Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

Though Allah will determine who is Shaheed on the Judgment day, depending on the intention (neyaat) of the person, for Muslims there is little choice regarding calling someone Shaheed or not. Allah has already told Muslims who can be called Shaheed and who cannot. Since Allah has told Muslims what qualifies a person to be called Shaheed, a Muslim only need to know the reason and background of death and if dead person qualifies as Shaheed, Muslims should call that person Shaheed. In same way, if a dead person does not qualify to be called Shaheed, it is wrong to call such person Shaheed. [Sometime there are ambiguous reasons for death and in such cases Muslims can still call a person Saheed, without sin].

One reason of death that qualifies a person to be called Shaheed is to die performing their duty. All soldiers that died in Lal building fiasco died performing their duty, and thus they are all Shaheed.

As for those that died fighting the soldiers were criminals, and thus they cannot be called Shaheed. Calling killed criminals Shaheed would be making joke of the word Shaheed. These people were criminals and were breaking the laws of the country, and thus got killed by the soldiers.

Note: One should not compare these criminals with people that fight state for their rights, rights to live the way they like to live or rights to practice their religion, where their way of lives and religious practice does not affect others. These criminals can not be compared with group of people living on land occupied by a country and thus fighting for independence of the land they live. These criminals were not fighting the state for things that are to do with their personal lives and religious duties that does not affect others. Actually, these criminals were doing various crimes throughout, and it was duty of state (Pakistan) to save other citizens from their crimes and stop them doing such crimes at all cost.

Some of the lists of their crimes:

They illegally occupied acres of land that did not belong to them, and built buildings on them (calling that building Madrassa), and that was crime.

They illegally occupied acres of land to extend a Mosque (Lal Mosque) that was given to them to run, and that was crime. [Such place that was mostly built on illegally occupied land could not be called Mosque, as to call that place Mosque ‘house of Allah’ would be accusing Allah of being corrupt, unjust, and thief, thus it would be a big sin].

They illegally occupied children library and kept it occupying by force, and that was crime.

They had illegal arms with them that they were openly showing, and that was crime.

They terrorized other co-citizens living in the area (who had same right in Pakistan as them), and that was crime.

They took laws in their hand and were openly inciting others to take laws in their hand, and that was crime.

They attacked other people businesses and interfered with their lives, and that was crime.

They kidnapped others, including police and rangers, and that was crime.

They vandalise other people’s property in their area (including girl’s school) and that was crime.

They were threatening the state with their arms and suicide bombing, and that was crime.

They were not allowing state functionaries to enter building they occupied illegally, and that was crime.

They snatched rifles of rangers, and that was crime.

They vandalized and burned government buildings, and that was crime.

There are many in the list of their crimes … Etc … etc … etc.

Actually, these people were breaking many laws of Pakistan. Throughout, state (Pakistan) was tolerating them so that they would come to their senses (something no state would tolerate this much), still they did not realized. They kept pushed their luck and tolerance of state, to bring the situation to such extend that many citizens living in the state (and outside world) started feeling that there is only anarchy and no government writ in Pakistan.

Situation became so bad that many citizens of Pakistan started getting impatient and feeling insecure. Fortunately, time came when state acted, though still kept trying to negotiate with them retards (that was wrong of the state, but still state went along), but then when negotiation failed, state let loose their power, still these criminals did not surrendered but started fighting the state and thus got killed. Now, it is anyone’s guess that such criminals cannot be called Shaheed, as calling them Shaheed would be making joke of the word Shaheed.

Some other ambiguities of this operation: Jame-e-Hafza was a women only Madrassa. It was not a co-education Madrassa. So, we have to think what all those Male terrorists with arms doing there?

Example of making other do anything by force (right and wrong does not matter): As for making others do what a person likes (regardless of it being Islamic, non-Islamic, or misguided Islam), it is completely against Islam.

Just imagine: Suppose anyone started interpretation of Islam wrongly and started believing that to keep beard is haram. Than that person start a group, that reaches to 10000 heavily armed militants, who then stops everyone on the road and start shaving beard of anyone with beard. Would that be fine? Suppose that a Muslim passes with beard (put yourself in his place) and they caught him, beat him, kidnap him and take him to their den, where they tell him that his keeping beard is against Islam and that if he do not have beard, it would be ibadah. Then they shave his beard. They further warn him that next time he is seen with beard he would be shot dead.

Well, this man knows Islam and knows that these people are misguided and to keep beard is sunnah of Prophet (SAW). Nevertheless, if that person stops keeping beard so that they do not harm him, would this person be doing that for Allah or in fear of these criminals? If he is doing that in fear of these criminals, would it be not that these criminals are making him do ibadah to them (as according to them beard is haram and thus they are forcing others to stop keeping beard as Ibadah). Obviously, these criminals would not be doing all this for Allah and thus it would be Fitna.

Similarly: Forcing others to keep beard who do not want to keep beard would be same. If anyone would force them without beard and other start keeping beard because of fear, they would not be making other do Ibadah to Allah but Ibadah to themselves. That would be fitna. If anyone wants other to keep beard, they have to diligently argue, and convince others in most decent way, but even then others do not want to, they should just leave others alone peacefully. Else they would not be making anyone do Ibadah but would be creating Fitna. It is duty of state to stop all sort of fitna in the country.

In such situation, what is the duty of state? Is it not that to fight these militant criminals and finish them? If state duty is to fight and finish these criminals (who force others to shave), then it is same duty of state to fight and finish any criminals that force others to do what they think is right (regardless of it being right or wrong). At least state should ask these criminals to stop all their activities of forcing their own laws and if they do not understand the language of words, they should be stopped with language of force. If state personnel dies in the hand of these criminals than obviously that state personal died performing his duty, and would have got Shaheed.

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

May allah bless every1 !ameen

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

Allah(SWT) is the best judge..HE (SWT) is not going to listen to this (or any other) BS explanantion about who's what !! we better mind our own 'aamaal' to which only we will be answerable&accountable to !

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

We dnt really knw who was right and who did wrong, May Allah bless them

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

Good points Saleem1.

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

May Allah, the Biggest and Best Judge bless all...according to their deeds as per His Judgment.

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

being a soldier in pakistani armed forces doesn't give an automatic entitlement of a shaheed. infact, if any one of them knowingly shed the blood of the innocent, which ever side they maybe, then may Allah reward them with due punishment and hold them to account..we don't know the facts..only He does

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

it seems its very easy for some to call a living person murtid, mushrik, kaffir etc, but they shy away from calling someone shaheed or not.

go figure...

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

Whoever died for the sake of Allah and not for the sake of Musharraf and Bush is a Shaheed, I don't know why this is so hard for some people to understand.
All of them who died were muslims or even they believed in One God Allah so Let Allah be their judge and ask maghfirah for them.

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

Sister, those who die for the sake of Allah do not die as criminals resisting arrest. Or do they? Those who die as criminals resisting arrest cannot be Shaeed, could they?

As for those soldiers, they died for Pakistan performing their duty, trying to arrest criminals, what would you call them, other than Shaheed?

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

Well put Hareem.

Let Allah be the Judge, because He is the Only True Judge.

And we do know who died for Allah's sake. Because Allah's sake is mankind's sake more than anything, because Allah doesn't *need *man to fight and save Him or His Islam, but he wants His Men to fight and save His mankind from harm, to save one's Islamic nation from menace and terror and that's struggle (aka Jihad) for Allah's sake.

But alas, true! Allah is the Judge.

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

OK Hareem, you have brought the leaders of Pakistan and America as a proof that Jahannam raseed Mullah rasheed did something nice for Islam.

Here is a news for all terror-sympathizers (or worse they could be terrorists themselves).

Nowhere Mohammad pbuh ever kidnap people, or kill them away from the war front. The only example that supports these terrorist Mullahs is the one based on Shaddad or Hashishins (assassins).

Shaddad made terror school on earth and named it Jannat.
Mullahs make terror schools on earth and call them Mad-house-rassah madrassah

Shaddad drugged young men and made them terrorists
Mullahs feed lies and kufar to young men and make them terrorists

Shaddad sent these terrorists to assassinate, kidnap peaceful people.
Mullahs send ninja and beardo terrorists to assassinate, and kidnap peaceful people.

Both Shaddad and Mullahs use & abuse Islam for their nefarious purposes.

Surely Shaddad and Mullahs will end up in Jahannam for the crime of spread Jihad fil fasad (anarachy) in the land. And there is no maghfirah waghfirah for the fasadis (terrorists).

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

those kids students who died of nerve gas or buried in unknown trenches

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

We don't know how they died, what was in their hearts when they died?
They died as criminals in our eyes but in Allah's eyes? We dont know.

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

Did I? No.
and calling someone JahanumRaseed is Kuffar.

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

Actually, there were two types of deaths in that madrassas. One was of hostages and innocent children (underage in Islamic sense). These people are surely Saheed. Those that died fighting and resisting arrest (were not surrendering), did not died as shaheed but got killed. That is from obvious circumstances, as these people were criminals resisting arrest, and criminals cannot be Shaheed. (Though, Allah knows best about their crimes, we can only say from obvious)

As for what would happen in reality on the judgment day, as I wrote in first sentence of my first post: Only Allah knows who are in reality Shaheed, we can only call them Shaheed or not, from obvious.

Nevertheless, we could not call a criminal resisting arrest as Shaheed, else all crimminals like dakus, choors, smugglers, kidnappers, etc that gets killed resisting arrest would be called Shaheed.

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

Do you even read your own posts?

May be not.

Calling a terrorist and fasadi (anarchist) a terrorist is no Kufar.
Telling a terrorist and fasadi going to hell is no kufar either.

Looks like Hareem you are spending too much time listening and watching those video-love-letter-tapes sent to you by Zaya-shuda-zayahiri.

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

Yes it is.

Who's that?

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

Good post Sa1eem.

Re: Who died as Shaheed and who got killed?

very right :chai: