who is the best all round cricket player

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Originally posted by ManiaX:
**

ZZ -

How many double hundreds does Tendulkar have?
Against Australia or Pakistan or South Africa? **

How many Lara has?? two in 20 games! five centuries of which two are double centuries. SRT did not have double centuries till last year. But too has five centuries with Aussies in only 12 games, though not double ton yet. In fact Lara does not even have a century with Pak and SA which SRT has.

**

No doubt that Tendulkar has been consistent but he has'nt got the ability to turn around a game like Lara has - just remember the test match against Australia.**

Madras test against Pak. Agreed India lost by 12 runs. But it was SRT who turned the game. Well the game u mention was when Aussies were in WI, compare that with SRT when Aussies were in India.

**
Lara is a match winner - single handedly. Tendulkar has been given that label but he just doesent compare with Lara at his best..though I agree...Lara's slump has put him well down in the list. **

If u want to compare SRT in general with Lara at his best, it is not fair. Compare SRT at his best with Lara at his best.

[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited December 18, 2000).]

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Coming back to topic, i will give u a link from khel.com which discusses if Kallis is best allrounder of all in ODI.
http://cricket.khel.com/cricket/facts_figures/factfigure5.html

They give this list
CAREER ALL-ROUND PERFORMANCES
For M Runs HS Ave Ct RC Wics Best Ave Match#
JH Kallis SA 113* 3765 113* 42.30 41 2946 100 5/30 29.46 113th
CL Cairns NZ 135* 3102 115 28.20 44 4321 130 5/42 33.24 130th
CL Hooper WI 182 4612 113* 35.48 87 5548 163 4/34 34.04 131st
ST Jayasuriya SL 217 6023 189 29.97 72 6472 187 6/29 34.61 131st
Imran Khan Pak 175 3709 102* 33.41 37 4845 182 6/14 26.62 143rd
RJ Shastri Ind 150 3108 109 29.05 40 4651 129 5/15 36.05 144th
Kapil Dev Ind 225 3782 175* 23.79 71 6944 253 5/43 27.45 152nd
SR Waugh Aus 299 6897 120* 32.23 102 6676 192 4/33 34.77 152nd
WJ Cronje SA 188 5565 112 38.65 72 3966 114 5/32 34.79 158th
IVA Richards WI 187 6721 189* 47.00 101 4231 118 6/41 35.86 162nd
Wasim Akram Pak 311 3256 86 16.20 83 10286 432 5/15 23.81 289th

in this list his batting avg. is less than only richards and bowling avg. higher than only imran, kapil and akram. so that says a lot. tendulkar with 98 wkts should soon jon this club of guys with 3000+ runs and 100+wkts, though he cant be called allrounder.

[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited December 19, 2000).]

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Wasim
chris cairns
ricky ponting
glichrist
saeed
tendulkar
mcgrath
kallis
darren gough
shoaib akhter
saqi..
...
......

Gravity is not responsible for people falling in love

24

Ok Sachin at home against any team as an average of 62.97 in 34 tests with a total score of 3023.
While abroad Sachin has an average of 53.01 in 45 tests with total score of 3393.
Only a 370 run difference but in a huge 11 tests gap.
At home Sachin has a good record but abroad not so good.
Also these 45 tests are broken up as follows:

Away:
Aus: 8 tests (15 innings) with a 46.14 average.
But that is becuase he has 3 centuries 2 not outs, while he as 9 inning scores which are below 20 runs in a test.
Judge for yourself.

Eng: 6 tests, a 74 average against a ENG bowling line up - which is pretty pretty pathetic.
Heck Any player from ZIM could do that.

NZ: 6 tests and a 49 average, again against a weak bowling line up.
Very Very weak, just like ENG.

Pak: 4 tests and an average of 35, against one if not the best bowling attack in the world.
Now he did not fair that well, away from home and againsta great bowling attack.

SA: 7 tests and an average of 36, against again an excellent bowling attack.
Hmmm.. sachin does not seem so good now!!

SL: Against the worlds worst bowling line ups Sachin has a 111 average in 6 tests.
Need i say more about sachin fairing against good bowling line ups away from home??

WI: 5 tests with a 57 average.
But all the test were played after the WI team lacked any bowling depth.
The WI is the most patethic team around even though it has walsh and ambrose.

ZIM: 2 tests and an average of 14.
Now is that good or what.

As i have shown, Sachin scored well away from home against AUS, SL, ENG and WI - above 50 average.
of which 3 teams have no bowling line up what so ever.
While Against Pak and SA, he has a very bad 35 average in tests, which is not good at all at the test level.
ZZ care yo comment?

CROIRE A L'INCROYABLE

25

i am the best

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Originally posted by CM:
Ok Sachin at home against any team as an average of 62.97 in 34 tests with a total score of 3023.
While abroad Sachin has an average of 53.01 in 45 tests with total score of 3393.

I am sure many batsman will die to have this 'mediocre average' of 53 abroad or even at home. (richards abroad 50.5, miandad abroad 45.8, gavaskar abroad 52.11, lara abroad 40.1, saeed anwar abroad 48.23,
steve averages abroad higher than sachin though at 55.97 as of now.)

**
Only a 370 run difference but in a huge 11 tests gap.
At home Sachin has a good record but abroad not so good.
Also these 45 tests are broken up as follows:

Away:
Aus: 8 tests (15 innings) with a 46.14 average.
But that is becuase he has 3 centuries 2 not outs, while he as 9 inning scores which are below 20 runs in a test.
Judge for yourself.**

Oh! In that case remove 2 triple centuries and 10 double centuries of Bradman and discuss his record. Centuries and not out outs do not come free of charge.

**
Eng: 6 tests, a 74 average against a ENG bowling line up - which is pretty pretty pathetic.
Heck Any player from ZIM could do that.**

Did any Zim player do it? Please let us know.

**
NZ: 6 tests and a 49 average, again against a weak bowling line up.
Very Very weak, just like ENG.**
OK!

**
Pak: 4 tests and an average of 35, against one if not the best bowling attack in the world.**

This was in 1989-90 when Sachin was 16-17. Pakistani pitches are not much different from Indian pitches, anyway, definitely not fast and/or bouncy.

**
Now he did not fair that well, away from home and againsta great bowling attack.

SA: 7 tests and an average of 36, against again an excellent bowling attack.
Hmmm.. sachin does not seem so good now!!**

Let us know, how many have better average.

**
SL: Against the worlds worst bowling line ups Sachin has a 111 average in 6 tests.
Need i say more about sachin fairing against good bowling line ups away from home??**

SL is worse than NZ??

**
WI: 5 tests with a 57 average.
But all the test were played after the WI team lacked any bowling depth.
The WI is the most patethic team around even though it has walsh and ambrose.**

Of course WI is worse than NZ in that case by ur logic.

**
ZIM: 2 tests and an average of 14.
Now is that good or what.**

ZIMbabwe must be an outstanding bowling attack.

In case you missed it Sachin averages just 18 against Bangladesh. Bangladeshi bowling attack must be better than WI, England, Australia. Zimbabwe and Bangladesh where SRT has lowest average must have the cream of bowling attacks in world by your logic.

[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited December 19, 2000).]

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ALL OF THE PLAYERS IN THE WORLD PLEASE

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Well ZZ - if we were to compare Lara at his best and Tendulkar at his best then we would easily have to say that Lara's best was during 1993-1994 I believe - but what about Tendulkar? Do you believe hes had his best or is currently at his best>? Because if he is..then hes way behind Lara.

Anyway, these stats can be extremely misleading. Tendulkar just has'nt shone as Lara has in Big Games outside of India - remember Lara's 277 in Australia? That was one of the best innings you can ever see.

Lara - even during his current slump - has shown remarkable ability to perform in preassure games against big time opposition -
Tendulkar has yet to prove himself in that regard. Remember how Lara destroyed the Aussies in the WI two years ago? Or how he thrashed Akram and Younis around like club bowlers in 93?!

Lets see Tendulkar dominate a Pakistani or Australian attack like that - ( his assault on Warne in India non withstanding)

Its a matter of opinion I guess.

29

[quote]
Originally posted by ManiaX:
**Remember how Lara destroyed the Aussies in the WI two years ago? Or how he thrashed Akram and Younis around like club bowlers in 93?!

**
[/quote]

if lara destroyed Aussies in WI, SRT destroyed Aussies in India, why that does not matter. I donno which game u are talking about against pakistan. He has two half centuries against pakistan 96 and 51, both in WI, while 96 remains his highest score against pak in 7 tests. if u call it 'destroying the attack', well, good for u.

anyway, it is a matter of choice as u said. we do not see SRT helping India win as many tests as Lara does because Indian bowling attack is not even half as decent of WI even during current slump. It is so bad that recently we have seen tendulkar and yuvraj singh bowl ten overs each in a game with NZ. India does not have likes of Walsh or Ambrose or King. So the the winning chances will be lost. Afterall, all great batsman who can claim to have won tests for their teams like richards were well supported by bowlers, besides other batsman. unlike ODI's u have to get the opposition out twice in tests to win. With Agarkar and Prasad as main 'strike' bowlers besides Kumble who is plain mediocre outside India, I doubt even Bradman would be able to win tests for this team, though he may save a few games if someone could stand on other side to give him company. Jimmy Adams could at least stand and let Lara do what he wants. In recent century of SRT, highest partneship anyone had with him was of 70.

[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited December 20, 2000).]

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so i have 2 more 2 du

31

For me

Wasim Hasan Raja was the best.

Have A Take
Don't Suck......

32

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ZZ:
** . I donno which game u are talking about against pakistan. He has two half centuries against pakistan 96 and 51, both in WI, while 96 remains his highest score against pak in 7 tests. if u call it 'destroying the attack', well, good for u.

Actually, I was talking about ODI on that occasion. In 93 - Lara tore Akram and Younis apart in the West Indies. He may not have done well in Tests against Pakistan - for that matter neither has Tendulkar. Chennai was a good innings but he didnt finish the job, did he.

anyway, it is a matter of choice as u said. we do not see SRT helping India win as many tests as Lara does because Indian bowling attack is not even half as decent of WI even during current slump.

Agreed. If the Indians continue to think of Agarkar as a strike bowler then no wonder their bowling attack sucks. It's an age old argument - but you would think that with so many people in India - they`d at least have a couple of quality fast bowlers! I guess everyone wants to try their luck in Bollywood rather than the cricket field!

33

[quote]
Originally posted by ManiaX:
**
[QUOTE]

Agreed. If the Indians continue to think of Agarkar as a strike bowler then no wonder their bowling attack sucks. It's an age old argument - but you would think that with so many people in India - they`d at least have a couple of quality fast bowlers! I guess everyone wants to try their luck in Bollywood rather than the cricket field!**
[/quote]

Bishan Bedi has a opinion that fast bowling is the hardest job in cricket. it requires really, really hard work and Indians are too laid back for the job. So lack of genuine quickies is not new. So they make pitches which are essentially bowls of mud and win tests on tailor-made pitches at home. The same pitches which dont give an iota of support to pace bowler are in domestic cricket. Secondly selections are confusing. Kumaran and Ganesh did not do badly. None knows why they were dropped.

Not that things are better in spin department either. SRT regularly goes for less runs than specialist spinners like Joshi. In fact according to Shrikanth, bnest is kamwaljit singh who is 42 in offspinners. Another menance of corrupt cricketors is forunately reduced, thanks to Hansie Cronje.

I have some hopes from Zaheer Khan. It is said that Harbhajan is coming good. Let us see.

34

[quote]
Originally posted by ZZ:
** Bishan Bedi has a opinion that fast bowling is the hardest job in cricket. it requires really, really hard work and Indians are too laid back for the job. So lack of genuine quickies is not new.

I have some hopes from Zaheer Khan. It is said that Harbhajan is coming good. Let us see. **
[/quote]

Thats a pretty silly escuse dont you think?I mean no offence to Bedi - I happen to like the chap - but thats really lame!For that matter-since the West Indians hate hard work and love to party - how did they have the best fast bowling attack of the 70's and 80's ?

Zaheer Khan is a good prospect for India. At the moment, Srinath is the only decent bowler in the side. That guy tries his heart out each time. He`s a hard worker. Prasad and Agarkar though are club bowlers. Sure, they may shine in a while, but if India is to compete abroard - and not just rejoice at having an "overseas win against Bangladesh"
they should continue with Zaheer and look for more bowlers like him.

Kumble - well this guy is a mystery. He has all the tools to be succcesful abroad but he hasnt delivered. Maybe its a confidence problem.

[This message has been edited by ManiaX (edited December 20, 2000).]

35

[quote]
Originally posted by ManiaX:
** Thats a pretty silly escuse dont you think?I mean no offence to Bedi - I happen to like the chap - but thats really lame!For that matter-since the West Indians hate hard work and love to party - how did they have the best fast bowling attack of the 70's and 80's ?
**
[/quote]

well the fast bowlers have definitely worked hard for what they are. they have higher standard of physical fitness than spinner like Warne or batsman like Inzi or Rantunga need not have. If they want to maintain it, they have to work hard.

Part could be genetic. Blacks have in general better physical fitness than Whites and Asians. Jatts and Sardars who are big guys in India have not taken cricket very seriously. Likes of 5 ft. 7 inch, 58 kg, marathi brahmin Agarkar who looks more like advertisement for malnutrition can't really give u a genuine quickie.

Part could be cultural. In India major sport related activity is to watch games on TV. In west everyone has a favourite sport which they maintain till 60's. In India, u dont play any longer once u are say, 10-12. In general, how much sports matter in Indian's lives. Even stretching exercises in morning start only in 40's after doctor recommends it and discontinued in no time. We are not talking of class which is too deprived and cant afford luxaries like sport. We are talking of middle class here and they do not play.

In older times, the way of life made it necessary that one has to do certain physical work. Today, things are relatively comfortable, sports are part of life only with upper class elite and we are watching an epidemic of diabetes in India.

Finally, it could be lack of role models. It is not just coincidence that Pakistan started churning quickies with regularity only after success of Imran. Except Kapil, there was no real role model and Kapil was more of medium pacer. More of an enigma. Yesterday Agarkar broke Kapil's record of fastest 50 by taking one ball less. Of course, difference was that Kapil's record was vs. WI in WI in 1982-83 and Aggy did it with Zimbabwe in India. anyway, that is besides the point.

I think it is a mixture of these things.

[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited December 20, 2000).]

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The Best ALL ROUND player should be an ALL ROUNDER
currently....ABDUR RAZZAQ!!

his bowling is way better than Kallis...maybe not his batting...but he can still bat to save pakistan....remember his 60-something vs australia during the Carlton & United series?!?

We don't always see what our eyes can see.

37

For me the best player in the world ever has to be ......

Chetan Chauhan of India 1986 .......

for bowling the best ball ever in cricket- to allow Javed to hit a six on the last ball in Sharjah!!

(At least I think it was Chetan Chauhan???)

38

that was chetan sharma who bowled a full toss. i think that feat was equalled only once by klussner winning game by a six on last bowl.

39

What bout Cris Cairns n Razzaq.Cairns is a good allrounder as well a Razzaq was during da world cup.u guys talking of brian lara or someone inzamam.are they allrounder if so then jo chor ki saza woh meri.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/sleep.gif

40

Here's what the Australians have to say on Sachin vs. Lara.

Australian players rate Tendulkar and McGrath best in the business
AFP - 17 November 2000

SYDNEY, Nov 17 (AFP) - India's Sachin Tendulkar and Australia's Glenn McGrath have been rated the best in the business in a survey of Australia's 145 first class players.

Sixty eight percent of those questioned said Tendulkar was the world's best batsman ahead of Australian captain Steve Waugh (27 percent) and West Indian Brian Lara (three percent).

Australian paceman McGrath was the runaway winner as the player's choice of world's best bowler with 61 percent of the vote.

Shane Warne was second and Curtley Ambrose of the West Indies third.

Waugh was rated Australia's best cricketer ahead of McGrath and Warne. Surpisingly, Adam Gilchrist got the nod as the top one-day Australian player ahead of Michael Beven and Ricky Ponting.

Almost half of those questioned said they had no confidence in the International Cricket Council's ability to run the game on an global scale while 88 percent said cricket should be concerned with the demise of the West Indies, England and India.