Where is Urdu's place in Pakistani music?

After listening to a few songs from Ali Haider’s new album - predominantly Urdu, I noticed that Urdu is being reserved these days for slow-paced romantic songs.

Not that Punjabi isn’t used in slow romantic songs, but I’m not seeing Urdu being used too much in more fast-paced dance-oriented songs. Those type of songs are pretty much being dominated by bhangra.

I don’t get it - there is so little experimentation going on in the music industry as it is (aside from the rock underground movement).

And not to mention that despite so many other languages having their place in Pakistani geography, rarely does one get to see anything other than Urdu or Punjabi being used in songs. People want to hear something new in music…so why don’t artists use their brains and experiment with other languages? They don’t have to sing in those languages, but they can maybe have some clips inserted into their songs expressing other languages.

Back to Urdu, though. Seems like artists are coming back to using Urdu as the predominant language in their songs, but can’t they figure out creative ways of expressing their thoughts in Urdu with more creative music. I mean what about techno, and electronic, and new age, and jazz, etc ?

you need listeners for that kind of music. majority of music listeners in pakistan are hooked to indian music which is nothing but mix of punjabi and bad urdu. give these artists a free-hand financing and sponcerships and you'll see a lot of experiments coming out within no time. when money comes out of your own pocket, you tend to lean towards profits than experiments. ali haider did a techno album. listeners didn't appreciate it much. if it were a techno album by an indian artist, it would have topped the charts for months. just that a change coming from a pakistani artist is always difficult for listeners to accept and digest. give them some encouraging response and you'll see more and more experimental music.

PCG u have raised a few diff issues.

1) urdu used mostly in slower songs
2) bhangra
3) music ganre, experimentation etc

People get on my case when i say that Pakistani pop is in a rut. There were a few bands that tried something diff, Junoon, Fuzon for example but otherwise it is mostly the same ol same ol.

majority of the music is pretty lame, and some of ti is truly ghastly, for an example "patang baaz sajna" and whoever was that chic who sang "hot hot hot" years ago... not only lifting from buster pindexter..but arghhh..

anyways..as far as other genre go, ppl know that a formula works and they stick to it, they see someone else with a formula which is working and then they follow them..e.g. rock sounds following junoon..even though the poor Barbarians had tried their hand at it a while back and did not get acceptance.

it also depends on public accepting a diff sound..but diff sound done well. I would not buy a pakistani jazz musician just because he is jazz, but if he is jazz and good. On the other hand if public is just not into other genre.. why would someone go into that territory unless there is some chance of success there or the person is totally dedicated to the music.

the bands who are successful or were successful tried some new things in a limited area.. I forget the name of teh band but they sang sohni mahiwaal..collage i believe, very diff sound, same goes for milestones, junoon and VS.

I see tons of the new singers who may woo tons of listeners sehezaad roy, shariq rumi etc but what exactly are they offering..same ol same ol

and then there are few who are just copying the formula developed by others who have been successful

Thank you fraudz for putting all my thoughts in order - very well said!!!

Now, can you write my Aristotle papers for me?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
PCG u have raised a few diff issues.

1) urdu used mostly in slower songs
2) bhangra
3) music ganre, experimentation etc

People get on my case when i say that Pakistani pop is in a rut. There were a few bands that tried something diff, Junoon, Fuzon for example but otherwise it is mostly the same ol same ol.

**
are you in tune with latest pakistani pop [solo/groups]? only an ignorant can make such a comment. pop music in pakistan is going through its best time ever. you have taken the pain to mention junoon and fuzon. well junoon is hardly new and their quality of music has gone down dramatically. fuzon def is different. also listen to entityparadigm [eP], karavan, mizmaar, mizraab [2nd album is in the line, first album was not bad at all], rushk, MHB, and there are many more which are still emerging. all these bands have lots of potential to make it big but it takes time.
**

majority of the music is pretty lame, and some of ti is truly ghastly, for an example "patang baaz sajna" and whoever was that chic who sang "hot hot hot" years ago... not only lifting from buster pindexter..but arghhh..

**
waqt waqt ki baat hai. it clicked with the massess and was a hit. you didn't like it then too bad.
**

anyways..as far as other genre go, ppl know that a formula works and they stick to it, they see someone else with a formula which is working and then they follow them..e.g. rock sounds following junoon..even though the poor Barbarians had tried their hand at it a while back and did not get acceptance.

**
remember barbarians did all that in the late 80s when pop was hardly known in pakistan. atleast pop of their type [rock]. bring it back now and you'll see they'll break all old records.
**

it also depends on public accepting a diff sound..but diff sound done well. I would not buy a pakistani jazz musician just because he is jazz, but if he is jazz and good. On the other hand if public is just not into other genre.. why would someone go into that territory unless there is some chance of success there or the person is totally dedicated to the music.

**
its all about risk taking. as a listener, i only have 75-100RS on line but as an artist, their old career and reputation can get tarnished. rushk didn't get a sponser in pakistan and were not able to release their album os a CD. cassettes too were released in a limited number that too bcos of ziyad gular. even in india, a mere 1500 cds were released and they have a huge diversity in their music and listeners. but still calculated risks were taken.
**

the bands who are successful or were successful tried some new things in a limited area.. I forget the name of teh band but they sang sohni mahiwaal..collage i believe, very diff sound, same goes for milestones, junoon and VS.

**
collage did a whole range of experiments in their album. too bad they didn't stayed togather for a bit longer to release 2nd album. but they were hardly successfull. they were more of a 1-song-wonder band. their singles released on MCC were hit but all togather album was a medium offering. same goes for milestones. VS didn't had any competition when they came on the pop scene, same goes for junoon. they both had different sounds and were not looking upto any ready-made plateform. i'll add one more band sequencers.
**

I see tons of the new singers who may woo tons of listeners sehezaad roy, shariq rumi etc but what exactly are they offering..same ol same ol

**
what about najam, fakhir, haroon, ali zafar, sajjad ali, waqar ali, etc?
**

and then there are few who are just copying the formula developed by others who have been successful

**
thats why you have formulaes. a tried-and-tested formula. just plug it in and get the desired results.
**

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are you in tune with latest pakistani pop [solo/groups]? only an ignorant can make such a comment. pop music in pakistan is going through its best time ever. you have taken the pain to mention junoon and fuzon. well junoon is hardly new and their quality of music has gone down dramatically. fuzon def is different. also listen to entityparadigm [eP], karavan, mizmaar, mizraab [2nd album is in the line, first album was not bad at all], rushk, MHB, and there are many more which are still emerging. all these bands have lots of potential to make it big but it takes time.

You mention bands like ep, karavan, mizraab, etc - these are all ROCK bands which fall under the recent underground music movement (which is largely dominated by rock musicians). I even mentioned that this is not the part of the music industry that I'm concerned about - I'm concerned about the pop music industry - which is dominated by the likes of hadiqa, and ali haider, and ali zafar, etc.

I also think that urdu has a grand place in the recent rock underground movement, and its the ONLY place I'm seeing Urdu really being utilized in a creative manner. Unlike in pop music - and that issue Fraudz has addressed magnificently.

In fact, the story behind Rushk is a great example of the problems in paki pop. Recording companies are not too much into rock music, and they're only beginnning to pay attention to the emerging rock musicians. Isn't it a shame that Rushk had to go to India to get a release on CD, because Pakistani companies thought there was too much risk involved. And yet, awarding recording contracts to the like of Shazada Faisal, and a bunch of other bright-purple dhoti toting nitwits is NOT RISKY? Seriously, I would invest my money in Rushk over the likes of Shahzada faisal, mainly because the quality of their music is much better.

But I digress. I am just so disappointed that pop artists feel its necessary to have 75 + percent of their music in punjabi bhangra style which is no different from every other punjabi bhangra style song in order to sell their albums. And when someone does decide to use Urdu (which is the national language, if I remember correctly), then its only reserved for love ballads. They can't use Urdu for anything else?

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
**are you in tune with latest pakistani pop [solo/groups]? only an ignorant can make such a comment. pop music in pakistan is going through its best time ever. you have taken the pain to mention junoon and fuzon. well junoon is hardly new and their quality of music has gone down dramatically. fuzon def is different. also listen to entityparadigm [eP], karavan, mizmaar, mizraab [2nd album is in the line, first album was not bad at all], rushk, MHB, and there are many more which are still emerging. all these bands have lots of potential to make it big but it takes time.
*

You mention bands like ep, karavan, mizraab, etc - these are all ROCK bands which fall under the recent underground music movement (which is largely dominated by rock musicians). I even mentioned that this is not the part of the music industry that I'm concerned about - I'm concerned about the pop music industry - which is dominated by the likes of hadiqa, and ali haider, and ali zafar, etc.

**
why are you so concerned about pop music industry? you have mentioed hadiqa, ali haider ali zafar etc. had their quality fo music gone down in the recent past / present? the last i heard / read was about hadiqa's RUNG album and it was very-well welcomed by the listeners. it had evey type of song in it from bhangra-to-pop-to-rock. ali haider's been doing some experiments in the past and this is the first serious album by him after aakash and sure is not a disappoint one like jadu and mahi. ali zafar, this is only his first album and i believe his best is yet to emerge. looking at the quality of these singers and their work, i don't think there is anything to worry about. we still have the likes of najam, AJ, haroon, faakhir, abbas ali khan and many more. the best of pakistani pop is yet to come and best is always reserved for the future.
**

I also think that urdu has a grand place in the recent rock underground movement, and its the ONLY place I'm seeing Urdu really being utilized in a creative manner. Unlike in pop music - and that issue Fraudz has addressed magnificently.

**
ahmad jahanzaib, aamir saleem, najam, haroon, faakir, fariha, etc, a few to mention. they have 90% songs in urdu and that too quality urdu. you don't want everyone to come up with revolutionary songs. bcos then people will start to complain that everyone is coming up with similar stuff. whoever is doing whatever is doing according to his/her potential.
**

In fact, the story behind Rushk is a great example of the problems in paki pop. Recording companies are not too much into rock music, and they're only beginnning to pay attention to the emerging rock musicians. Isn't it a shame that Rushk had to go to India to get a release on CD, because Pakistani companies thought there was too much risk involved. And yet, awarding recording contracts to the like of Shazada Faisal, and a bunch of other bright-purple dhoti toting nitwits is NOT RISKY? Seriously, I would invest my money in Rushk over the likes of Shahzada faisal, mainly because the quality of their music is much better.

**
well album was first released in india bcos the main contributor [financing] is an indian. but he too didn't get the favour from any company for a mass release let alone pakistan where their type of music is hardly known. they should do more concerts and get some exposure. potential for their type of music in pakistan is huge. only thing is to reach it.

shahzada faisal came up with a formula album and it got sponcers and promoters. he would have failed aswell if it were a different type of album.
**

But I digress. I am just so disappointed that pop artists feel its necessary to have 75 + percent of their music in punjabi bhangra style which is no different from every other punjabi bhangra style song in order to sell their albums. And when someone does decide to use Urdu (which is the national language, if I remember correctly), then its only reserved for love ballads. They can't use Urdu for anything else?

**
yeah i'll blame abrar for all this.
urdu can be used for any type of song. it all depends on the artist how and where they want to use it.
**

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