problems.” Sumia feels they have an added task: “These 35 women must prove they have ability, so that in future we won’t need a quota: people will vote for the best person, whether a man or woman.”

Finding a voice in Morocco, BBC, 14 January 2003

so where's the hue and cry asking for abolishing the 4 wives law? as long this exists all talk of womens' rights is just hypocracy.

...Islam restricts women? …..This question is put up by the author.

What Islam has to do in this article based on the political aspect of a woman, only because she is surrounded by Islamic politics.

No. This article is a total hypocrisy, if to find and praise a progressive Islam. In fact in Islam as well as in many other religions women are degraded. For example Hindus degrade women traditionally and religiously and if necessary find easy reasons for that.

Question is which Political State degrades women as per the dogmas of religion? Answer is that only Islamic States degrade women on religious grounds.

So Islam definitely restricts women. In Iran a woman can get divorce, but for that she may have to wait for 20 to 50 years and in many cases they have hired professional killers to get rid of a tyranny husband.
Whereas a man can easily divorce his wife just by performing some funny rituals and by producing two or three purchased witnesses.

My request to the author not to tell us that these Islamic States are not doing anything as per Islam, we are tired of such hypocrite replies.

Author has very smartly combined Morocco politics with religion for a bogus praise.

Jagjeevan, Please let me know in what context the Quranic verse regarding four wives was Revealed, as well as Islam's stipulation on the husband for entering into multiple marriages.

>>...only Islamic States degrade women on religious grounds.<<
Anand, The sad part is that, we have discussed Islamic-related issues numerous times previously in the past and never once has it gotten us anywhere productive. So let's just agree to disagree.

There is something very common I have found in communists and followers of Islam that both the parties do not understand when someone refuses to accept their dogmas. Not because they are bad people but because the stunt they blindly follow, do not let them open the doors….!

:flower1: i’m not in a mood to argue, Anand. Let’s just leave it as is.

Jagjeevan did not use the word Quran, or may be it is there, though it is an old trick to trap the enquirer into verses.
Yes, may be it is against Islam and Quran but we have seen one husband with two and more wives in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Uzbekistan etc…..and a Hindu film actor Dhramendra accepted Islam to have second wife and he escaped the punishment.

My knowledge is very little and may be someone will tell me if given below is wrong…..(taken from an anti Islamic site), I have delebrately removed all explanations as they were too inciting.....

Quotes from the "Holy" Quran on Women
II/223: Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate). So go to your tilth as ye will...
IV/34: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other.. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.
IV/15: (For women) If any one of your women is guilty of lewdness ...confine them until death claims them.
IV/16: (For Men) If two men among you commit indecency (sodomy) punish them both. If they repent and mend their ways, let them be. Allah is forgiving and merciful.
XXIV/6-7: As for those who accuse their wives but have no witnesses except themselves , let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies...

Quotes from Hadith TIRMZI AND OTHERS
1. If a woman's conduct is mischievous or immodest, the husband has the right to beat her up but must not break her bones. She must not allow anybody to enter the house if her husband does not like him. She has the right to expect sustenance of her husband. (TR. P 439)
2. It is forbidden for a woman to be seen by any man except her husband when she is made up or well-dressed. (TR. P 430)
3. A woman is not a believer if she undertakes a journey which may last three days or longer, unless she is accompanied by her husband, son, father
4. A woman must veil herself even in the presence of her husband's father, brother and other male relations. (TR. P 432)
5. She is forbidden to spend any money without the permission of her husband, and it includes giving food to the needy or feast to friends. (TR. P 265)
6. A wife is forbidden to perform extra prayers (NAFAL) or observe fasting (other than RAMADAN) without the permission of her husband. (TR. P 300)
7. If prostration were a legitimate act other than to God, woman should have prostrated to her husband. (TR. P 428)
8. If a man is in a mood to have sexual intercourse the woman must come immediately even if she is baking bread at a communal oven. (TR. P 428)
9. The marriage of a woman to her man is not substantive. It is precarious. For example if the father of the husband orders his son to divorce his wife, he must do so. (TR. P 440)
10. A woman who seeks KHULA i.e. divorce from her man, without a just cause, shall not enter paradise. (TR. P 440)
On the contrary, a husband can divorce his wife at will.
11. Majority of women would go to hell. (Muslim P 1431)
12. If a woman refuses to come to bed when invited by her husband, she becomes the target of the curses of angles. Exactly the same happens if she deserts her husband's bed. (Bokhari P 93)
13. Women who are ungrateful to their men are the denizens of hell; it is an act of ingratitude for a woman to say: "I have never seen any good from you." (Bokhari P 96)
14. A woman in many ways is deprived of the possession of her own body. Even her milk belongs to her husband. (Bokhari P 27) She is not allowed to practise birth control either.
Quotes From Sahih Muslim Hadith
Chapter 540.The prophet said that he saw a woman coming and going in the shape of a devil and she fascinated him. So he came to his wife, Zainab, as she was tanning leather and had sexual intercourse with her. That drove out what he felt in his heart.
Chapter 558. The prophet said: "When a man calls his wife to bed and she does not come, the husband spends the night being angry with her, and the angels curse her until morning. The one who is in heaven is displeased with her until the husband is pleased with her.
Chpater 576. The prophet said :"Woman has been created from a rib, and will in no way be straightened for you."
Another hadith expresses woman's position bluntly:
"I have not left any calamity more
hurtful to man than woman."

Chapter 619: Selling a cat, selling a dog (unless it is a working dog), and earning of prostitutes(unless they are non-muslims),... are all forbidden.
Chapter 1140: The prophet said : "The majority of those who entered the fire of Hell were women."
Malik 362:1221 Ibn Fahd said "I have some slave girls who are better than my wives, but I do not desire that they should all become pregnant. Shall I do azl(withdrawal) with them?" Hajjaj said "They are your fields of cultivation. If you wish to irrigate them do so, if not keep them dry."
The next three verses are related to each other.
Malik 364:1234 If a woman suckles a baby, she becomes its foster mother and her husband a foster father. If a man has two wives, and one suckles a boy the other a girl, the boy can not marry the girl as the foster father of each is the same.
The next verse contradicts the previous one.
Malik 364:1239 The rule pertaining to foster relationship only applies to children under 2 years. Thus (Malik 365:1243) a grown up man fed with the milk of a woman does not entail fostership.

Anand my dear, It's a pity our favourite anti-Islamic website did not mention these quotes:

And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect {XXX.21}

...live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good {IV.19}

Hadith: The best among you are those who are kindest to their wives.

anand i dont know where u get the verses from....

verse 4:15/16 wud be as follows:

15) As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).
16) And as for the two of you who are guilty thereof, punish them both. And if they repent and improve, then let them be. Lo! Allah is Relenting, Merciful.

Yes Dear Nadia, it seems there are contradictory statements in your Holy book.

Armughal, you have just provided a different translation, not very dissimilar in fact.
I would like to know what translation suits the Radical Islam!

And, I notice the word ‘women’, though better if it were ‘woman’, so that I could agree with Nadia that Islam/ Quran is against having two and more women!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anand: *
Yes Dear Nadia, it seems there are contradictory statements in your Holy book.

Armughal, you have just provided a different translation, not very dissimilar in fact.
I would like to know what translation suits the Radical Islam!

And, I notice the word ‘women’, though better if it were ‘woman’, so that I could agree with Nadia that Islam/ Quran is against having two and more women!
[/QUOTE]

women here refers to the muslim women....
not women of one person....

and whats different in the translation i provided is that its not about two men (in 2nd verse) but about two (i.e. man and woman)....

Anand,

Why don't you just openly admit that NO answer will satisfy you? i would have more respect for a bit more honesty, that way i will be prevented from wasting your time.

All you want is for someone to enter into a debate, then to perhaps regurgitate the usual excuses, misperceptions and biases against Islam. i have nothing against entering into a discussion with other nonMuslims on this board as long as they approach it with an open mind, which has occurred. i wish that would occur with yourself as well.

Take care,
nadia

:flower1::flower1::flower1:

No Dear Nadia, you are a little wrong. We have a lot in common.
Are you not against violence? You are.
Are not you against violation of freedom rights? You are.
Are you not against violation of women rights? You are.
Are you not against any kind of aggression? You are.

Then where is the difference?
If an ideology can be exploited for dirty means, for killings, for repression and against the human rights of women…….we must have all rights to question this ideology.
I want to question the ideology, whereas you escape just by putting all the blame on the exploiter.

If you open the doors, pls be assured that it would not harm you!

best rgds

^
and how do u find Islamic laws as violation of women's rights????

lets hear them one by one plz....