Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Well? Can you name them? Everybody is up in arms in Pakistan about how without Musharraf and Benazir we will be at the hands of crazy fundos. Well lets start of with the basics.

  1. Who are these jihadi fundos? Who is their leader? Where is their power base? Mad hysteria based on stupidity in the foreign media is no reason for people to lose their common sense.

  2. Now say Musharraf and Benazir are killed, does that leave a power vaccum for the Jihadi’s too take over? If anybody seriously thinks yes to that, you really do need to educate yourself on Pakistan history. A power vaccum in Pakistan will on exist if the Military is not willing to retain power. And we all know very well that the Military since the time of Ayub Khan believes itself to be the saviour of the Pakistani people.

  3. By what means will the Jihadist come to power? Will they launch a military offensive against the Pakistani military and its people? Do you seriously think they will win?

Yes a majority of the Pakistani people want a more Islamic way of governance. But that reaction is completely normal. Any time a society or people feel their way of life is threatened they reach out to the very foundations that are under attack to strengthen them. How do you think the Coptic’s in Egypt or the Jews in Europe kept their religious identity in tact?

Secondly what is wrong with a more religious governance system. The average Pakistani is not a crazy fundo. Nor is he or she hell bent on destroying modern developments in Pakistan. What they want is a system which they believe is just and fair which punishes those who disobey the will of Allah. Considering our past 20 years full of corruption and mismanagement these sentiments are normal and wide spread.

So next time you start using Jihadi extremists as real threat to Pakistan, do ask yourself some basic questions, like the ones I have posted above.

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

1) Brain Washed, Train to kill without showing any mercy. Because all others who don't follow strict Shariah Law's are infidels so kill them. Their power base is mostly poor people or the disgrace of society(partially).

2) Pakistani society, actually whole Islam is going through a transformation. I will compare it to "Renaissance". Talk to 100 people in Lahore/Karachi/Islamabad and tell them. Music is haram in some ways. 10 will agree 90 will not. Ask the same in Wazirestan the results will 90 to 10. If mushy & bb (infidels) killed it will be hard to control the people from both sides to talk instead of getting guns and lets finish it. Right now, establishment/military is serious about finish these so called Islamists once for all. I am seeing a big operation in following days.

3) Jihadi or extremists want power to implement the strict version of Islaim, which is interpret by their own Mullah/Leader/Peer Sahab. Mullahs can't take over Pak. Its impossible. There are certain systems, which will make sure. It won't happen.

Majority of Pakistani people don't want the strict and self made governance of Islam. Unfortunately their is no country in the world which have implemented the Shariah Law as it. Pakistan society is far more moderate then your imagination. The so called deep roots of Islam is vanished. People want rooti, kapra, Makaan.

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

They are mostly tribal pashtun people with some balochi and punjabi people brainwashed by Arab ideology of terrorism, extremism and hatred. They started in the 1980's when the Arab jihadists came to Pakistan and then opened their Schools of hatred where they turn thousands of young pakistanis into terrorists.

Their leader is currently Osama bin laden, brainwashed tribal cheifs who think Arabs are their brothers, the Taliban.

Their power base is currently the lawless region of NWFP and Tribal Areas where there is no government control and so they can preach whatever they want.

If Musharraf and Benazir are killed, the Vice Army Chief will become ruler of Pakistan

They won't win. But they will cause severe havoc in Pakistan. Waves of suicide bombings, killings. Much like the civil war days of Karachi in the 1990's

I disagree. Majority of Pakistanis want to lead a good life. Religion is everyone's own personal business. There are many minorities in Pakistan. Shia, Ahmedi, Christian, Hindu, which will not fall under the banner of Islam. Pakistan was founded as a secular democracy where the state runs through democratic ideals and people are free to practice their religion as they see fit. People can democratically institute change if they should see fit and enact laws if it goes against their moral compass

The problem is there is no one qualified enough to lead such a system. This will alienate a large number of people who don't want the state to influence their religion, or some extremists who think that the government is not islamic enough or liberals who think the government is not liberal enough. We need a secular government because our country is diverse.

No one religion, nor a sect of that religion be it sunni or shia should overrule each other.

All questions answered in less than 2 minutes

Quite childish questions if you ask me

Ask some deep questions next time.

Like the political, economical financial ramifications of road construction will have in NWFP in stopping terrorism in Pakistan

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

^^ :lmao:

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

I find it uniquely interesting that the two people that post use terminology developed by the US state department.

[quote]
1) Brain Washed, Train to kill without showing any mercy. Because all others who don't follow strict Shariah Law's are infidels so kill them. Their power base is mostly poor people or the disgrace of society(partially).
[/quote]

Conjecture and opinion. Power base is not a general category. It is an actual formal structure. Zia-ul-Haq's power base was the military. Benazir Bhutto's power base is the Sindh, where she still has a 80% or more approval rating. What is the power base of the of these elements? A formal structure would be nice not a generic category that applies to 70% of Pakistan's population.

[quote]
2) Pakistani society, actually whole Islam is going through a transformation. I will compare it to "Renaissance". Talk to 100 people in Lahore/Karachi/Islamabad and tell them. Music is haram in some ways. 10 will agree 90 will not. Ask the same in Wazirestan the results will 90 to 10. If mushy & bb (infidels) killed it will be hard to control the people from both sides to talk instead of getting guns and lets finish it. Right now, establishment/military is serious about finish these so called Islamists once for all. I am seeing a big operation in following days.
[/quote]

Good work on using US state department terminology. But do go on explain the "renaissance in Islam". What exactly in Islam is changing? Is the Quran being rewritten? Are the hadis being rewritten? Are we changing Shariah law? Secondly I find your statement if Mush and BB died their wold be nobody left, yet the military is there. So it would be a contradiction to say without them there is nobody.

[quote]
3) Jihadi or extremists want power to implement the strict version of Islaim, which is interpret by their own Mullah/Leader/Peer Sahab. Mullahs can't take over Pak. Its impossible. There are certain systems, which will make sure. It won't happen.
[/quote]

So which is it? Without Musharraf and BB there is no hope or there its impossible for the Mullahs to get power? You contradict yourself in the above two points.

[quote]
Majority of Pakistani people don't want the strict and self made governance of Islam. Unfortunately their is no country in the world which have implemented the Shariah Law as it. Pakistan society is far more moderate then your imagination. The so called deep roots of Islam is vanished. People want rooti, kapra, Makaan.
[/quote]

Wait...the Majority of Pakistan are poor and uneducated. The very same people you say are the so called power base of the extremists. So how can you say in your first paragraph that they are the ones that support extremism and yet you say the majority do not want "strict and self made governance of Islam". Clarify this contradiction.

Nice to see you back on the US propaganda machine M2K.

[quote]
They are mostly tribal pashtun people with some balochi and punjabi people brainwashed by Arab ideology of terrorism, extremism and hatred. They started in the 1980's when the Arab jihadists came to Pakistan and then opened their Schools of hatred where they turn thousands of young pakistanis into terrorists.

Their leader is currently Osama bin laden, brainwashed tribal cheifs who think Arabs are their brothers, the Taliban.

Their power base is currently the lawless region of NWFP and Tribal Areas where there is no government control and so they can preach whatever they want.
[/quote]

Okay so our Jihadis are terrorist who believe OBL is their ruler? And you are afraid that OBL will become our next president or leader? I mean after all the reason you all are up in arms about supporting Musharraf is that without him the terrorist will run amok in Pakistan right? Basically you are saying OBL has a chance to take over Pakistan?

And their power base is where the MMA won most of the votes? Interesting, isn't that the more hardline pro-taliban elements did not win compared to the MMA. But oh well what you say must be true.

[quote]
If Musharraf and Benazir are killed, the Vice Army Chief will become ruler of Pakistan

They won't win. But they will cause severe havoc in Pakistan. Waves of suicide bombings, killings. Much like the civil war days of Karachi in the 1990's
[/quote]

Right so there is no chance for the terrorists to come to power, the why is everybody including the US saying that Musharraf and Benazir Bhutto are our only hope to save Pakistan? You and Error have already stated there is no chance for them to seize power, then why are Musharraf and Benazir our saviours from a threat that has no ability to over throw the current regime?

[quote]
I disagree. Majority of Pakistanis want to lead a good life. Religion is everyone's own personal business. There are many minorities in Pakistan. Shia, Ahmedi, Christian, Hindu, which will not fall under the banner of Islam. Pakistan was founded as a secular democracy where the state runs through democratic ideals and people are free to practice their religion as they see fit. People can democratically institute change if they should see fit and enact laws if it goes against their moral compass.
[/quote]

You are welcome to disagree, but you don't live in Pakistan and frankly don't know what the common man wants or thinks. LMAO! The US was founded as an apartheid state. That doesn't mean it won't change. What is the past is the past and people need to move on from it. What matters is what the people want now. Do all Pakistanis want Shariah? Of course not. Do they want Pakistan to be a theocracy. Yes. Just because you want a religious form of government does not mean you want the Irani form of Shariah. Such narrow-minded drivel is out of your perceptions and not reality.

People are free to practice their religion in peace and security under Islam as well. Pakistan has been an Islamic Federation for nearly 30 years now. You don't see any government action saying that Christians can't go to church.

[quote]
The problem is there is no one qualified enough to lead such a system. This will alienate a large number of people who don't want the state to influence their religion, or some extremists who think that the government is not islamic enough or liberals who think the government is not liberal enough. We need a secular government because our country is diverse.

No one religion, nor a sect of that religion be it sunni or shia should overrule each other.
[/quote]

No one is qualified? Since when? Firstly who are you to say if someone is qualified or not? Secondly do you know what the qualifications would be for such a task? These artificial boundaries between Shia and Sunni are just that - artificial. I find it in intriguing that you say religion is private matter but do not give the average Pakistani the respect or courtesy that they could believe the same thing.

If they are childish then why do you contradict yourself when you answer them?

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

CM, stop arguing for argument's sake. We all know who the jihadis are, their groups, their power bases, their supporters and their leaders. We also know what their agenda is. Question is how to defeat them now. The rest is hot air.

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

Nothing wrong with religious governance, as long as its doesn't take us back to 6th century Arabia. BTW, can you explain to me the highlighted part of your post, who would be the best candidate to run that system?

Last person to answer this post wins!!!!
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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

^ I recall Israel was liberated by terrorism, and their claims went back over 2000 years or more............

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

True, how does this fit into this topic of jihadi mayhem in a Muslim (albeit flawed) country.

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

Khehkeshan is everybody knows who they are and its all general information, why did two different posters say two different things? They don't agree on the power base. They do not agree on the leader and they don't agree on what the jihadi movement constitutes.

One thing both people however do agree upon is that the Jihadi movement is not a big enough threat to destablize the country. Something the US government and think tanks actively preach.

If its all that common then why are these two people making such wide and different statements?

Shamraz Khan I will answer yours if you answer my question. Why the negative connotation when speaking about Islamic governance? You say its fine, but make a qualification of it negatively? Why? Interestingly enough you imply that the Islamic system is or can be backwards. Why?

Now to your question. Out of our current section of national leaders not a single person is qualified. Because they do not have broad support among the people. BB has sindh. NS has Punjab. The MMA have NWFP. Lets not talk about the leaders of the MMA in any fashion as Islamic leadership.

However that does not mean there is not hope or possibility for a leader to arise. After all most of our leaders were created over time and not brought on to the seen at once. One should however not discount the wishes of the average Pakistani because there is no leader presently.

The average Pakistani from those who I have spoken to and seen discuss politics is to have a leader who can tackle corruption, the lack of law and order and other such matters that we discuss actively on these forums, but also give cultural and religious leadership. They do not want people blowing themselves up in the name of Islam. They do not want to deal with terrorist of any religion. They want a system which is religious, and allows for modern development. The average Pakistani does not want a secular government. You saw the uproar about Lal Masjid.

If that doesn't answer your question, do let me know what I missed.

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

I believe if you ask one them they will tell you their struggle is Just and sanctioned by "their" enterpretation of the Holy Quran, similar to the Russian, German, Polish and all other European & American Jews claim to be the Chosen Ones granted the Holy Land according to their Torah and Bible.

Those who want to revive 600 yr old history are No Different from those who want to revive 2000 yr old history...........both can be called Fundementalist.......

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

CM, stop wasting everyones time.. You know these people are terrorsits scum, evil to the core, and the sooner they are dead the better off the world will be...

The sooner you stop supportin these degenerate murder' the better.. They arent human let alone Muslim.. So stop idolizing them.

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

Let's not talk about the leaders of the MMA in any fashion as Islamic Leadership?????

No no, LETS. Please, LETS talk about this, because THIS is exactly what would come into power if there was Shariah law. Who's shariah are we talking about? You've already seen MMA's Islamic law in NWFP - they've bullied CD owners to close shop; you can't listen or play music publicly; public ads they've taken down.

Ok. Fine. Lets say that with some of these actions SOME good has come out of it. The dirty Anjuman-type poses on cinema posters might have come off, and people's eyes aren't being offended by her incredibly big butt.

Lets talk about all the musicians that were put out of business. All the poets, and the music engineers, and the studio walay, the CD retail businesses, etc. Mind you without any kind of program to help them find another living. You can't just make sudden rules like that - its stupid.

Lets talk about all the human rights violations that still go on in NWFP in the name of tradition and Islam. Lets talk about how tribal leaders are running their own renegade laws in a land, and how they're not respecting national law? Lets talk about the drugs they grow, and the drug trade, and the illicit weapons trade on the border, and the smuggling. Rabi centre in Karachi is still overflowing with Kapra smuggled across the Afghani border.

Lets talk about how they've failed to get basic amenities to the population - like clean water, safe vaccines (um, does the polio fiasco ring a bell????), safe healthcare, attention to women's issues like rape, pregnancy issues and maternal health, and girls' education. In fact, they are successfully driving girls OUT of school.

Wake up - half your country is being ruled by "Islamic" law, and I don't expect any better. Pakistanis have caused havoc in the name of following "Islam", and nothing the MMA has accomplished is Islamic.

Yet, their platform is all about "Islamic law". You can't dismiss that there are such frauds in the country. I'd rather have a moderate muslim leader who uses the main human rights principles that Islam promotes in the execution of the law, and leaves how many namazein we're all reading, etc to our own private homes.

And I'd really like to know from you exactly what is so UNISLAMIC about Pakistan's laws at the moment?????? Most of them are pretty Islamic. Its not an issue of the laws - its an issue of their execution. So,the problem is not lack of Islam, but the lack of our people being good muslims. Pakistanis are corrupt - you wont change that by changing the letters of some words in the books. You have to reach out to people through social and religious outreach. This is not the government's job.

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

Whats truly sad is that Pasthuns cultrue, music and art is being destroyed by these Islamist scum...
First the Taliban forced them out of Afghanistan into Peshawar and Pakistan, and now they are being systematically suppressed even in what was once a safe haven in Pak...

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

Good freaking god. It seems the average Pakistani lacks the basic comprehension to read English. Please point out one place where I support "these terrorist scum".

The point I am actively making that all you ignore is that "these terrorist scum" do not have the support of the common man. Yet Benazir and Musharraf tell you they are a threat to our society and system. They aren't a threat.

Stating that a network of fanatics is not a threat to the stability of a country is not supporting "these terrorist scum".

Now be a good little boy and show me where I openly support "these terrorist scum".

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

sigh PCG. Your hatred for anything that seems Islamic is very evident. Now one question. Malaysia and Indonesia have the Hijab by tradition and custom. More Malay and Indonesian women wear the Hijab than all of Pakistan. Secondly Malaysia has Islamic banking laws regarding interest, Malaysia also has different aspects of the Shariah law implemented. They have a law that does not allow muslims to convert out of Islam. Yet it is the most developed and most modern Islamic country on the face of the planet. Indonesia is very close behind. What is wrong with adopting such a model. Their governments aren't secular.

A typical trait of the Pakistani people is to think of the negative and not of the positive.

Now do tell me what does:

  1. Lack of Law and Order,
  2. Drugs,
  3. Smuggling and illicit weapons trade

have to do with Islam?

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

They ARE threat to society... Ignorance is no excuse, read between the lines... THEY DONT NEED THE SUPPORT OF THE COMMON PEOPLE... They JUST NEED A HANDFUL OF SUICIDE BOMBERS!!!!!!!!!!!

Get a clue man, these rats are going to spread, and your supporting them as though they are kids.. Grow up buddy! They effectively control a quarter of the country either directly or indirectly and your coddling them like they are toddlers... Wake up beta, your day dreaming!

Timepaas
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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

Its not hatred for Islam thats a problem, its people like you who dont see the threat that the Islam these fantic scum are preaching, is posing these days to the civilized world.
And none of that that has anything to do with Islam, yet the same people who claim to defend Islam have no problem indulging smuggling of weapons, and drugs.. And if you hadnt noticed, they are alos the one;s disturbing law and order...

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

Firstly could you show me where I support them? Secondly no I do not consider them a threat to our country or our society. Why? Because their actions are a direct response to actions taken by Benazir or Musharraf. If different avenues were taken we wouldn't be dealing with suicide bombers.

Edit: So if they break the law you punish them. If the government is ineffective that isn't a problem with Islam now is it? You are basically saying that since some muslims who defend Islam smuggle weapons and drugs that means Islam is bad as a religion. Wow. You sure you aren't European?

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Re: Who are these Jihadi terrorists?

Nope, im just tired of people making excuses for these terrorsits....

Their ACTIONS could be direct result of the tooth fairy for all I care.. POINT is that they ARE threat... You seem to feel that these terrorists will disappear if Benazir and Musharaf dissapear? What world do you live in... These venemous islamist a holes will CONTINUE to attack peoples bussiness, murder innocents, destroy schools...

If different avenues were taken, maybe we wouldnt have to deal with suicide bombers, but we DO. Point is, that these terrorist scum ARE here NOW... And they are a threat to the country... Perhaps the worst threat in all its history... So instead of ranting and and raving and BSing of who is to blame, why not condemn the terrorsits that there are now instead of coddling them...

Well, those SOME Muslims are the problem are they not? Those SOME Muslims are the ones that are murdering people every single day while people like you are running around defending Islam... Doesnt take a European to realize that Islams image isnt doing to good when on the one hand, these a holes are busy murdering people, and people like you are of defending them by shifitng the blame...

Bottom line beta, you need to face reality...

Timepaas