Who is more important and why

Society Religion & Philosophy
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LA ILAHA ILALA MUHAMMAD UR RASOOL ALLAH

The highest power and authority is ofcourse Allah’s. He is one and only and
nobody is alongside him or above him in rank, power or respect.

Among all humans, Muhammad (pbuh) is the one most important, most respected. The highest in rank and in power.

Now the important question, who is to come next.

Is it :

(a) the Caliphs, starting with Hazrat Abu Bakr, Hazrat Omar, Hazrat Osman and Hazrat Ali ?

(b) Hazrat Ali, followed by the line of Imams.

Also could you include the reasons why you choose which one.

Thankyou and God Bless.

2

quote:

Originally posted by raptor:
Now the important question, who is to come next.

Is it :

(a) the Caliphs, starting with Hazrat Abu Bakr, Hazrat Omar, Hazrat Osman and Hazrat Ali ?

(b) Hazrat Ali, followed by the line of Imams.

Also could you include the reasons why you choose which one.

Thankyou and God Bless.**

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Bhai Raptor, do you believe that in islam everything is based on justice? would you agree with me that if somebody commited crimes himself than that person has no right to be the judge for other people. (if you agree with me so far than read ahead otherwise move on to other postings.)simmilarly Allah being the best justice will only nominate somebody to rule muslim ummah who is sin free(never commited a crime). let me tell you about an event that happened in hazrat umar's rule.this event is reported in all history books because it shows hazrat umar's justice. when hazrat umar's son commited adultery hazrat umar sentenced his own son to death by stoning. when his son was half burried in ground and people were about to throw stones at him he said that justice is that only who has never commited any sin himself can cast the first stone. hearing that all muslims who were holding stones in their hands dropped the stones except three people in whole makkah. and they were hazrat ali(a.s) and his two sons(a.s). so you see that most logical choice in the whole muslim ummah was ahlulbaith (a.s). Ahlulbaith never commited any idol worshipping or any other sin, as allah said in quran that allah(s.t)has kept all kind of rijs (sin) away from ahlulbaith. this reasoning is enough if you are seriously looking for truth. god bless you too.
wassalam.

3

Bhai Raptor lets try to find the right person for khilafat by process of elimination.

we have four options Hazrat abbu bakar, hazrat umar,hazrat usman and hazrat ali. lets look at hazrat abbu bakar first:

according to sahai bukhari The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "Fatimah is part of me, he who angers her angers me, and he who angers me angers Allah(st)"
Sahih, Bukhari, vol 2 p 206 .

According to Hazrat Aishah, Fatimah- may Allah's peace be upon her - daughter of the Prophet, sent a message to hazrat Abu Bakr asking him for her share of the inheritance of the Messenger of Allah, but he refused to pay Fatimah anything of it. Fatimah became so angry at Abu Bakr that she left him and never spoke to him before her death.

Sahih, Bukhari, vol 3 p 39
so a person who angered allah CAN NOT be the right choice for khalifatul muslimeens.
furthermore in sahai bukhari hazrat abubakar was mentioned as " If Allah knew that Abu Bakr had such a high degree of faith, and that his faith exceeded the faith of all Muslims, Allah - praise be upon Him - would not have had to threaten him that He would spoil his work when he raised his voice above the Prophet's voice.
Sahih, Bukhari, vol 4 p 184

just imagine the eeman of a person who raises his voice above prophet's voice.

Now look at hazrat umar. he is quoted as saying
"I wish I was my family's sheep. They would have fattened me up to the maximum. When they were visited by friends, they would have killed me and roasted part of me, and made qadid (meat cut into strips and dried) from the other part of it, then they would have eaten me, and lastly, they would have relieved me with their bowle evacuation ... I wish I had been all that, rather than a human being."

Minhaj as Sunnah, Ibn Taymiyya, vol 3 p 131
Hilyat al Awliya, Ibn Abi Nuaym, vol 1 p 52
now judge yourself can a person who thinks about himself so low be a khalifatul muslaimeen.
by the way hazrat abbu bakar said the simmilar things about himself. e.g "He looked at a bird on a tree, then said, "Well done bird ... You eat the fruits, you stand on the trees and you are not accountable to anybody nor indeed can anybody punish you. I wish I was a tree by the road, and that a camel would come along and eat me. then relieve me with his bowel evacuation ... I wish that I had been all that, rather than a human being."

Tarikh, Tabari, p 41
al Riyadh al Nadira, vol 1 p 134
Kanz al Ummal, p 361
Minhaj as Sunnah, Ibn Taymiyya, vol 3 p 120

He also said, I wish that my mother had not given birth to me ... I wish I was a straw in the mud.

Tarikh, Tabari, p 41
al Riyadh al Nadira, Tatabri, vol 1 p 134
Kanz al Ummal, p 361
Minhaj as Sunnah, Ibn Taymiyya, vol 3 p 120

Hazrat umar was also responsible for Bibi Fatima's shahadat when he tried to burn her house and broke the door of her house on her.

now look at hazrat ali (a.s)
I am not going to go into many many many hadees e rasool(pbuh) that describe his character. I will just tell you a small true story about an old woman. In haroon rasheed's empire, haroon heard that there is a shia old woman who praises hazrat ali (a.s) all the time even though it was forbidden in his kingdom. he summoned her in his court and asked her if it was true that she praises ali a.s all the time? she said yes. haroon said I will give you a chance to prove me that Hazrat ALI a.s really deserves all your praise.
old women said why shouldn't i praise ali so much he was better than 1)nabi adam a.s, adam a.s was told by allah not to go near the grain of wheat but adam a.s ate the wheat anyway. but my moula never touched wheat all his life because of that. he only ate jou.
2) my moula was better then nabi ibrahim a.s because nabi ibrahim asked allah to show him just one flash of himself because his heart was not fully convinced. my moula said that if you put sun on my right hand and moon on my left hand even then i will not have any doubt about allah's presence. 3) when nabi mousa a.s was asked by allah to go and preach islam to a particular tribe the nabi said that he was afraid of his life because long time ago he had killed a member of that tribe and was afraid that now they might take the revenge and kill him too. my moula ali a.s was asked by rassol(pbuh) to sleep on his bed when he migrates to madina, next day ali a.s said that i never had such a good sleep in my life before, he wasn't afraid of the kuffars who had planned to kill rasool in his sleep. Ali a.s is the only person in whole universe who was born in KABA and died in mosque.
guess what haroon killed that old women. allah o akbar.

now i think i made the selection very easy for you. please please let us know who did you select and why.
god bless you.
wassalam

4

[quote]
Originally posted by raptor:
** LA ILAHA ILALA MUHAMMAD UR RASOOL ALLAH

Now the important question, who is to come next.

Is it :

(a) the Caliphs, starting with Hazrat Abu Bakr, Hazrat Omar, Hazrat Osman and Hazrat Ali ?

(b) Hazrat Ali, followed by the line of Imams.

Also could you include the reasons why you choose which one.

Thankyou and God Bless.**
[/quote]

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Bhai raptor please tell us if the history starts again and we go back 1400 years ago,who would you side for khilafatul muslimeens? please give reasons too if you don't mind.

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[quote]
Originally posted by Gubber Singh:
*Bhai Raptor lets try to find the right person for khilafat by process of elimination.
we have four options Hazrat abbu bakar, hazrat umar,hazrat usman and hazrat ali. lets look at hazrat abbu bakar first: *
[/quote]

I am saddened after reading your reply brother. It is true that I have never heard these statements made by these great Caliphs before and I will try to read up more about it. In the meanwhile, since these statements hold no strength to nullify or lessen the achievements of these great Sahaba during and after the life of the Prophet PBUH.

If I were you I'd be perplexed why the great Prophet PBUH would consider these men to be at his side, to be one of the Sahaba. I beleive he was the greatest of friends with Hadrat Abu Bakr. I wonder why.

I beleive Hadrat Ali was a great caliph. He was one of the finest Human Beings as well, loved by many people when he was alive, and even more after his death. But even though I respect him and admire his great deeds and character, I would not dare to admonish the other caliphs for what they did. Nor would I disrespect them, for these are the men that my great Prophet PBUH choose to be by his side.

Who would I have chosen for caliphate back then? If Hadrat Ali had no problem with Hadrat Abu Bakr or Hadrat Omar or Hadrat Osman being caliphs before him, then whom am I to raise differences.

I accept the caliphs as they came. They are all equal in rank for me. I admire them all and disrespect none. I am sorry but I can't say that what happened was wrong simply because the person wished to be a tree at one point in his life.

I hope you find my answer satisfactory and I seek forgivness if my answer upsets anybody.

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[quote]
Who would I have chosen for caliphate back then? If Hadrat Ali had no problem with Hadrat Abu Bakr or Hadrat Omar or Hadrat Osman being caliphs before him, then whom am I to raise differences.
**
[/quote]

Actually contrary to popular belief, Hazrat Ali did have a problem with it. As I know it, Hazrat Ali went to houses of the people of Makkah. He asked them , "Were you not witnesses to the event at Ghadeer", and people replied like "We don't remember". Then Hazrat Ali cursed them for lying.
After this event Hazrat Ali was so saddened by the actions of the Ummah that he did not want to be Caliph again. Even when people asked him to be the 4th Caliph he said No.
But since it was in the higher interest of the Ummah he accepted it.

Shah-e-Mardan Sher-e-Yazdan,
Quwwat-e-Parwardigar,
Lafatah illa ALI,
La Saif ila Zulfiqar
========================
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Neither (a) nor (b) as Allah (swt) has said (close translation) "The best among you is the one who is pious". It is for Allah (swt) to decide who is right and who is wrong so please avoid asking these questions which bring Fitna among muslims as our limited knowledge is unable to judge the pious people of that time.

8

i find it hard to believe that the muslims started indulging in politics of power, immediately after the death of the prophet(pbuh).

that would be implyingthat the prophet (pbuh) was surrounded by ppl that were power hungry and not were not sincere when the prophet (pbuh) was alive.

like,, i said.. highly unlikely

[This message has been edited by nomaan (edited April 02, 2001).]

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[quote]
Originally posted by Lashkar-e-Abbas:
**
"Were you not witnesses to the event at Ghadeer", and people replied like "We don't remember".
**
[/quote]

Brother Lashkar,

could you recommend some places where I could find more info on Ghadeer. Websites or books.

Thankyou.

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sorry bros, I didn't know there was a private conversation going on.

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http://www.al-islam.org/real/36.htm

**…History tells us beyond this incident that Anas remained hating Imam Ali as long as he lived, and that he was the one whose testimony was sought by Ali on “the Day of the Rahba” to testify to his having heard the Ghadeer hadith, but he concealed his testimony. It was then that the Imam (peace be upon him) invoked Allah to curse him: the man hardly left the place before being afflicted with leprosy. **

Shah-e-Mardan Sher-e-Yazdan,
Quwwat-e-Parwardigar,
Lafatah illa ALI,
La Saif ila Zulfiqar
========================
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I think i read somewhere that only Allah can decide who is preferred over someone else. I dont feel qualified to make that decision as I am only a human.

On a second note, there are numerous other prophets (e.g. Ibrahim, Nooh, isaa, Musaa, suleman, dawood, etc)that we did not mention. I assume all prophets have a higher status than others.