Which one of the two you would choose to be khalifatul muslimeen of -----

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Dear Readers,

There back in Pakistan, we have two very good muslims on governing seats.

One opposition leader moullana Fazllu, claims to be religion’s islam’s custodian

The second is president Musshoo who claims to be better than many beardos claimers of islam’s custodians.

Moullana fazllu’s father was also------

President’s grand papa was Gadi Nasheen----so he also has back ground— to hold the Gadi of islam-----in a way----

Now let us find out who is better among the two to be selected by us to strenghtened the hands for the prosperity of our country?

Who would show us the bright, forward path and is ready ,able to direct and take us to jannat of the dunia as well as jannat of the Akherat.

For this let us observe who has better companions. After all companions have lots of important in religion, islam, for majority of the muslims.

Moullana Fazllu has very good companions, if not quality one but in large quantities; to guide him and all of us.

We would do inshallah every day AAMALE Qurani to achieve what ever we want to achieve in this world or we may also be asked " by him and his companions:

" kay goli maroo donya ko akherat key baat karo" wo hayat baad dul mout hei."

They would do to the best for us , they would guide us to the best of their abilities and intelligence and their knowledge of islam or Eman.

These companions would be the most sincere one, we would check them through their deeds for us, through our intelligence.

But Dounya kay baree may wo kouch nahei sounch ein gah.

For this reason we would turn to be a weak country. Other countries would try to eat us up. Now moullana Fazllu would give Fatwa to all of us:

Sir kata dou islam bacha loo. Hum sub sir per kafan baand kar larhna shourou kar dein gah.

Larah eey ka ta reiqa wa he purana wa alla hou gah;

Choup kar war karoo, yergamal bana lou, sir kadth dou. bum bandh kar jaou, ou raah kar rakh dou chooup choupa kay.

Ya he tou islam hey. Ya he tou key to success hey, ye he tou hum mareey, prophet (P) nei hamein seik haya hei.

Jub sir sei ouncha pani doush mun ka hou jaeey gah, wo keya karey ga?

Raised to ground to whole muslim ummah.

qoun kay " Arab tou mafloug hei larh he nahee sakta.

See rief asia larh ey ga.

Masaaallah kay, kia koub tah reiqa hou ey ga.

Mumkin hey, iss terhan dou tein generations kouzar jaeein.

Wa he stone age key zin dagey guzar na shou rou kar dein gay.

Camels as conveyance, huts to live, desert to pass -----, no masjid, open yards to pray. !00% sunnat e rasoul per aamal beh hou sakee ga.

Sub he logoon kou jannat melaey gey.

Makar moullana’s key families ka, kou ei beh tou nahein maree ga. Sub ka sub europe or america mein aesh kar rahei koun gah.

Hum sub kou mar kar.

Ya he toiu hein ka dehy heir sara paisa jama kar le tey hain hum gha re boun sey or europeans sey aalug and innocent arabs sey aalug.

Is le ye zara soun chou tu. Jannat tou hum maray, ma pap key ter be yat sey beh hum lou goun kou mil jaei gey.

Neik aamal karney ka our time beh melay ga.

Doun ya ka behe mouq qablla, face to face kar sakeen gay.
God had not asked us to : KHARIJ UD DUNYA.

Werna yeh looug tou hum sub kou kharij ud dounya wal akhera karna chahtey hein.

All are good ones, all have, possibly good intentions, we must decide what is good for us.

To side opposition or to side mushoo.

I would side mushoo and try to make his hands strong. I want things to be done with peace and respect. I do not like shour sharaba of roads, or killings, and unrest in our country.

I would give chance to mushoo to do the way he wants to take our country forward, I would not put hinderances in his way of plannings. This is an honest way.

Bye sokoon

2

Makar moullana's key families ka kou ei beh tou nahein maree ga. >>Sub ka sub europe or america mein aesh kar rahei koun gah.

haan toa? key families may be outside, but moullana himself is not outside is he? there is no compulsion in Islam, falimies wanna live abroad they have every right to. moullana wants to fight for Islam, he has every right to.he is ready to die for Islam ain't he.
kitnaa bhee chahhoa, moullana kay kirdaar pay akhir kitnee keechar uraa sakoa gee tum. and how do u know all of them are like that anyway? tumhay sirf koi naa koi nuktaa chahiyay mazak uranay ka. u found it and a pretty lame one too, and not yrs originaly either by any stretch ofthe imagination.
and as for yr pet mushy, know anything about where his children are?

why don't u simply say u are having problems accepting mushy as the true bearer of islam. otherwise u wudn't start slanging against the 'moullana' so much.

3

Ya ghulail

Hi!

Mushoo ka bache tou dou aadat hein, perhnei gaei thay, achcha mouqa mil gaya, sukoon key zindagey gozarney ka. Tou hum sub logoun key tarhan bahar hein.

Moushoo tou jung o jadal karney kou key see sey nahe keh raha hei.

Jou loug yeh kahtee hein un sey gila hei, ka upne bachoun kou sub na bacha leya.

Ke see ka kouei bacha ,ya bachey succide attack kay ley ye nahe gaya. Magar dousroun kay lukh te jegar merwa deye.

Na maaloum kitnoun ka dil kay cheragh bujha deyeee.

Or ub na maaloum or key yeh chahtey hein.

sokoon

4

see i have no probs with yr view that mushy is a better option. but i dont understand that whilst u r riting promos with him why do u have to deride the moullana and cast apsersions on him. i mean all strains of thoughts have an equal right to exist, and i am just not giving u one of the moronic "diversity for the sake of diversity" argument here. its just why are u feeling so threatened by thre moullana that u have to label hi m as the one with bay-iman niyyat. that just stinks of guilty conscience to me regarding yr politcal affiliation.
this argument about "doosroan kay bachay " marwa diyayt, apnay bacha liyay. this is just too lame. nobody forced those "bachas" did anyone? so why shud the maulvis have to force thier children to do jihad.

5

a selfish guy like mushy shud not even be chosen to be a group leader leave alone being chosen as a khalifa....

no muslim, in his right mind, wud ever vote for him to be a khalifa....

6

Recep Tayyep Erdogan for Khilafah 2010 :k:

7

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
a selfish guy like mushy shud not even be chosen to be a group leader leave alone being chosen as a khalifa....

no muslim, in his right mind, wud ever vote for him to be a khalifa....
[/QUOTE]

One of the conditions of khaleefah is that he is not influenced by foriegn powers. Does musharaff get influenced by foriegn powers hmmmmm i wonder 44 FBI offices in Pakistan Military Bases given to the US cooperation on every level ????????? I don't think musharaff gets close to qualifying!

8

Re: Which one of the two you would choose to be khalifatul muslimeen of -----

Assalamo alaikum

The discussion of a leader who is valid to be the shield of this ummah should focus around his thinking and his proposed constitution. If what he proposes confirms to the shariah then he is a valid candidate for the post of khilafah, if his thinking is secualr and he is subservient to the capitalist nations, then he is not fit to rule. This is because the khilafah is an independent state with its own agenda and its domestic and foreign policies are not shaped by secualr nations nor by international law.

Unfortunately Musharraf fails to even come close to being a khalifah. Observing his treatment of Pakistan, showes that he wishes to take Pakistan in the direction of Turkey and his model is Mustafah Kamal (who abolished the khilafah).

Mustafah Kamal, formed a state in which Islam was divorced from politics and where Islam was confined to the mosque. Musharraf has started to change the education curriculum, permitted the establishment of FBI offices in Pakistan, permitted the privitisation of key public utilities by foreign capialist companies, allowed inspections of its nuclear arsenal etc.

So from the statements of musharraf and his actions, it is clear that he does not wish to see a state where Islam is applied, nor does he wish to be a single khalifah for the Muslim world. Rather he wishes to secularise Pakistan, make concessions of kashmir, allow the US to train its soldiers and key generals.

The Muslims need to look for those that will establish the correct system and those who are Islamic in thier thinking and actions.

wassalaam

Ali

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
Dear Readers,

There back in Pakistan, we have two very good muslims on governing seats.

One opposition leader moullana Fazllu, claims to be religion's islam's custodian

The second is president Musshoo who claims to be better than many beardos claimers of islam's custodians.

Moullana fazllu's father was also------

President's grand papa was Gadi Nasheen----so he also has back ground--- to hold the Gadi of islam-----in a way----

Now let us find out who is better among the two to be selected by us to strenghtened the hands for the prosperity of our country?

Who would show us the bright, forward path and is ready ,able to direct and take us to jannat of the dunia as well as jannat of the Akherat.

For this let us observe who has better companions. After all companions have lots of important in religion, islam, for majority of the muslims.

Moullana Fazllu has very good companions, if not quality one but in large quantities; to guide him and all of us.

We would do inshallah every day AAMALE Qurani to achieve what ever we want to achieve in this world or we may also be asked " by him and his companions:

" kay goli maroo donya ko akherat key baat karo" wo hayat baad dul mout hei."

They would do to the best for us , they would guide us to the best of their abilities and intelligence and their knowledge of islam or Eman.

These companions would be the most sincere one, we would check them through their deeds for us, through our intelligence.

But Dounya kay baree may wo kouch nahei sounch ein gah.

For this reason we would turn to be a weak country. Other countries would try to eat us up. Now moullana Fazllu would give Fatwa to all of us:

Sir kata dou islam bacha loo. Hum sub sir per kafan baand kar larhna shourou kar dein gah.

Larah eey ka ta reiqa wa he purana wa alla hou gah;

Choup kar war karoo, yergamal bana lou, sir kadth dou. bum bandh kar jaou, ou raah kar rakh dou chooup choupa kay.

Ya he tou islam hey. Ya he tou key to success hey, ye he tou hum mareey, prophet (P) nei hamein seik haya hei.

Jub sir sei ouncha pani doush mun ka hou jaeey gah, wo keya karey ga?

Raised to ground to whole muslim ummah.

qoun kay " Arab tou mafloug hei larh he nahee sakta.

See rief asia larh ey ga.

Masaaallah kay, kia koub tah reiqa hou ey ga.

Mumkin hey, iss terhan dou tein generations kouzar jaeein.

Wa he stone age key zin dagey guzar na shou rou kar dein gay.

Camels as conveyance, huts to live, desert to pass -----, no masjid, open yards to pray. !00% sunnat e rasoul per aamal beh hou sakee ga.

Sub he logoon kou jannat melaey gey.

Makar moullana's key families ka, kou ei beh tou nahein maree ga. Sub ka sub europe or america mein aesh kar rahei koun gah.

Hum sub kou mar kar.

Ya he toiu hein ka dehy heir sara paisa jama kar le tey hain hum gha re boun sey or europeans sey aalug and innocent arabs sey aalug.

Is le ye zara soun chou tu. Jannat tou hum maray, ma pap key ter be yat sey beh hum lou goun kou mil jaei gey.

Neik aamal karney ka our time beh melay ga.

Doun ya ka behe mouq qablla, face to face kar sakeen gay.
God had not asked us to : KHARIJ UD DUNYA.

Werna yeh looug tou hum sub kou kharij ud dounya wal akhera karna chahtey hein.

All are good ones, all have, possibly good intentions, we must decide what is good for us.

To side opposition or to side mushoo.

I would side mushoo and try to make his hands strong. I want things to be done with peace and respect. I do not like shour sharaba of roads, or killings, and unrest in our country.

I would give chance to mushoo to do the way he wants to take our country forward, I would not put hinderances in his way of plannings. This is an honest way.

Bye sokoon
[/QUOTE]

9

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
a selfish guy like mushy shud not even be chosen to be a group leader leave alone being chosen as a khalifa....

no muslim, in his right mind, wud ever vote for him to be a khalifa....
[/QUOTE]
hay armughal ! no muslim, in his right mind, what do you mean by this?

just kidding,

long time no see!

wasalam.

10

Salaams,

I guess he (mushoo) is a muslim; as he was born muslim, in the house of a gadie nasheen.

I have not seen him doing anything against Islam.

Why do you have this feeling for your country's president?

Do you want moullanas to come or muni bebi benasier?
Reham karo jee sub per.

Key ya islam kou pehr khatra hay? Kis sey?

Keya hum sub musalman nahe hein kouch or hein?

Bye sokoon

11

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
Salaams,

.....
[/QUOTE]

My Choice is Fazlur Rehman. We all need to make sure that he gets proper training in hair-styling. He must show that he is now licensed in haircutting, hair colouring, Cooking Degs, and boy’s circumcision.

Khuda Hafiz,

P.S. Kick those MnM and MaT terrorists.

12

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
Salaams,

I guess he (mushoo) is a muslim; as he was born muslim, in the house of a gadie nasheen.

I have not seen him doing anything against Islam.

Why do you have this feeling for your country's president?

Do you want moullanas to come or muni bebi benasier?
Reham karo jee sub per.

Key ya islam kou pehr khatra hay? Kis sey?

Keya hum sub musalman nahe hein kouch or hein?

Bye sokoon
[/QUOTE]

Assalamo alaikum

It is very difficult to judge a system and a person to be Islamic if we do not study his actions carefully and then ask ourself the question if this action or series of actions are Islamic.

We need to admit that the nizam (system) in Pakistan is not an Islamic one, rather it is a secualr republic which has no place in Islam. The Islamic ruling system is called the khilafah and it has a unique structure and function. In simple, the structure is,

1) The khalifah
2) Delegated assistant/s
3) Executive assistant/s
4) Wulaat (governors)
5) Ameer of Jihad
6) The administrative departments
7) The judiciary

All of these positions are taken from the sunnah of the Prophet (saw) and constitute the system of khilafah.

Musharraf does not support this system, neither does he want to implement this system. Sister sukoon, ask yourself these questions, Is musharraf implementing all of the laws of Islam. Then why was the law for marriage changed? In Islam it is a condition that a women has a wali amr (her father) to approve the marriage, whereas the recent law changes abolished this.

In Islam you are not allowed to kill your muslim brothers nor are you allowed to assist anyone. Did not musharraf allow america to use pakistani bases to kill our muslim brothers in Afghanistan?

Does musharraf not support America in its war on Islam? Does he not allow the FBI To build 44 offices in Pakistan so that they can gather intelligence about Muslims in Pakistan?

Non of the above are Islamic and the examples can be listed one after the other.

Our support for Musharraf is not a backstab to pakistan but rather in obedience to our Rubb, Allah (swt) where he obliged the implementation of his deen in society. So our loyalty does not lie with musharraf rather it is to the one who created musharraf and all of mankind.

wassalaam

ali

13

Hi!! (mulikhan)

Actually you have very superficial knowledge about our muslims brothers. Believe it. Why they were there? almost they had made Afghanistan an arab colony? in asia.?

Do you know every oil producing country knew, for last more than 20 years that now the oil is in Asia. And their CHOUDRAHAT would finish soon.

It was not jehad in totality. Partly it was a successful attempt to get rid of all those muslims who used to be trouble makers in their respective countries against heads of states.

Secondly it was a successful attempt to not let peace prevail in Pakistan and Afghanistan, in order to not shift the source of oil from ARAB to ASIA (old USSR countries).

And they never wanted pakistan or Afghanistan or old USSR countries controlling europe ,america. So they were keeping Pakistan under fist by providing oil for free. It was a favour to curtail Pakistan's intention to make an oil pipeline from USSR countries via afghanistan to Pakistani port.

Definitely in that condition for more than 15 years Pakistan would have been getting lots of money in billions as rent of that pipe line. And since the oil on this side is much better than arab side. It would have been the center of all oil trade.

People abuse Be Nazir and Nawaz Sharef, both were trying to fix the Government in Afghanistan for this reason, no one was in love with Taliban. Our interest was peaceful afghanistan .So that we make the pipeline.

Saudia was and other arabs were against it to their guts. They offered Pakistan free oil, but ask to keep away from making pipeline. The oil saudia was giving free to pakistan had more or less same value as the possible rent of that pipeline.

There was no true islamic concept in any of their jehad or what so ever. Pakistan had already threw USSR back in 1987. Here ,there were some fights, most of it was between AFGHANS THEMSELVES WHEN ARABS ( chour uochakays of their own countries) were sent to afghanistan, in the name of jehad. And they were doing drugs business, but nothing.

Arabic governments were totally peaceful in their countries, in absence of those AKHWANULMUSLAMEENS.

Let me ask you one thing. If one pakistani is abroad, would he live in that country without valid visa? or/and if that government ask him to register, would he do it or not? put yourself as an example.

Or if they give you choice if you do not want to register, go back to your country.

Every one would return back except MUJRIMS OF PAKISTAN, those who know, that they are on wanted list and would be in jail or are going to be killed, back home, would stay behind as it is better to possibly stay alive with pakistani friends, since when they were asked to go to afghanistan from jail as a deal. It was like political assylem for them. So they are not so simple people as you think about them with so much innocence. They were killers, they were bad in their own countries too. And same they are doing in our countries.

Can you come face to face the military of their country to fight and ask them to not say anything to them ,would they let you do what ever you like.? And do you think it is fine asking some of their countrymen to favour you against those arabic countries'government or military?

Think and decide?? do not be blind folded. Be honest?

There was nothing such thing between them and jehad in true sense, it was the matter of their servivor in a foreign country, either afghanistan or pakistan; as their own countries believe in them as criminals from before, when they came to afghanistan. For sure there were some true ones and they have already returned back to their home land. I have met a few of them. They were poor when they had left their country and now millionare.How??? you tell??? you think???

Do saudia leaves any Pakistani drug dealer un killed in his country?

Or any other arabic country leaves pakistanis free to do astray what ever they like to do? do they allow pakistanis to do terroism in their country. I know a palestenean family living for many years in Karachi pakistan in Alhassan square. His family is living peacefully, they have Pakistani passports, they all speak urdu. One of their son is from computers hard ware side. Do I ever made complain ? no our muslim brothers are they, we know it. And even perveez musharaf has asked them to just register.

Is not our right to register foreigners in our countries? Then for what is our military and government when who so ever want can live in our country and do what ever they like, even they are free to kill the president of your country.

ITNA TOU PAKISTANI MUSALMANOU KO BEHAYA NAHE HOU NA CHAHE KA WOU AP KAY HEAD OF THE COUNTRY KOU kill karein or ap oun key taraf darei kareen. ay sey loug tou moulk doush mun hein, apney sounch mein. Bye sokoon

14

salaam

you have just justified your position on the afghanistan issue, what ab out the rest of my questions?

wassalaam

ali

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
Hi!! (mulikhan)

Actually you have very superficial knowledge about our muslims brothers. Believe it. Why they were there? almost they had made Afghanistan an arab colony? in asia.?

Do you know every oil producing country knew, for last more than 20 years that now the oil is in Asia. And their CHOUDRAHAT would finish soon.

It was not jehad in totality. Partly it was a successful attempt to get rid of all those muslims who used to be trouble makers in their respective countries against heads of states.

Secondly it was a successful attempt to not let peace prevail in Pakistan and Afghanistan, in order to not shift the source of oil from ARAB to ASIA (old USSR countries).

And they never wanted pakistan or Afghanistan or old USSR countries controlling europe ,america. So they were keeping Pakistan under fist by providing oil for free. It was a favour to curtail Pakistan's intention to make an oil pipeline from USSR countries via afghanistan to Pakistani port.

Definitely in that condition for more than 15 years Pakistan would have been getting lots of money in billions as rent of that pipe line. And since the oil on this side is much better than arab side. It would have been the center of all oil trade.

People abuse Be Nazir and Nawaz Sharef, both were trying to fix the Government in Afghanistan for this reason, no one was in love with Taliban. Our interest was peaceful afghanistan .So that we make the pipeline.

Saudia was and other arabs were against it to their guts. They offered Pakistan free oil, but ask to keep away from making pipeline. The oil saudia was giving free to pakistan had more or less same value as the possible rent of that pipeline.

There was no true islamic concept in any of their jehad or what so ever. Pakistan had already threw USSR back in 1987. Here ,there were some fights, most of it was between AFGHANS THEMSELVES WHEN ARABS ( chour uochakays of their own countries) were sent to afghanistan, in the name of jehad. And they were doing drugs business, but nothing.

Arabic governments were totally peaceful in their countries, in absence of those AKHWANULMUSLAMEENS.

Let me ask you one thing. If one pakistani is abroad, would he live in that country without valid visa? or/and if that government ask him to register, would he do it or not? put yourself as an example.

Or if they give you choice if you do not want to register, go back to your country.

Every one would return back except MUJRIMS OF PAKISTAN, those who know, that they are on wanted list and would be in jail or are going to be killed, back home, would stay behind as it is better to possibly stay alive with pakistani friends, since when they were asked to go to afghanistan from jail as a deal. It was like political assylem for them. So they are not so simple people as you think about them with so much innocence. They were killers, they were bad in their own countries too. And same they are doing in our countries.

Can you come face to face the military of their country to fight and ask them to not say anything to them ,would they let you do what ever you like.? And do you think it is fine asking some of their countrymen to favour you against those arabic countries'government or military?

Think and decide?? do not be blind folded. Be honest?

There was nothing such thing between them and jehad in true sense, it was the matter of their servivor in a foreign country, either afghanistan or pakistan; as their own countries believe in them as criminals from before, when they came to afghanistan. For sure there were some true ones and they have already returned back to their home land. I have met a few of them. They were poor when they had left their country and now millionare.How??? you tell??? you think???

Do saudia leaves any Pakistani drug dealer un killed in his country?

Or any other arabic country leaves pakistanis free to do astray what ever they like to do? do they allow pakistanis to do terroism in their country. I know a palestenean family living for many years in Karachi pakistan in Alhassan square. His family is living peacefully, they have Pakistani passports, they all speak urdu. One of their son is from computers hard ware side. Do I ever made complain ? no our muslim brothers are they, we know it. And even perveez musharaf has asked them to just register.

Is not our right to register foreigners in our countries? Then for what is our military and government when who so ever want can live in our country and do what ever they like, even they are free to kill the president of your country.

ITNA TOU PAKISTANI MUSALMANOU KO BEHAYA NAHE HOU NA CHAHE KA WOU AP KAY HEAD OF THE COUNTRY KOU kill karein or ap oun key taraf darei kareen. ay sey loug tou moulk doush mun hein, apney sounch mein. Bye sokoon
[/QUOTE]

15

Dear Malikhan,

Yes there is a question mark? for many things.

But our country is islamic , do we have bars?, do our men and women do not offer prayers and fast and observe all ahkame dine.?

It is better to marry without Wakeel than to pass life without marrying some one.

This kind of marriges happen in those houses where their is flaw in the training of the kids or the whole environment of the family is distorted.

In Honourable families' girls or boys do not do these kind of immoral acts, in gheneral.

What is needed; is to educate the society, make them good human beings.

Threats and forcing something would not work. Either it is from men side in sarhad or interior sind.

By the way Quran permits to even see the boy, talk and find out whether it is worth accepting the proposal or not.

Father or any one is wakil if the girl is under age. This is a religious binding.

But if the girl is big, which is the age to marry in our country, wakil is needed as moral binding not religious, at all.

If people have good family back ground they would settle every thing in the four walls of their homes, otherwise as you see.

There are families, where from generations after generations they have never heard or seen a husband even shouting on wife or visa versa . So their children are also very calm and decent.

But there are families and villages after villages and families after families that they all the time do mar peat between each other.

It is an obligation on family to bring the children well.
For that they should be educated. That is what perveez musharaf is doing. They can make laws but does it makes sense to do things right with pressure?. NEYAT PER DAROUMADAR HEI SARE ISLAM MEI HER MAAMLAY MEIN.

So he did fine, to have this law in marrige. Because some families pressurize the girls as well as boys to marry some one, they want Or if some one likes some one they run away and pass illegitimate life. Also most of the time boys family and girls family or both later kill them.

From this law,

CHUP CHOUPA KAY SHADI KARNEY WALAY BUS BENAQAB HOU JAEIN GA> OR QATAL OR JUNG O JADAL KUM HOU GA MASHREY MEI.

Shareif khandanou key tou ye problem hey he nahe.

kamenou key ye problem hei .

sharif tu iss mamley mei boultey behi nahein. oun kou koei perwah behi nahe hei.

Kamene khar waloun key larkeyyan or larkay (bad charactered) houtey hein. Not only boys and girls, ALSO married men and women have bad character.

Mashaallah more popullation is good character in pakistan. Very few are bad charactered one.

Dine kou samajna mamouli bat nahe hei. Let the society have BAhra paeit. Then cut the hands of all thieves.

Keep the men and women in behind seven curtains bad would stay bad and good stays good. It is all family back ground. It is all whether they are from ligitimate generations or not. Blood is every thing whether it is pak or najis.

Did you see on tv . all parda dar, hijjabis's khatouns(girls) in internet cafe were doing najis harkats. Not a single beperda was doing any such act.

Islamic country wou nahe hey jou loug samajhtey hein.

It is creation of islamic society, real one, every one GOD fearing , not government or khulafa fearing or fearing with punishments------no ,not at all.

Above kind of society would be like sowing the seeds of that low graded mentality, that would never ever produce fruits of nice religious MASHRA.

Creation of a society in which autometically every one is GOD fearing, every one prays in time (Dil say DANDay SAY NAHE), every one caring elders, every one speaking the truth, then at that time you can change the names of heads pf the country with religious status, such as khalifas etc etc.

Mera khayal hei kay ap sub bareh hou kar inshallah ae ssay he achhe houn ga. Koei dekhawa na hou ga. dil say achhe houn ga. Lagay rahe ye.

Yad rakh ye, kay our rasoul (P) fought almost all defensive wars ,never offensive wars. After him Hazrat abu bakar also did not fight any war to conquer any country.They used to spread islam with dialogues, so they use to change the hearts. When the time distance from Rasoul(P) and khilafat became little more they fought wars, they occupied the lands after lands. They pressurised them to accept Islam or you have to give jazya etc .The muslim conqueres could not develop (eman fe qouloube him) heart could not be changed. So this kind of muslims in arab world are there, like perhaps you know better then me.

No one from Rasoul's time or khelafat time is alive now. Responsibilities are on young generations, elders were ignorant totally, but some.

Dil say achhey bunna chaheye sub kou. JOUTAY KAY JOUR SAY KHOUCH FAEYEDA NAHE. for this you(today's young ones) become an example, honestly. others would for sure follow you. bye sokoon

Bye sokoon

16

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sokoon: *
Dear Malikhan,

Yes there is a question mark? for many things.

But our country is islamic , do we have bars?, do our men and women do not offer prayers and fast and observe all ahkame dine.?

It is better to marry without Wakeel than to pass life without marrying some one.

This kind of marriges happen in those houses where their is flaw in the training of the kids or the whole environment of the family is distorted.

In Honourable families' girls or boys do not do these kind of immoral acts, in gheneral.

What is needed; is to educate the society, make them good human beings.

Threats and forcing something would not work. Either it is from men side in sarhad or interior sind.

By the way Quran permits to even see the boy, talk and find out whether it is worth accepting the proposal or not.

Father or any one is wakil if the girl is under age. This is a religious binding.

But if the girl is big, which is the age to marry in our country, wakil is needed as moral binding not religious, at all.

If people have good family back ground they would settle every thing in the four walls of their homes, otherwise as you see.

There are families, where from generations after generations they have never heard or seen a husband even shouting on wife or visa versa . So their children are also very calm and decent.

But there are families and villages after villages and families after families that they all the time do mar peat between each other.

It is an obligation on family to bring the children well.
For that they should be educated. That is what perveez musharaf is doing. They can make laws but does it makes sense to do things right with pressure?. NEYAT PER DAROUMADAR HEI SARE ISLAM MEI HER MAAMLAY MEIN.

So he did fine, to have this law in marrige. Because some families pressurize the girls as well as boys to marry some one, they want Or if some one likes some one they run away and pass illegitimate life. Also most of the time boys family and girls family or both later kill them.

From this law,

CHUP CHOUPA KAY SHADI KARNEY WALAY BUS BENAQAB HOU JAEIN GA> OR QATAL OR JUNG O JADAL KUM HOU GA MASHREY MEI.

Shareif khandanou key tou ye problem hey he nahe.

kamenou key ye problem hei .

sharif tu iss mamley mei boultey behi nahein. oun kou koei perwah behi nahe hei.

Kamene khar waloun key larkeyyan or larkay (bad charactered) houtey hein. Not only boys and girls, ALSO married men and women have bad character.

Mashaallah more popullation is good character in pakistan. Very few are bad charactered one.

Dine kou samajna mamouli bat nahe hei. Let the society have BAhra paeit. Then cut the hands of all thieves.

Keep the men and women in behind seven curtains bad would stay bad and good stays good. It is all family back ground. It is all whether they are from ligitimate generations or not. Blood is every thing whether it is pak or najis.

Did you see on tv . all parda dar, hijjabis's khatouns(girls) in internet cafe were doing najis harkats. Not a single beperda was doing any such act.

Islamic country wou nahe hey jou loug samajhtey hein.

It is creation of islamic society, real one, every one GOD fearing , not government or khulafa fearing or fearing with punishments------no ,not at all.

Above kind of society would be like sowing the seeds of that low graded mentality, that would never ever produce fruits of nice religious MASHRA.

Creation of a society in which autometically every one is GOD fearing, every one prays in time (Dil say DANDay SAY NAHE), every one caring elders, every one speaking the truth, then at that time you can change the names of heads pf the country with religious status, such as khalifas etc etc.

Mera khayal hei kay ap sub bareh hou kar inshallah ae ssay he achhe houn ga. Koei dekhawa na hou ga. dil say achhe houn ga. Lagay rahe ye.

Yad rakh ye, kay our rasoul (P) fought almost all defensive wars ,never offensive wars. After him Hazrat abu bakar also did not fight any war to conquer any country.They used to spread islam with dialogues, so they use to change the hearts. When the time distance from Rasoul(P) and khilafat became little more they fought wars, they occupied the lands after lands. They pressurised them to accept Islam or you have to give jazya etc .The muslim conqueres could not develop (eman fe qouloube him) heart could not be changed. So this kind of muslims in arab world are there, like perhaps you know better then me.

No one from Rasoul's time or khelafat time is alive now. Responsibilities are on young generations, elders were ignorant totally, but some.

Dil say achhey bunna chaheye sub kou. JOUTAY KAY JOUR SAY KHOUCH FAEYEDA NAHE. for this you(today's young ones) become an example, honestly. others would for sure follow you. bye sokoon

Bye sokoon
[/QUOTE]

JazakAllah khair sister sukoon

I think we need to diffentiate between the people and the system. Definately the people of Pakistan love Islam. But the system does not reflect Islam neither does its constitution. The Pakistani constitution is a British one and anyone who knows the histroy of Pakistan and Qaid-e-Azam would know this as he studied in England.

In Pakistan there is a shariah court and a supreme court and the decision of the supreme court can overrule that of the sharia court. According to the sunnat of our beloved Prophet (saw) all the courts applied Islam only and there was never another higher court than it.

With regards to the mature women not needing a wali, this is not true as the Prophet (saw) said, " Any women who gets married without the permission of her guardian, her marriage will be void, her marriage will be void, her marriage will be void (narrated by Aisha).

So in the above the Prophet (saw) said "any women" and not an "immature women". Please look at the opinions of a respectable Islamic scholar like Abu hanifa or Imam malik and you would find the same answer.

wassalaam

Ali

17

Dear Malikhan,

I hope you would not mind; but kindly read carefully my replies above you would get all answers, you have raised.

We are not doing a game here who is a good debator. If it is so you are the better debator not me. But this is not the purpose of the thread.

I am very seriously trying to cross my views, through my perception, as I am pretty sure Islam is hundred percent on nature. So nature , and our conscience is the best judge,it tells us what is right and what is wrong. It is another thing we ignore it, to not accept what we do not believe in at first place.

Hazrat ayesha(R) was just 17 when our Rasoul(P) expired. She was a baby, she was not a woman, as she was not even experienced the motherhood status. And you are taking her sayings as authentic against Quran, which says for any such shahadats two men should be the witness or two ladies and one man or four ladies. How can you, even think against ahkam e allah.? Please give me this much allowance to favour GOD'S principle. Here I would only accept kalame ellahe.

Regarding shjareyah to implement, in Pakistan, I have written quite a lot
above. Please read it THANDaY DIL SAY JALDE MEI NAHE. Bye sokoon