While America slept

a book just written by gerald Posner.


http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,480240,00.html

New York - A new book by Gerald Posner says Abu Zubaydah has made startling
revelations about secret connections linking Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and
Osama bin Laden. The book, Why America Slept (Random House) is reviewed
exclusively in this week’s issue of TIME. “Most of his new book is a lean,
lucid retelling of how the CIA, FBI and U.S. leaders missed a decade’s worth
of clues and opportunities that if heeded, Posner argues, might have
forestalled the 9/11 terrorist attacks,” TIME’s Johanna McGeary writes in
the review.

Posner elaborates in startling detail how U.S. interrogators used drugs - an
unnamed “quick-on, quick-off” painkiller and Sodium Pentothal, the old movie
truth serum - in a chemical version of reward and punishment to make
Zubaydah talk. When questioning stalled, according to Posner, CIA men flew
Zubaydah to an Afghan complex fitted out as a fake Saudi jail chamber, where
“two Arab-Americans, now with Special Forces,” pretending to be Saudi
inquisitors, used drugs and threats to scare him into more confessions.

Yet when Zubaydah was confronted by the false Saudis, writes Posner, “his
reaction was not fear, but utter relief.” Happy to see them, he reeled off
telephone numbers for a senior member of the royal family who would, said
Zubaydah, "tell you what to do."The man at the other end would be Prince
Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul Aziz, a Westernized nephew of King Fahd and a
publisher better known as a racehorse owner. His horse War Emblem won the
Kentucky Derby in 2002). To the amazement of the U.S., the numbers proved
valid. When the fake inquisitors accused Zubaydah of lying, he responded
with a 10-minute monologue laying out the Saudi-Pakistani-Osama triangle,
according to the book.

Zubaydah, writes Posner, said the Saudi connection ran through Prince Turki
al-Faisal bin Abdul Aziz, the kingdom’s longtime intelligence chief.
Zubaydah said bin Laden “personally” told him of a 1991 meeting at which
Turki agreed to let bin Laden leave Saudi Arabia and to provide him with
secret funds as long as al-Qaeda refrained from promoting jihad in the
kingdom. The Pakistani contact, high - ranking air force officer Mushaf Ali
Mir, entered the equation, Zubaydah said, at a 1996 meeting in Pakistan also
attended by Zubaydah. Bin Laden struck a deal with Mir, then in the military
but tied closely to Islamists in Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence
(ISI), to get protection, arms and supplies for al-Qaeda. Zubaydah told
interrogators bin Laden said the arrangement was “blessed by the Saudis,”
according to Posner.

Zubaydah said he attended a third meeting in Kandahar in 1998 with Turki,
senior ISI agents and Taliban officials. There Turki promised, writes
Posner, that “more Saudi aid would flow to the Taliban, and the Saudis would
never ask for bin Laden’s extradition, so long as al-Qaeda kept its
long-standing promise to direct fundamentalism away from the kingdom.” In
Posner’s stark judgment, the Saudis “effectively had (bin Laden) on their
payroll since the start of the decade.” Abu Zubaydah told the interrogators
that the Saudis regularly sent the funds through three royal-prince
intermediaries he named, according to the book.

The last eight paragraphs of the book set up a final startling development,
McGeary writes. Those three Saudi princes all perished within days of one
another. On July 22, 2002, Prince Ahmed was felled by a heart attack at age
43. One day later Prince Sultan bin Faisal bin Turki al-Saud, 41, was killed
in what was called a high-speed car accident. The last member of the trio,
Prince Fahd bin Turki bin Saud al-Kabir, officially “died of thirst” while
traveling east of Riyadh one week later. And seven months after that, Mushaf
Ali Mir, by then Pakistan’s Air Marshal, perished in a plane crash in clear
weather over the unruly North-West Frontier Province, along with his wife
and closest confidants, Posner writes.

Without charging any skulduggery (Posner told TIME they “may in fact be
coincidences”), the author notes that these deaths occurred after CIA
officials passed along Zubaydah’s accusations to Riyadh and Islamabad.
Washington, reports Posner, was shocked when Zubaydah claimed that “9/11
changed nothing” about the clandestine marriage of terrorism and Saudi and
Pakistani interests, “because both Prince Ahmed and Mir knew that an attack
was scheduled for American soil on that day.” They couldn’t stop it or warn
the U.S. in advance, Zubaydah said, because they didn’t know what or where
the attack would be. And they couldn’t turn on bin Laden afterward because
he could expose their prior knowledge. Both capitals swiftly assured
Washington that “they had thoroughly investigated the claims and they were
false and malicious.” The Bush Administration, writes Posner, decided that
“creating an international incident and straining relations with those
regional allies when they were critical to the war in Afghanistan and the
buildup for possible war with Iraq, was out of the question.”

The book seems certain to kick up a political and diplomatic firestorm,
McGeary writes. The first question everyone will ask is, Is it true? And
many will wonder if these matters were addressed in the 28 pages censored
from Washington’s official report on 9/11. It has long been suggested that
Saudi Arabia probably had some kind of secret arrangement to stave off
fundamentalists within the kingdom. But, McGeary writes, this appears to be
the first description of a repeated, explicit quid pro quo between bin Laden
and a Saudi official. Posner told TIME he got the details of Zubaydah’s
interrogation and revelations from a U.S. official outside the CIA at a
“very senior Executive Branch level” whose name we would probably know if he
told it to us, McGeary writes. He did not. The second source, Posner said,
was from the CIA, and he gave what Posner viewed as general confirmation of
the story but did not repeat the details. There are top Bush Administration
officials who have long taken a hostile view of Saudi behavior regarding
terrorism and might want to leak Zubaydah’s claims. Prince Turki, now Saudi
Arabia’s ambassador to Britain, did not respond to Posner’s letters and
faxes.

Finally, the details of Zubaydah’s drug-induced confessions might bring on
charges that the U.S. is using torture on terror suspects. According to
Posner, the Administration decided shortly after 9/11 to permit the use of
Sodium Pentothal on prisoners. The Administration, he writes, “privately
believes that the Supreme Court has implicitly approved using such drugs in
matters where public safety is at risk,” citing a 1963 opinion.

I have always believed that the ruling family in Saudi Arabia, deliberately "exported" and "financed" trouble-makers in other parts of the world, just to hold on to their grip on power. They want people like bin Laden and Abu Zubaidah to keep fighting in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Chechniya, Palestine and other hot spots, so that they don't turn their guns and efforts to destabilize the ruling family in Saudi Arabia.

In 1991, after Saddam invaded Kuwait, Saudis did invite the only country in the world, they thought could be relied on as paid mercenaries to keep Saddam away. The chain reaction from that move, resulted in folks like Bin Laden turning their energies against the US, which must have unnerved these Saudi princes. From that point onwards, Bin Laden was more a loose canon: the USS Cole, embassy bombings in Africa and then the WTC... I really doubt if Saudis princes would ever stomach such ventures, let alone finance them. It is in Saudis best interest (whatever the heck this term means) to keep America appeased and away from preaching about merits of democracy in the Kingdom.

The deaths of the princes and the Pak Air Marshal is interesting stuff. Unless that stuff is factually incorrect, to have four deaths in a small period of time, of people who are connected one way or the other to this whole drama, is beyond a mere coincidence.

I guess part of the problem w/exporting terror is that it's a difficult thing to control. I wonder if and when this will come to a head. It's not going to be pretty that's for sure.

This establishes the deep rooted links between ISI, pak military and Osama. We can no longer dismiss as conjecture the theory about mushraf guarding Osama some where. Blair, Bush and Mush are treading lit fuses here.

Faisal,

"They want people like bin Laden and Abu Zubaidah to keep fighting in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Chechniya, Palestine and other hot spots, so that they don't turn their guns and efforts to destabilize the ruling family in Saudi Arabia."

Precisely!

Never mind that man behind the curtain... Who benefits most from this discontent? Those who have the most to lose. What has all of this paid anarchy yielded? The Taliban, a grotesque permutation of the worst of Islam. Bombs and explosions.

And there in the shadows playing powerbrokers are the Saudis.

If you follow the Saudi's, it is very informative to read the Arab News, a government controlled publication. Before the Iraq invasion they were RABIDLY against the US. The anti-US rhetoric exceeded that of Al-Jazeera.

Now after the invasion, the language is toned down, the criticism no more harsh than a New York Times Op-Ed piece.

The Saudi's are scared out of their minds that Frakensteins' monster is out of contol, and that it will turn on it's maker. When you see a great number of Princes spending a lot more time in their London homes, the end is near.

The ultimate irony is that this author either has a vivid imagination, an uncanny ability to piece together disparate information, or some killer inside information. (Honey turn down the TV, it's Cheney again...)

Anybody else wondering why oil prices have spiked? I wonder what the Oil traders suspect or know.....

(And by the way, Tom Clancy's latest book describes in great detail the exact assasination technique that was used on a rich Arab Prince to simulate a heart attack. Hmmmm....)

The New York Times summarizes a forthcoming Vanity Fair article detailing how White House officials evacuated dozens of Saudi nationals from the United States in the immediate aftermath of September 11:

The administration says this was done for the safety of the Saudis, but skeptics suggest it’s part of a broader pattern of covering up Saudi involvement in terrorism. Given the close ties between the Bush family and the Saudi government, the charges are not exactly implausible. Hopefully, calls from Chuck Schumer and other critics of the U.S.-Saudi relationship will lead to an investigation that gets to the bottom of this.
Source

a good solution to this mess is to deport all of KSA royals and the wahabi "leaders" to a desolate island..they prop each other in power..no one dares do anything to the royals because the alternative would be rabid extremists..get rid of both and start with a clean slate.

while we are in Iraq, why not pay the neigbours a visit as well..

[quote]

The Pakistani contact, high - ranking air force officer Mushaf Ali
Mir
, entered the equation, Zubaydah said, at a 1996 meeting in Pakistan also
attended by Zubaydah. Bin Laden struck a deal with Mir, then in the military
but tied closely to Islamists in Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence
(ISI), to get protection, arms and supplies for al-Qaeda.

[/quote]

This is utter nonsense. I knew the Shaheed Air Chief Marshall. A somewhat liberal Westernized Shi'ite who would have nothing to do with any kind of fundamentalism. A most facile attempt if there ever was one to besmirch this great flyer and that too after his martyrdom. Moreover the man was never even in the ISI.

Link: Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More

Here is a special gift for all the bhookas, maybe if you burn more muslims you can see some ISI connection in the smoke.

Gerald Posner reminds me of an X-CIA agent(dunno remember his name) who wrote the book 'See No Evil'

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
This establishes the deep rooted links between ISI, pak military and Osama. We can no longer dismiss as conjecture the theory about mushraf guarding Osama some where. Blair, Bush and Mush are treading lit fuses here.
[/QUOTE]

A pretty stupid statement. No doubt the jihadis were given support by Pakistan at certain periods during the Russian advance in Afghanistan, but then America was involved complicitly in that too. Go rent Rambo III if you need your memory refreshed.

Musharraf pretty much fell in behind America's war on islamic extremism since then in fact Zubaydah was probably arrested in Pakistan. As for the Saudi royals they can all jump in a lake as far as we are concerned. There isn't a bigger example of backward thinking leadership anywhere in the world with the possible exception of India where a bunch of rabid Hindutva loonies hold sway.

There's more unmental than judgement. You call my statement studpid but in the same breadth ended up agreeing with my point. Prozac deprivation may be?

Why did musharaf "fall behind america" as you eloquently put it? because India and America had incontrovertable evidence of pakistani government complicity with the terrorists.

why did musharaf dismiss the isi chief?

as to 'rabid loonies ho;lding sway' in India - don't divert the topic. Patriotism is misplaced when dealing with crooks, remember that.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
Why did musharaf "fall behind america" as you eloquently put it? because India and America had incontrovertable evidence of pakistani government complicity with the terrorists.

why did musharaf dismiss the isi chief?

[/QUOTE]

Why don't you read my post again and this time rub your eyes and take it in properly. There is no denial here that fundos were encouraged in Pakistan for a period. So what? It served it's purposes at the time for US and Pakistan - or at least that's how it looked at the time.

US is more than happy to co-operate with Pakistan right now and even though that might put a bug up your ass, best just to bite it and accept it as reality. Musharraf seems more than capable of putting a check on some of the more idiotic elements in Pakistan, let's hope this is reflected soon across the border in the coming elections.

Hope is wishfull thinking ... not a plan. So if you don't deny the fundocide nexus, why any arguement. Have your face saver.