Someone close is at crossroads .. have just finished their MBBS from King Edward Lahore .. and wanting to specialize further …
there is tonns of confusion between the two mentioned qualifications … obviously they want to pick only one … hence need your advise .. which one is more widely recognized and has more rewards …
Which country is better for surgeons , job wise , America or Australia … From an immigrant point of view …
CB - It really just comes down to where the person wants to settle.
It's not so much USMLE or AMC, rather "where do I want to establish my career". Once you start in a particular country, it's not easy to practice in another. Exams have to be re-taken etc.
Purely for medical opportunity (in general, not for immigrants), especially for surgery, I'd suggest America.
A lot of UK medical graduates are going to Australia though.
You get more money and better benefits in USA, more opportunities too.....however its tougher to bring your parents & siblings to US (spouse & kids are not a problem)..... in comparison, Australia pays less and the first few years are really tough (no employer sponsored health insurance for immigrant doctors... imagine that) but you can take your parents/siblings with you... I know a person who actually went for AMC while his dream had always been USMLE, but he had a recently widowed mother and he didn't want to leave her all alone in Pakistan.
Thanks so much Mia and Stoppit really valuable info... I have heard that Australia is quite a racist country ... recently there were some serious incidents as well , I think Indian Students had been killed in racist attacks .... Generally job wise as well I have heard the same , race matters !
so any idea if all this crap is true? is life difficult in Aussieland for the desi's?
Yes CB it is true Aussies have become really racially prejudiced.
AMC is easier to clear as compared to MLEs (relatively speaking) and it's just pass/fail ..not percentile scoring. But a few of my seniors who did clear could not get the desired training esp not in surgery.
most of them are coming back, and are now preparing for USMLEs but imagine the time wasted !
and stoppit, what about PLAB status and residency training vacancies in UK nowadays any idea?? :)
Enigmatica - it depends what status of doctor you are coming over as.
For you, I guess you are coming over as soon as you finish graduate MBBS?
You will come over with little or no experience, have to clear both PLAB exams and register with the GMC (provisional). After that you will apply for an F1 post (foundation year 1, junior doctor). Following this, you do your F2 year. You have some general and some chosen placements during these two years.
It is after this that you start the path in your chosen specialty, provided you have secured a place. Obviously, it's a lot tougher to get into some specialties than others. There will be an application process and blah blah. These are the ST (specialist training) years. The reason you had a lot of UK doctors going to Australia after F2 was because they just weren't getting to do what they wanted to do, nor in a part of the country they wanted to be in.
If you want to train as a GP it's a separate route that begins straight after F2, takes 3 years and you just take your GP exams. A lot of Pakistani doctors are doing this as it's the simplest route (not that hard to get into either) and you know more or less know where your career is going.
Anyway, it's pretty confusing. I have no idea for example, how many people who want to train as surgeons actually end up doing so. It's difficult to gauge opinion too. When I talk to F1/F2's who I don't know personally, they tell me my husband shouldn't have a problem getting an F1 post as there are always some that aren't filled by UK students. However, when I talk to my actual friends who are now post F2, they get really prickly about the subject and go on about how hard it is to get a place and don't seem to like the fact that foreign doctors are coming here at all!
Stoppit , thats so very helpful ... really it is .. i cant thank you enough for this .. you know i have been asking around from doctors , about how a newly qualified MBBS would go about finding their career route and nobody tells !
The only answers i keep getting are there are no jobs , no oppportunities , very random answers !
Please do continue to shed some light on the FRCS options , i heard its blocked at the moment , how important is for someone who wants to specialize in surgery?
CB, I'm not sure what you mean by the last sentence?
FRCS is much further down the line.
Also, I would like to add, that is is very difficult to come the UK on a highly skilled work visa as a doctor. In fact, they had closed it for about 2 years. Even then, they have to give jobs in the following order, UK doctors, EU doctors, then lastly IMGs. Most of the IMG's (international medical graduates) who have been getting jobs for the last few years are married to British citizens, therefore have leave to remain and can therefore apply as a British resident.
To be quite frank, if the person is not bothered about the country, USA is the best option. If you are good, you should get to go down the route of your chosen career specialty. My husband is only coming to the UK because I want to stay here. But if he encounters problems and is unhappy with the career options here, we will consider moving.
stoppit since you have mashallah good knowledge about this ... can you provide a similar road map for someone who wants to go to US , right after completing their MBBS ... what will be their route?
Also if possible please shed some light on what visa's will they need ?
I can’t really help with the USA route, I don’t know too much about it. I just know that a good proportion of my husband’s seniors go every year without any problems. Everyone has recommended he go there, he’s really only coming to the UK as I’m here. The only other doctors coming here are also spouses.
I think you will get a much better response on a medicine forum. In fact this question has probably already been asked.