Based on the divides that we already had and still have - we need leader of Jinnah’s caliber to make Pakistan a melting pot to blur the lines of ethnic, linguistic, economic divides.
Not the types when Gohar Ayub takes out processions to instigate certain ethnic group rivalry. Not the types when Caste / Sect / Creed was deliberately overblown to further divide the country in documented blue prints by Zia and his cronies (including GIK) to keep the attention away from unaccountable rulers. Not the types that fearing BB will win Provincial Punjab elections in 1988 so we started chanting:
Jaa’ag Punjabi Jaa’ag Teri Pag Nou Lag Gaye Aag
by legacy left by Mard e Momin in the name of Nawaz.
We needed a statesman like Jinnah and our country would have been much better than what it is today; had we had even Nehru’s caliber leader to blur the lines that these power hungry leaders (e.g., PMLN) are hell bent upon keeping vivid and clear to remain in power.
My reply to your initial post was in reference to the highlighted part, where you stated that no country in the world is divided in two part where one part is 1600km away from the other. This division was due to the fact where muslims were in majority and there were only two choices either to take the eastern wing or leave it. Mr. Jinnah along with other leaders had accepted it.
So don’t you think Mr. Jinnah along with others may have envisioned the consequence of what would happen to a country that is geographically divided like that? Was it wrong or right?
Quaid was asked at one point how would Pakistan manage its eastern wing and he gave the example of Hawaii. Relatively speaking Hawaii has been treated equally by the US govt. which has given all its states full autonomy unlike Pakistan unfortunately.
Based on the fact that there is past precedence where a poor country could manage that kind of distance between it’s two parts with a hostile country in between.
I have not read anywhere Jinnah gave that statement; but if we are to analyze it now; would you compare Hawaii with rest of the states in US with East & West Pakistan ? I might be wrong but it’s apples to oranges kind of comparison. But better comparison could be Alaska - Russia to US. No?
Plus; even if it was; US was lucky to have Statesmen at the initial stages while things would have been different if Jinnah lived at least 10-15 years after the creation of Pakistan.
I still would have answered the same as I did earlier;
Perhaps Jinnah envisioned that he would not die so soon after the creation of Pakistan or he might have misjudged his team’s capability to keep the country bonded together in it’s infancy stage- both did not happen!
Without an iota of doubt - but who would prove it?
When even after being a blue eyed boy of Establishment - Nawaz could not prove Zardari as Corrupt (in the court of law), nor could prove anything against MQM be it Bhattha or Target Killing - so till proven guilty - all are innocent - No?
Only corrupt is IK As per Jang Group and PML-N and JUI-F and their followers
that is so correct. that is exzctly what nawaz and plmn did on panama leaks…they are saying that everyone else is doing it, so why coming after us? pathetic attitude
and honestly speaking, PTI and its followers are also worst offenders of this sort of behavior…imran can make no mistake whatsoever in their books, PTIans will use the most filthiest language to harass those who criticize imran or pti and will never answer on merit and will also start pointing fingers on accusers.
But he is telling the truth. Why can not Pakistani digest the truth? The fact he lied about his properties in foreign countries and tried to prove the richest man in Pakistan in 1973. He was non existent, no one knew him then. Dr. Mubbashar Hassan was then Finance Minister and key person in ZAB’s cabinet to fulfill the promise of socialist system of government. People then still had some morals and honesty including this finance minister. He is telling the 100% truth about N$. There is absolutely no reason why shouldn’t he resign and be investigated about his off-shore properties.
**i have said this so many times and I will continue to say, so that everyone can understand what are we trying to achieve here.
**
no one is stopping anyone from expressing their opinion but lets do it in a civil way without any name calling, blatant labeling or obnoxious titles about any leader, any institution, any community or a party. That is all. Am i asking for too much? Showing up in the forum with one line post that xyz leader is a thug or a liar, or a zani, or a prostitute is just not a civil way of having discussion and we will not tolerate it. Now yes, we do miss some posts as we are not robots and we do appreciate and expect members to report them and we will take action as we have been in last one month or so.
This forum belongs to you guys more than me. Pls help us in making it more civilized and i promise you, no one will stop you from expressing anything as long as it is civilized and not in conflict with GS and PA charter. thx
It’s your opinion (re who uses more filthy language), I have no barometer to judge who uses more filthy language but I had the “honor” of being in possession of the character assassination campaign of BB and Nusrat Bhutto by IJI’s cell of which one member was quite recent Pak Ambassador to US.
I have not heard nor seen more filthy campaign than that one - Mohammad Khan Junejo was against it and the cell was stationed in H Block Model Town-Lahore.
If I just write down four of the slogans that IJI was using against BB and Nusrta Bhutto, I should be rightfully banned for life.
Have we ever wondered why our major political parties (PPP and PMLN) are always available on sale 24/7?
It’s basic human instinct to be in power - that too an absolute one.
My point is: if Nawaz and company use dubious methods to reach power echelons they will always be available for sale and will always be in compromised position - no matter how big claims he makes re being democrat - it will be a complete hogwash and no betterment of the system will take place as this rotten system is the sole reason why he has this premiership.
And people who rant the mantra that with passage of time it will get better are living in fools paradise; as beneficiary of this institutionalized corruption (by PPP and PMLN) has disabled the basic tenets required for any positive change and it’s a fact that institutional disability allows Sharif’s and Zardaris to be in power.
**
Again; has ANY institution in Pakistan gotten ANY better in last 8 years? **
This is the viscous circle created by army. It has to decide whether they want to be professional or current corrupt political army playing this game for decades. Any wrong doing such as corruption and creation of terrorist are absolutely due to armys actions no one to be blamed. In view of this vicious circle it is impossible for common people to distinguish right from wrong.
Nawaz is Anti Establishment ( at least in the eyes of his supporters - although I completely differ from this pov), and PPP has always been lesser favorite child of Establishment (Army + Judiciary + Bureaucracy) so in last 8 years, which areas of the economy, health, education, infrastructure, energy and any civilian institutions has gotten better?
**
Let’s keep Foreign Affairs / Security out of this debate for PMLN supporters sake.
**
Again; Which areas / sections of the civil institutions has gotten better in last 8 years - when we compare the functioning of CIVILIAN institutions (including police, bureaucracy and judiciary) has gotten better in 2016 as compared to 2008?**
One thing is clear. Sitting PM and President can not differ with CAOS on any issue. The moment they differ a heavy boots will strike on their butts. This limited type of rule is actually ruining the institutions. All things are inter related with my first sentence. Have you ever seen judiciary gave any decision on the illegal actions of holy cows? Except during ZAb’s rule, the justince Humudur Rahman Commission made these holy cows responsible for disaster of 1971 and N$ in 1999 for replacing CAOS. ZAB was killed, N$ was booted out and sent to prison for 25 years.
But these are off-tangent discussions nothing to do with your thread. Your post #31](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=31) needed a new thread and I will be happy to participate. Back to the topic N$ definitely lied he should be impeached or resign.
All I am asking is; Has any betterment taken place in Finance, Health, Education, Bureaucracy, Justice, Police, Revenue, FBR, FIA, Infrastructure, Energy?
Let’s leave matters that most believe are controlled by Army; Foreign Affairs (pertaining to Afghanistan, US, India, Iran, and China).
Have you witnessed huge betterment as Pro Pakistan Nawaz and Zardari have been in power for last 8 years in any of the following?
Finance (Army does not care about anything in this regards - I had been country head of a major bank in Pakistan)
Energy (Army does not care about who Political Govt., signs MOU with etc.,)
Education (Army does not care how many University / Schools are built by Political Governments)
Bureaucracy (DMG, Police, Customs, Income Tax etc., Army does not give a hoot to how these are being run)
Election Commission (Army does not care how it is being constituted and run)
Judiciary (It is one institution which has it’s own massive corruption - as an example even the likes of Justice Lone - who was considered one of the most clean Justice gave in due to various reasons - but Army does not play any role in it)
Police (Army does not care about this)
FBR (Army does not care about FBR)
FIA
Communications
List goes on and on…
So every incompetency of Nawaz and Zardari can not be that easily put into Army’s bucket. It has been too easy to play a blame game - but my point is that PMLN and PPP are incompetent to run the affairs of the country even if you take out Foreign Policy out of the equation.
As for Judiciary not taking up cases against Army; how many cases have been proven against:
Zardari
N$
Just an example: Have you not heard the tapes of Justice Qayoom how decisions are taken when bank accounts of Judges were filled by Sharif’s?
I am not saying Army does not fiddle with bought out parties like PMLN and PPP, but there are several things in which Army does not meddle at all and to keep cursing Army for political follies and terming them as “becharey” is too much of an overstatement and it is this political line that corrupt parties and leaders take.
When they fail in anything (mentioned in above); they say we were not allowed to work.
As per Jang Group and PML-N and JUI-F and their followers